Religion Has Maciamo proved that God doesn't exist?

Echetlaeus said:
Yes, you can believe in whatever you want as long as someone cannot disapprove that belief.
If scientific procedures have shown that this belief ain't true, then it is not wise to believe in that anymore.
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Let's get it straight. Do you believe in Santa Clause, because there is no scientific procedure disproving him?

My point is that she/he, as a human being, has the right to believe, and some people with different opinion without proof, should not fight them for what their beliefs are.
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Yes we have rights to do many stupid things, as long as we are not harming others. But this discussion is not about human rights. It is about validity of someones beliefs. The proof of every hypothesis lies on inventor. Otherwise we can believe in Godzilla or imaginary friends. It doesn't make them real, period.
 
LeBrok said:
Let's get it straight. Do you believe in Santa Clause, because there is no scientific procedure disproving him?

Yes we have rights to do many stupid things, as long as we are not harming others. But this discussion is not about human rights. It is about validity of someones beliefs. The proof of every hypothesis lies on inventor. Otherwise we can believe in Godzilla or imaginary friends. It doesn't make them real, period.
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I believe in Santa, yes.
Hopefully I will get a present next year ...

The word "proof" is very strong. In order to have it, you need to have experiments that give, always, the same results.

It is OK to call it hypothesis, but I do not like this extra verbalism.
 
What I was taught about religion

1 - There is only one God.

2 - all humans today, who pray to God , pray to the same God that the stone-age people prayed to ( and all others inbetween in human history ).

3 - Anyone who changes religions , do not believe in God as the final result of the change makes no difference ( I think they meant, One has no faith in changing a religious "club " ).
 
Sile said:
What I was taught about religion

1 - There is only one God.

2 - all humans today, who pray to God , pray to the same God that the stone-age people prayed to ( and all others inbetween in human history ).

3 - Anyone who changes religions , do not believe in God as the final result of the change makes no difference ( I think they meant, One has no faith in changing a religious "club " ).
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Do you believe what you were taught? Because it seems irreconcilable with the nature of most historical religions.
 
sparkey said:
Do you believe what you were taught? Because it seems irreconcilable with the nature of most historical religions.
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well, it has its merits

for 1 - the same God must have been around when the first humans started praying..............I cannot see that this God disappeared as other religions formed., can you?

2 - If you believe there is more than one God, let me know, we can discuss this

3 - I believe nobody sits between me and my prays to God, so yes I believe in my option 3 of the previous post............why change religions when you pray to the same God?

IMO, historical religions are purely for groupings of people, .............it was to form morality and to replace tribal communities................If these religions state that you soul goes up to God, then clearly from stone-age man, their souls went tothe same God....or do we believe otherwise?
 
Sile said:
for 1 - the same God must have been around when the first humans started praying..............I cannot see that this God disappeared as other religions formed., can you?
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To me, a god is something thought to be personable (i.e. it has associated stories and is humanlike) and supernatural (i.e. it has special powers). We could tell that one god is different from another god if they had different stories, personalities, and powers. Clearly different religions have different gods with different stories, personalities, and powers, and many religions even have multiple gods. Hence there hasn't been only one God throughout all the religions, there have been many.

Sile said:
2 - If you believe there is more than one God, let me know, we can discuss this
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I'm an atheist, but I think we can look at this through a purely anthropological lens, so my beliefs shouldn't matter too much in this conversation. Certainly many cultures, both modern and historical, would tell you that there are many gods, and plenty of other cultures would tell you that their god is different from all other gods. I'm curious about how you would reconcile this.

Sile said:
IMO, historical religions are purely for groupings of people, .............it was to form morality and to replace tribal communities................If these religions state that you soul goes up to God, then clearly from stone-age man, their souls went tothe same God....or do we believe otherwise?
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It's pretty easy to find religions that don't match that pattern, though. Buddhism doesn't say that your "soul goes up to God." Germanic paganism didn't think that everyone would meet one particular god in the afterlife. Etc.
 
sparkey said:
To me, a god is something thought to be personable (i.e. it has associated stories and is humanlike) and supernatural (i.e. it has special powers). We could tell that one god is different from another god if they had different stories, personalities, and powers. Clearly different religions have different gods with different stories, personalities, and powers, and many religions even have multiple gods. Hence there hasn't been only one God throughout all the religions, there have been many.



I'm an atheist, but I think we can look at this through a purely anthropological lens, so my beliefs shouldn't matter too much in this conversation. Certainly many cultures, both modern and historical, would tell you that there are many gods, and plenty of other cultures would tell you that their god is different from all other gods. I'm curious about how you would reconcile this.



It's pretty easy to find religions that don't match that pattern, though. Buddhism doesn't say that your "soul goes up to God." Germanic paganism didn't think that everyone would meet one particular god in the afterlife. Etc.
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I care little if one is religious or not.....I actually have many atheist friends.

On Buddhism, ..........it believes in life after death, which is why Japanese people, born Shinto religion change to buddhism for this after daeth life.

On one God or not - If you believe that there was many Gods, then the ancient religions are correct, if you believe in one God only, then they are not............I stated , I was taught there was only one God, and that God represented/s all humans for "a God" regardless of time or different religions used.
 
Sile said:
well, it has its merits

for 1 - the same God must have been around when the first humans started praying..............I cannot see that this God disappeared as other religions formed., can you?

2 - If you believe there is more than one God, let me know, we can discuss this

3 - I believe nobody sits between me and my prays to God, so yes I believe in my option 3 of the previous post............why change religions when you pray to the same God?

IMO, historical religions are purely for groupings of people, .............it was to form morality and to replace tribal communities................If these religions state that you soul goes up to God, then clearly from stone-age man, their souls went tothe same God....or do we believe otherwise?
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Jehovah, Brahma or any other god needn't have been around when humans first started praying if humans were mistaken in believing that a god existed. But in fact as far as we can tell the idea of one universal god is only somewhere between three and four thousand years old if were talking about Egyptian, Persian or Jewish monotheism, and in fact the Egyptian heretical pharoh, like the early Jews, didn't believe his god was the only god, just the only one that really mattered. And the idea found in some schools of Hinduism that all their deities are manifestations of their creator god is probably only a couple of thousand years old.

I don't see the need for a creator god if the universe has always existed. And I think that if one wants to argue in favour of deity, one has to choose between a universal creator deity or a more local entity that concerns itself with human affairs. I can't imagine a god large enough to create billions of galaxies but also small enough to care about the behaviour of individuals. And, IMO, there's not much point in believing in a universal creator deity if he's too busy creating more galaxies to bother with you.
 
Sile said:
I care little if one is religious or not.....I actually have many atheist friends.

On Buddhism, ..........it believes in life after death, which is why Japanese people, born Shinto religion change to buddhism for this after daeth life.

On one God or not - If you believe that there was many Gods, then the ancient religions are correct, if you believe in one God only, then they are not............I stated , I was taught there was only one God, and that God represented/s all humans for "a God" regardless of time or different religions used.
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I was taught to believe in Santa Claus when I was young. That doesn't prove that Santa Claus exists anywhere outside the human mind. What I think it proves is that humans are capable of believing in immortal, magical beings that don't actually exist.
 
Aberdeen said:
I was taught to believe in Santa Claus when I was young. That doesn't prove that Santa Claus exists anywhere outside the human mind. What I think it proves is that humans are capable of believing in immortal, magical beings that don't actually exist.
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The Santa Claus we know today was based off of a saint named St. Nicholas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas
 
Aberdeen said:
Jehovah, Brahma or any other god needn't have been around when humans first started praying if humans were mistaken in believing that a god existed. But in fact as far as we can tell the idea of one universal god is only somewhere between three and four thousand years old if were talking about Egyptian, Persian or Jewish monotheism, and in fact the Egyptian heretical pharoh, like the early Jews, didn't believe his god was the only god, just the only one that really mattered. And the idea found in some schools of Hinduism that all their deities are manifestations of their creator god is probably only a couple of thousand years old.

I don't see the need for a creator god if the universe has always existed. And I think that if one wants to argue in favour of deity, one has to choose between a universal creator deity or a more local entity that concerns itself with human affairs. I can't imagine a god large enough to create billions of galaxies but also small enough to care about the behaviour of individuals. And, IMO, there's not much point in believing in a universal creator deity if he's too busy creating more galaxies to bother with you.
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I am not saying anything about any creation of anything........I am saying that there was only one god about faith, and that one god was prayed to by all. If you think there is more than 1 god, good for you I care little. If you say there was no god, I care little again.

None of my business on if you believe in a faith or not.

The only thing I am saying is........IF one believes in only 1 God, then that one God was prayed to by all humans since they began worshipping.
 
Sile said:
I am not saying anything about any creation of anything........I am saying that there was only one god about faith, and that one god was prayed to by all. If you think there is more than 1 god, good for you I care little. If you say there was no god, I care little again.

None of my business on if you believe in a faith or not.

The only thing I am saying is........IF one believes in only 1 God, then that one God was prayed to by all humans since they began worshipping.
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Well, Muslims and modern Jews worship a single god who they believe is the only god that ever existed, unlike earlier Jews who saw their god as the first among gods and unlike most Christians, who see their god as both one and threefold. The pharoh who tried to introduce monotheism to Egypt saw his god, who he eventually came to see as the only god, as a sun disc. Zoroastrians see their one god as illuminating wisdom that is not immanent in this world but is instead represented by entities that are similar to the Christian concept of angels. The Vaishnavism branch of Hinduism sees Vishnu as the one god who is represented by ten avatars, including Rama and Krishna. These different concepts of one god are clearly not all the same, but if you want to believe that these different groups with very different ideas about there being only one god are worshipping the same deity, fine. That doesn't prove that any of these versions of the one god actually exist.
 
Twilight said:
The Santa Claus we know today was based off of a saint named St. Nicholas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas
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Ah, yes, the Turkish saint who wears a red suit and travels through the sky on a sled pulled by reindeer. As Turkish saints generally do.

I suspect that the legend of Saint Nicholas was created in an attempt to christianize some northern European concept of a god of the winter solstice.
 
Aberdeen said:
Ah, yes, the Turkish saint who wears a red suit and travels through the sky on a sled pulled by reindeer. As Turkish saints generally do.

I suspect that the legend of Saint Nicholas was created in an attempt to christianize some northern European concept of a god of the winter solstice.
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St. Nicholas was Greek, not Turkish though. And earlier portraits of him show him being far from a northwestern European with pink cheeks, rather, more like a person from the Mediterranean basin.
 
John Doe said:
St. Nicholas was Greek, not Turkish though. And earlier portraits of him show him being far from a northwestern European with pink cheeks, rather, more like a person from the Mediterranean basin.
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Okay, Saint Nicholas was a Greek living in what is now Turkey, before the Turks showed up, so my choice of words wasn't precise enough. That doesn't explain the reindeer or the magical god-like aspects of the modern Santa Claus. My point was that millions of children believe in the magical powers of Santa Claus, just as millions of people believe in the magical powers of other gods.

And, btw, eastern Mediterranean type people such as Greeks aren't northwestern Europeans, they're southeastern Europeans.
 
Aberdeen said:
My point was that millions of children believe in the magical powers of Santa Claus,
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I was never beliving in that, neither when adult people try to convinced me.
When I was 3 or 4, I saw a Santa, who had a female legs and shoes :LOL:
This fact didn't even disprooved Santa in my eyes, because before that fact I was never beliving in him.

But I always was beliving in God. Not because someone taught me that, but because it is logical.

Santa never was logical or real for me.

God always was.

And even in theory, existence of God-Absolute who is beyond the Creation is
much more coplicated thing than some Santa Claus and his elves, which are
seem do be a products of Disney's cartoons rather than personal reasonable
and scholastic (with hugely build theological knowledge) Neccesery Being.

So I must say, that trying to compare god's existence to stupid teaching
of stupid parents who want make their children stupid - is nonsensical. :rolleyes:
 
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