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Apart from the change in attitude towards the loyalty to the state, I don't see how it could have affected the Italian character.
How can you judge a nation's talent for military strategy or discipline if they are fighting between themselves ?
As for fighting Austro-Hungary, Italy never won a single battle, even when they were fighting at 10 against one . It is either the Prussians and especially the French (thanks to Napoleon III's dream of unifying Italy) who defeated the Austrians and gave Austrian possessions to Piedmont.
The same happened in WWII. Italy lost on every front. They lost in Greece and needed to be rescued by the Germans. They lost in Egypt against the Brits and needed to be rescued by the Germans. Etcetera.
What about immigration?
If Rome was the economic super power of its day it would have been a mecca for economic migrates, just as the US is today.
Also is there not a massive north/south divide in culture and genetics in Italy?
The Papacy did nothing PRACTICAL about slavery.hes racist against southern euros and predjudice against the Catholic church. Yes Popes and the papal states did do bad things but they did try and hold themselves to a higher standard. While all of western Europe was enslaving Africans for economic benefit the papacy issued multiple bulls condemning it.
The Papacy did nothing PRACTICAL about slavery.
The Catholic church did nothing to stop the purchase of young Muslim girls as servants for rich Italian households.
Italy is a mess largely because the Papal lands in central Italy prevented unity for over a thousand years.
The Papacy set a bad example of hypocrisy and corruption and amorality to the whole of Italy.
No wonder a Protestant Reformation took place.
The Papacy did nothing PRACTICAL about slavery.
The Catholic church did nothing to stop the purchase of young Muslim girls as servants for rich Italian households.
Italy is a mess largely because the Papal lands in central Italy prevented unity for over a thousand years.
The Papacy set a bad example of hypocrisy and corruption and amorality to the whole of Italy.
No wonder a Protestant Reformation took place.
It is hard to side with someone who responds to other's point of view with his customary "It's ridiculous!".Ed. @Silkyslovan...you're wasting your time, I'm afraid. This is not like having a reasoned, nuanced debate with someone with an academic background. This is mud wrestling with bigots-it's demeaning just acknowledging their comments.
I wondered how long it would be before you showed up...predictably, any time Italians are mentioned, you can be counted on to add your superficial, denigrating comments.
I could write a book pointing out the gross simplifications and fundamental misunderstanding of Italian history, the history of the papacy and the history of Christianity, including Protestantism revealed by your posts...but this isn't the place. Besides, the books have been written; you just haven't read them. Just enroll in some history courses so you have some basic understanding of the topic.
Ed. @Silkyslovan...you're wasting your time, I'm afraid. This is not like having a reasoned, nuanced debate with someone with an academic background. This is mud wrestling with bigots-it's demeaning just acknowledging their comments.
Hahahahahaha
Funny thread. What can I say? The catholic church completely f*cked up the Italians and turned them in to Orientals. Do not forget that Christianity was born in the Middle East.
Just compare the Roman myths with the Christian ones. Bring Paganism back please!
Exactly this. Being Roman was something you could become and many were drawn to Rome. Many Romans were descended from some-one who had came as an immigrant and Rome welcomed immigrants, even needed them just to keep the city going. It was truly a cosmopolitan city, and everything and everyone got tossed into a big pot, stirred round and came out Roman.Being Roman was never bound to ethnicity, being Roman was a way of life, being a citizen of Rome and conforming to Rome, therefore you had Italian Romans, Greek Romans, Gaullic Romans, British Romans, Berber Romans, Jewish Romans, Egyptian Romans, Arab Romans, Syriac Romans, Anatolian Romans etc etc. The story goes that at it's earliest days, Rome was a safe haven for the outcasts of society, the outsiders, further emphasizing Rome's diverse origin, Italians were simply one of many ethnic groups inside this multi-ethnic empire, however what tied them all together was conformity to Rome, cultural, linguistic and by allegiance.
Exactly this. Being Roman was something you could become and many were drawn to Rome. Many Romans were descended from some-one who had came there as an immigrant and Rome welcomed immigrants, even needed them just to keep the city going. It was truly a cosmopolitan city, and everything and everyone got tossed into a big pot, stirred round and came out Roman.
I still blame the barbarians for the collapse, giving them too much power and freedom. Making commanders in the army from barbarian slaves etc.
Yes..but we can add to this other reasons also I think.I still blame the barbarians for the collapse, giving them too much power and freedom. Making commanders in the army from barbarian slaves etc.
Yes..but we can add to this other reasons also I think.
Such as financial problems, helped along by constant wars.
Decrease in slave labour due to halt in expansion [ Rome relied heavily on slave labour]
Political instability, civil war and corruption within the government.
And the division of the empire into West and East, which did ultimately lead to the two halves drifting somewhat apart. It also left the Western half weaker I feel and more vulnerable to attack.
Add all these to-gether and I think we get a fuller picture for Romes final collapse.
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