Religion How do Religions Impose their Beliefs and Cause Harm?

[strongvoicesforward]

Many people think that when it comes to religions one should take the "live and let live" philosophy. If they want to believe in that stuff, then let them believe in it.

The only problem is, aggressive proselytising religions do not have the "live and let live" motto. They seek to impose their beliefs on others when they can and then go to great lengths to convince others or governments when they can`t. In the process they can and do DO harm.

One example is that some religious orgs have 'therapies' designed to keep their children from becoming gay. These so called 'counselors' think they do not need a license for their 'therapies' because they think it is protected under the First Amendment.

What is the message to children when parents either haul their children in for counceling or needle them into it by harping on going because they fear their children may be gay or are gay and that their parents and their religion view it as a sickness which can be cured through therapy?

I think it is harmful for a parent or religion to insinuate someone is 'sick' and deserving of 'therapy' just because they are gay. To suggest so to a child is heartless, cold, misguided, and hurtful.

Take a second to read this: Preventing and Curing the Gay Amongst Us.

 

[Jack]

I think religions cause harm just by being present, religion offers the laymen of society an easy answer to what life is about, instead of allowing folk to question exsistence.

 

[Hyde_is_my_anti-drug]

Exodus Ministry is appalling for many reasons.
The children have NO SAY whether or not they get hauled off to it or not. And just because a boy is effeminate or a girl is masculine does NOT mean they are gay. It is not so simple.
Can you imagine the damage being done? Treating these children as though they are invalids that need to be "cured" is so wrong. Convincing these children that they are sick when there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with them. That is so wrong, why can't people see how awful it is? Think about the mental and emotional damage that can be done by telling a child they're ill just because they like to play with dolls instead of toy soldiers, that they are sick just for being the way they are.
Homosexuality is not a disease that you can catch and then have cured.
I wonder how straights would feel if gays started making programs to "help get them out of the heterosexual lifestyle" or to "help cure them of heterosexuality" :wary:

And on a religion only note: for people who teach "do unto others as you want done unto you" they sure can be cruel. And for people who teach love and tolerance above all they sure can be pretty intolerant of others and unloving themselves.
Actually, just this weekend my own grandmother witnessed to me. Trying to "help get me back onto the path of light" Imposing one's views on others is not okay and it is painful for those you're trying to bully into "loving God"

 

[Mycernius]

I think one of the worst for doing this are the Scientologists. I was approached by one in Birmingham last year. They do not tell you who there are, just ask you if you are suffering from stress. I thought she was from a health club or something, so when she offered me a stress test I said yes, hoping for a freebie. I went into their meeting hall and as soon as I went into their reception area I realised who they were, as the bookshelfs were full of L.Ron Hubbards Dianetics. Lets just say I has a little fun with the lady who wanted to stress test me and put her right (probably not the right word) on Scientology. Never did get the stress test, although I think she probably had one after I left.
What I do object is the way that they didn't even say who they were and what they represented. JWs, Mormons and Hare Krishnas (Ilike Hare Krishnas, they are always so upbeat) will all say who they are so you can at least say no. I find the scientology cult a particularly obnoxious one and how their 'Therapies' are supposed to help you, but end up bleeding more and more money out of you.

 

[Mitsuo]

Well, I don't have a lot of personal problems with religion. Because they do help people through hard times, and so on. But I do have problems with them, when they ask you what religion you are, you tell them, but they don't care, and they try to convert you anyway. I have a friend who is a strong believer in the bible, so when I told him I wasn't baptized he said, Im sorry, I will pray for you.
Yeah, I was pretty mad. I mean, does he think that he's better than me. Because he might as well have said that he was. A lot of religious folk, not all, but a lot, can be very condescending. Most have no respect for others, when that's all they preach. They don't practice what they preach, and it's annoying.
Most people are born into a religion, it's a brainwashing. Most kids don't have the ability to think for themselves and decide whether or not they should even have a religion. I was fortunate enough to decide and figure it all out on my own. My family is very religiously diverse. My Dad's Buddhist, the rest of my family are just christains that don't have a specific religion, more spiritual. But then I have the extended family which are Catholic, Mormon, Agnostics, Buddhist, and other christian faiths. I also have a jewish cousin. But the thing is, we don't put each other down, we listen, and we don't try to convert each other. We all respect each others religions.

 

[Ma Cherie]

In my humble opinion, when religious folks try to convert people to their religion, they don't understand that they're causing harm. Even though in reality, they may be hurting a person more than helping them. I'm going to give another personal experience.
When I used to attend church I was force to go, but my mother somehow believed this would benefit me in the long run (which it didn't). Whatever problems I had she would advise me to go to church, etc. But this didn't help me at all. I felt that I wasn't getting the help I wanted. I wanted to talk about my problems to someone, but the people at the church made me feel that I wasn't doing something right (almost implying that I deserved what was happening to me).
My point, the people at the church I used to attend believed that my problems needed to be solved by going to church and praying, but this doesn't really get to root of the problem and when the cause of the problem is not fixed, things usually get worse. So I wouldn't say that religions cause harm, it just doesn't help make things better at times.

 

[Hyde_is_my_anti-drug]

I don't think ALL religions 'cause harm, but dogmatic close-minded ones do. It is hurtful to be preached at night and day by people saying that you're a sinner on a fast track to hell if you don't "see the light." That is hurtful. Them blaming all your misfortunes on your beliefs or "lifestyle" is hurtful. Forcing one's beliefs onto another is hurtful.

I was born into a church, a Reformed Baptist Church no less. Every aspect of my life was controlled by the church. I was convinced from the moment I could talk that I was a born sinner and that I could do NO good without the Light of Jesus. That is not a healthy thought to be drilling into a child, that they aren't worth s**t unless they "believe." That is hurtful to the children, my brothers and I are living proof of it (especially my older brother). The church controlled everything about who I was. I had to were skirts that came at least 6 inches below the knee, I could not wear sleeveless shirts, and because I was born female I was never to asks questions of the Ministers. Women weren't allowed to so much as ask questions.
I realize that I was raised in an extreme setting but Christianity was very hurtful to me. For years of my life I was forced to burry my true self inside a God Fearing Shell. I feel much happier now then I did then because I am me not someone else's idea of me.
Children born into the church should be given the freedom to choose. Everyone should be free to choose and not have a religion forced onto them. Forcing religion onto others is wrong and harmful.

 

[Thor]

Organized religions drill their propaganda into your skull. It can be islam, christianity, catholicism, or judaism. They are going to have the one true path to happiness, and the only way you can get it is by praying/going to church. I was born into that setting, and I was never really accepted by anyone in my town because I was the third grader who didn't believe in god. My town isn't exactly small, but the word gets around fast enough. Do you like being socially rejected because you chose not to blindly follow a faith that people shoved down your throat?

How about all the therapists that claim to rid teenagers, and kids of homosexuality! It's not a goddamn disease, and many ignorant people believe it is. They think it's wrong to be homosexual, and it isn't wrong(Obviously). Why would you harm people like that? They want you to be heterosexual.

 

[No-name]

Organized religions drill their propaganda into your skull. It can be islam, christianity, catholicism, or judaism.

I would appologize for your town for what they did to a third grader because it was wrong, but I don't really know enough about it. In spite of people's best intentions, kids get hurt. I will say such treatment is against the teachings of my particular religion and it is unethical and cruel to treat children is such a manner.

Exactly HOW do organized religions do this? Last time I checked church membership was voluntary. And although I might believe differently than you, all paths of happiness are legal in our country. (except for the illegal chemical and certain behavioral ones.) As a young adult, you are free to choose as you like. Search out your own path with sincerity and for a town cruel enough to ostracize a third grader, shake the dust off your shoes and ignore them.

I grew up as one of a very few asians in an almost entirely latino neighborhood. At some point I lost the desire to conform to others expectations and it was liberating.

 

[No-name]

Many people think that when it comes to religions one should take the "live and let live" philosophy. If they want to believe in that stuff, then let them believe in it.
The only problem is, aggressive proselytising religions do not have the "live and let live" motto. They seek to impose their beliefs on others when they can and then go to great lengths to convince others or governments when they can`t. In the process they can and do DO harm.

I must admit that my initial presence on this thread was not as sincere as I would hope. I was so intent on simply reacting to SVF, that I missed the most important point.

I can see the hurt and anger caused by otherwise "good" people. Some are acting out of sincere and heartfelt good intentions, but some less so. It makes no difference to someone dealing with a lifetime of pain, separation, and resentment this can cause. My intention before I began typing was to ask if athiests and vegetarians who aggresively prosletyse belong in this category, but I believe this is not the point here. And it might just add to the injustice that has been done to people-- mostly children-- in the name of God and in the name of religion. The hurt is real. The charges are largely justifed, and I can say nothing to lessen the impact or to change that. It is my hope that you can go beyond what has been taught in Christianity (...as it is the only religion I can remotely speak of) and look at the deeper message of forgiveness and reconciliation of Christ instead. I hope you find peace.

I appologize. Hopefully next time I will read more closely.

 

[No-name]

SVF--- the link in post #1 doesn't work.

 

[strongvoicesforward]

Religions cause harm by often making them think that God is a personal God that talks to people. Some people just can`t understand that that internal voice is not God telling them to "jump" or "kill" someone, but their own misguided voice built upon stories of fiction where God is said to be talking to others, for example like in the Bible where a father was going to make his son the sacrificial lamb.

Hey, if God talked to him, telling him to kill someone, why shouldn`t God be talking to people now? Sadly, the innocents near these deranged people suffer the cosequences of all these God talking fantasy stories that have been drilled into people, usually starting at a young age.

That`s what happened to 23 yr old Philip Badowski of Tennessee last year on November 10. He told police he got a call from God ordering him to kill his parents and then de-limb them with a chainsaw. Why should he resist God`s order? Who is he, but a mere mortal to question what God has told him to do?

Scary when people think their God talks to them and they wish to please them by following their orders. Perhaps it could be different if religions were not filled with the bloody deeds of their gods and their generals. After all, many look to the scriptures as a guide and model for their life.

 

[Reiku]

Okay, I'll just come out and say it: Equality is bullshit.

We've never had it, and we never will--it's simply not in our nature. Yes, the whole "don't discriminate/everybody's equal/peace and love, pass the bong" is a sweet, orange sunshine-y, utopian idea--but like most utopian ideas, it's neither achievable nor sustainable nor quite what it's cracked up to be.

Religion can do harm, lack of religion can do harm--saying "You guys are wrong, we're all gonna' do it my way now." can definitely do harm, and usually does.

The whole "Religion is bad, get rid of it." thing is just like all the other "X is bad, get rid of it." intolorance justifications, including "Intolorance is bad, get rid of it."

If you were truly tolerant, you wouln't give a sh*t what people do--and would that really be a good thing?

And while we're on the subject, how do we know god isn't really speaking to these people? Because we don't believe it? What makes our beliefs any more valid than theirs?

"The fact that we're right!" A chourus of deluded idiots responds... :relief:

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

Religions cause harm by often making them think that God is a personal God that talks to people.

Hi, SVF! Aren't you referring to monotheistic religions in general, and the Christian/Muslim/Judaic tradition in particular? Or do you really mean ALL religion? I ask, because as I understand it the Buddha did not speak about any gods, and in the world view of his original teachings, gods are irrelevant, even if they should exist. I'm sure there are other examples like that.

 

[Ma Cherie]

This is probably posted in the wrong thread, but I must say it. I'm getting annoyed by some of these anti-relgion threads. I'm sorry, but this is just how I feel. I think we all know by now how most people in this forum feel towards religion. It doesn't seem like some of us has shown any tolerance towards someone else's religious beliefs.
I have my reservations about relgion, but I wouldn't belittle someone for theirs. What would really help if some of the emotional feelings with relgion would disappear, I know it's hard, but I think it would help. If we can just discuss religion without getting emotional about it, then we can have a civil discussion without turning into a heated debate.
:bluush:

 

[Mars Man]

You are right on the mark there Ma Cherie !!

 

[strongvoicesforward]

Hi Ma Cherie,

Glad to see and know you have been visiting some of my threads on the topic of religion. However, I do have to disagree with what you wrote below. Let me explain why after your quotes.

I'm getting annoyed by some of these anti-relgion threads.[/quotes]

Some topics are liked by others and some are not liked by others. You use the word "antii-religion," while and and others would use the words "exposure, prosecution, critical thinking, etc," to highlight why we take issues with superstitions that harm dressed in dogmatic format.

I think we all know by now how most people in this forum feel towards religion.

Many people have not voiced their opinion on the topic. I don`t know how they feel. Do you? Besides, the forum is not static in its membership. New people are joining all the time. Let them have the benefit to see the points being made and the discussion continue to develope.

It doesn't seem like some of us has shown any tolerance towards someone else's religious beliefs.

What do you mean? Are you saying just being critical of and exposing something means one is not being tolerant -- that everyone has to tip-toe around peoples` differing ideas and standards of sensitivities. I haven`t asked that threads pro to the Christian message not be allowed, have I? To me, trying to shut up the discussion on a pro-Christian message would be "intolerant." On the other hand, some have shown intolerance to threads that have strongly taken issue with religion or Christianity, hinting in some round about way that they should be closed or not allowed. That is intolerance! when one seeks to close down a thread and extinguish opposition.

I for one have never used expletives or pajoratives at forum members in these heated discussions. I have never screamed at them to "shut up." I engage them. Sure, I have used some witticisms, satire, and parody from time to time, but hey, we are all mature enough to take a humorous jab from time to time. Surely, my witticisms have not been any worse than something like George Carlin or other comedians have imparted to their audiences and I would think the internet should even show a little more freedom than public venues in the area of speech.

I have my reservations about relgion, but I would belittle someone for theirs. What would really help if some of the emotional feelings with relgion would disappear, I know it's hard, but I think it would help. If we can just discuss religion without getting emotional about it, then we can have a civil discussion without turning into a heated debate.
:bluush:

What is wrong with a heated debates so long as personal attacks laced with expletives and pajoratives are not thrown at each other? We are not Vulcans! Emotions are quite fine so long as they are targeted on the topic and not channeled into ad hominem arguments.

Looking around at some other threads, you will see some discussions almost devoid of emotion. Quite frankly, without naming them, I find those kinds very dry and a chore to read through. But, some enjoy that style and I say fine -- if they do, and you do, then those should be the ones that are clicked on to be read. But, I suspect many have found my style of discussion and debate a fun thing to listen in on. My threads have enjoyed a large amount of hit traffic. Obviously more than just myself and the few participants have decided to keep tuning in to see what is being said next.

I welcome them like I do you. Hope you keep coming back.

 

[strongvoicesforward]

You are right on the mark there Ma Cherie !!

I disagree, MM. See reply to Ma Cherie above.

However, I do find it interesting and quite telling that you keep visiting my threads. Those I don`t value I never feel the need to waste my time with in visiting. Do you?

 

[strongvoicesforward]

Hi, SVF! Aren't you referring to monotheistic religions in general, and the Christian/Muslim/Judaic tradition in particular? Or do you really mean ALL religion? I ask, because as I understand it the Buddha did not speak about any gods, and in the world view of his original teachings, gods are irrelevant, even if they should exist. I'm sure there are other examples like that.

Hi Mikawa,

Interesting point and a nice breeze of fresh air you let creap in here.

I mean any dogmatic religion with a set of rules codified in such a way that pertains to have some insight or message from God without any proof. When I say religions, it can also be meant to be superstitions that are focused on pleasing a god or gods or preventing harm from them or other forces, or currying favor with them, either in this life or the afterlife.

Up until now, and for the most part, I have and do focus on Christianity, just because it is the one I am most familiar with. However, I will also focus on others as time passes. And, the thread is by all means open to anyone who wants to comment on the harms committed by any religions. It doesn`t matter if it is monotheistic or not.

I am not discriminating against any of the dogmatic religions we find in our world. I guess we could say, "SVF is a non discriminating critic when it comes to exposing fraudulant claims in the religious world."

Bhuddism. Hmmm.... Very slippery. Reminds me of trying to catch carp in a wading pool with one hand. Hard to get a hold on and after trying it all day in the sun, I get a headache. lol.

Bhuddism is not off limits.

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

I mean any dogmatic religion with a set of rules codified in such a way that pertains to have some insight or message from God without any proof.

The Bhudda never claimed to have any insight or messages from God. He meditated and starved himself, etc., in the search for answers. It's interesting, because he "earned" the answers to the questions he found. He was not handed the answers on from on high. Or so tradition holds, anyway.

You can argue that he had no "proof" of his claims, but he basically said, "What is is, whether you believe it or not. What happens to you is a product of your own actions." And that is a HUGE paraphrase, so I aplogize to anyone who finds that too simplistic.