How important are national/ethnic looks to you?

[iapetoc]

I guess so!



It depends on your definition of the word 'culture'. Of course, if your definition says that it needs to be developed by an ethnicity [which we btw just discussed here, is in itself hard to define!], then people in the USA lost all their culture and didn't develope any new culture from the beginning they lost their ethnical bounds to Europe. A lot of Americans, especially in the South, can't tell which ethnicity they actually belong to, and simply refer to themselves as 'Americans', see here:


In that case you would have to say that Country Music is no real music, because it wasn't developed by a certain ethnicity. Sqaure Dance is no real dance, because it wasn't devloped by an ethnicity. The 'Star-Sprangled Banner' is no real anthem, 'Yankee Doodle' is no nursery rhyme, jeans are no cloths, BBQ-Sauce is no sauce, Louisiana shrimp stew is no serious meal etc...

Germany is not a good example, because it really is the least cultured nation of Europe. Not that it doesn't show any culture, but the specific identity is widely gone, especially in Northern Germany, it is somewhat different in, for example, Bavaria.
There is no folk dance when you go to Northern German feast. Traditional meals, except for fast food like Bratwurst, are usually avoided. There is not a single song except for one nursery rhyme ("Alle meine Entchen"), all Germans from all parts and from young to old could sing etc...
So I think it's more than hypocritical of Rammstein to accuse Americans of having no culture. BTW, where did they actually think their kind of music was invented?

about america, it created ethbicities,
ethnicities is law of Nature, is the 'create groups' animal law,
ethnicities in Usa are the pensylvanian dutch (amies quakers etc)
ethnicity is the missisipi culture with river boats poker and blues (loats of rythm blues) the Norleans culture
ethnicity is the texan cow-boy,
the Alaska gold rush immigrants,
etc as you see ethnicity is something that created by humans and their tend to create groups,

ramstein accuse the flat of ethnicity and not america
ramstein are saying that slowly we loose our identity and we become all 'americans' not USAer's but Americans,

ramstein are accusing the global culture,
another could be we are all italians (pizza every corner)
my nephew is half week pizza eating but not like a good italian makes it, but how an industry does (super market frozzen pizza, modern days consuming mania)
or we all live in china (chinese food everywhere, chinese parts every where, a world made in china)

if I watch tv at the 10 advertisement the 8 are burgers, cola, whiskey, banks, cars, coffee or tea
the 'american dream' (not the USA notice the difference)
(if i buy the shoes that Ronaldo wears, I will be better player???)
(my father played ball with rags and he was 10 times better than me who had a famous athletic shoe)
while if buy something and look inside i see (made in china CE ####)
and if i go out for food i eat Greek souvlaki (yeahhh) or burger or pizza or chinese,
wow the same that someones is eating even in africa,
what happened the other good greek delicacies? (I live in greece)

no ethnicity means flatness of civilization,
the wrong is when we place ethnicity above humans,

now about north germany I never been or lived, but surely there is something that you haven't see,
the 'tsipoyro' case is not the drink, but the secret is what follows the production,
preparations, gathering, fun, fair, it is not the tsipouro that makes it but the people who are happy when they produce it. so next time i drink i remember how people make it.
after that is just an alcohol drink, but when i drink it i remember the fun,
it is not the alcohol that makes the spirit,

I am surely that there is also something there, search in how people think, how people live, what makes them happy, and gathers them and have fun, compare it with 1900 and before,


ethnicity is when you are lost to remember your fathers and what they did,
to make what he did 1 or 2 times per year so not to lose your ID.

just 1 day wear the clothes of your grand father and look at the mirror,
it is the most simple to understand ethnicity,

ethnicity is when i drink the tea sideritis (τσαι βουνισιο= mountain tea) that my grand father drink and i looked at him as kid, cause ultil 12 was not given to kids, and gather it by hand, leaf to leaf, flower by flower, and not a tea (trade mark) cause tv say so.

 

[Mzungu mchagga]

@iapetoc

It is clear that commercial and industrially mass-produced products such as Coca-Cola or frozen pizza don't have the same cultural value as individually home made products. Mass-production was more or less invented in the Anglican sphere, mainly USA. That is why many people come with the wrong conclusion that America as such has no culture. Supported by the fact that America is not grounded on a specific ethnicity and it's (European) history is not as old as history in Europe, many people try to find the reason in these arguments. Seriously, this is a prejudice!

With comparison to Northern Germany, of course you can find culture here, too! Yes, there are even living open-air museums, medieval fairs etc... But from what I could observe, culture in Germany is not as lived as in most other European countries on a daily basis. Or even at holyday celebrations such as christmas I sometimes have the feeling that procedures are much more relaxed than in other countries. And because Germany is also very urbanized, there is also a naturally lower percentage of people who still produce their own food, beverages, clothes in comparison to Southern and Eastern Europe and so on. In fact, living style here is very industrialized, and the reason that people here are just slightly slimmer than Americans is due to the fact that you can't get by car everywhere and we have more stairs to walk. So I think it's hypocritical of many Germans to blame Americans for having no culture, while they themselves have nothing more to offer against it.

 

[Riccardo]

An interesting question would be, democratically speaking in regards to the concept of nationality - would you allow a people to ceced from a nation if they overwhelmingly voted for it ( say over 85%) .....example, would you let piedmont secede to form its own nation or would you support the Italian army to smash these people and keep them under Italy. The answer will dictate if someone is truly democratic or not.
Might be interesting to see peoples opinion on this

I don't care so much about the concept of nation, neither about the concept of "patria". It interesting and it is right to talk about differences, because they exist obviously, but I see the history as a whole, and in my opinion there are no nationalities, no boadres, no ethnicities. Those ideas exist just because they're in perpetual evolution. Italy exists only because it is the result of many cultures/ethnicities/peoples melting, and so other countries. Now we live in an open world, as I said, because we can easily communicate, we can keep in touch and feel closer to foreign people living abroad than to our neighbours.
It is difficult to acept, because the human nature always pushes to fight, to conserve, to identify itself with certain values...But the truth is that it is no-sense, because boarders, nationalities, countries, are all human conventions. The real boaders are psychological. That's why I believe in a real United Europe (in the differences) as a first step for our continent.
What is fundamental to me? We don't have to make a mistake: not everything is relative. There should be some values that must be recognized: freedom of thought, respect of human rights, reciprocity. Those are the only things for what I would fight for. I would never fight for patriotic reasons or for Piedmont or for something like this. I'm not stupid, I know I'm idealist in my way of thinking, and I know that what I say is a dream, but it is the mirror of my feelings about this issue.
So Piedmont secede? Well, I would think that Piemontesi (people from Piedmont) are regressing, eheh.

 

[Canek]

Today Latin America is more racist places in the world.

The reality of Latin American countries remained that of a mestizo, indigenous and black majority, which national identity could not be founded on the ideal of a white population. It is in this context that the ideology of mestizaje emerges as national identity in many countries, as was the case of Colombia, Ecuador, Mexico, etc.. But from the basis of a racial hierarchy in which the ideal, unattainable the majority, being white and European phenotypic traits, although socially accepted to be mestizo.


In short, the discourse of American identity is based on the complementarity of three ideas: miscegenation, discrimination and whitening. Miscegenation as the only way to the unattainable ideal of being white, always latent discrimination and denied, and bleaching as ratification of the supreme value of being white.


Therefore, Latin American racism is associated with the physical aspect, taking into account the color and appearance. But it's not racism that is expressed by a clearly differentiated target group to another non-white. It is a system of discrimination based on the relative difference of skin color and appearance, which also has the level of income and whether you're male or female. In some contexts a person can become an agent and promoter of racism in others it may be the victim, why is it so difficult to identify and recognize.

put proof or retract... that's of course a european source, i bet.


there's no more racism in america than in europe, we do not have an ameriapedia...

race does not matter in latin america. we are all the same with the same rights and opportunities.

 

[Carlitos]

^^

The Latin-American racialism is associated with the physical aspect, there is born in mind the color of the skin and the physical aspect. But, it is not a racialism that expresses itself on the part of a group clearly differentiated like white towards another not target. It is a system of discrimination based on the relative difference of the color of the skin and the physical aspect, in which also it counts the level of revenue and if you are a man or woman. In a few contexts a person can turn into agent promoter of the racialism and in others she can be the victim, for it it is so difficult to identify and to recognize.

 

[Reinaert]

@japetoc

This song from Rammstein is irony, meant sarcastically, a joke.

This is from Randy Newman, somewhat the same irony.

Ok, another word.. SATIRE :grin:

 

[Dorianfinder]

Appearance is not important to me, some are born unique and others less so, but all people are ultimately very different and more similar than anybody often cares to admit! Racial profiling is a waste of time, too many confounding variables that play a more important role and are often ignored because we have not way of measuring them yet.

 

[mrikë]

I'm not sure. I think these things are settled in a subconscious scale, more than many of us like to admit.

 

[himagain]

All national/ethnic looks are fine with me as long as they aren't scowling judgementaly.

 

[Gitte]

No, I don't care. One of my best friends (* one of my few friends) is Indian and that might not seem like much, but there are still plenty of prejudices towards people here that are less common where I live and I met her on a international summer camp where I also got along with Costa Ricans, Latvians, Argentinians, Finns and so on. Because I am interested in history sometimes someone's look will make me think they have some x ancestry, but it won't stop me from talking to them if I get the opportunity. That my own country (Belgium) has quite a bit of diversity even within families helps a lot of course.

 

[julia90]

What do you mean by that?
Personal sexual attraction? (in this case I tend to be more attracted by typical Italian men)
Or other social contacts? (as friends, colleagues, acquaintances ecc.. In this case those can be of any look, also the no ethnic Italian associate look such as Blaks or east asian, or others)