How Indo-European myths shaped Roman, Celtic, Germanic and Hindu identities

Maciamo

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At the dawn of times were two twin brothers, Manu and Yemo, travelling with a sacred cow. The twins decided to create a new world for a new race called 'mankind'. In order to achieve this, Yemo had to be sacrificed and carved up by his brother, with the help of the Sky Gods, to produce mankind. Manu created the earth, water, air and fire, and became the first priest of the new world order.

Once the world was created, the Sky Gods gave cattle to Trito (the Third man). The cattle was stolen by a three-headed serpent, prompting Trito to seek the monster in its mountain cave, and killing it with the help of the Storm God, thus freeing the cattle. Trito became the first warrior.

All Indo-European speakers (Germanic, Celts, Romans, Greeks, Hittites, Iranians, Hindus) developed their own version of the foundation myth, derived from a shared ancestry.

Manu, the progenitor of mankind, was also the very first king to rule this earth. the Hindu Manu is known in Germanic mythology as Mannus. For Germanic people, Mannus was the progenitor of the three first Germanic tribes. It is tempting to see a link with the three main paternal lineages found in Germanic people : haplogroups I1, R1a and R1b.

Manu's twin, Yemo became Ymir in Norse mythology and Yama in Hinduism/Buddhism.

The Roman foundation myth, the story of Romulus and Remus, is another variant of the Indo-European creation myth. Mannus would be Romulus (Romanus ?), killing his twin brother Remus (Yemo, or Iemus in Latin) to create Rome. The legend was made up centuries after the actual foundation of Rome, as the names of Mannus and Iemus adapted to the phonology of the city (hence the Ro- and Re- prefix).

The Sky Gods can be identified as Odin and Thor in Germanic mythology, Taranis in Celtic mythology, Perun/Perkūnas for the Slavs and Balts, or Zeus/Jupiter and his pantheon for the Greco-Romans.

Unsurprisingly, cattle became a symbol of deity among Indo-Europeans. The bull became the vehicle of Shiva in Hinduism, while Krishna, an avatar of Vishnu, is usually depicted riding a cow. In Zoroastrianism, the Indo-European religion of the Iranian people, closely related to Hinduism, the lands of both Zarathustra and the Vedic priests were those of cattle breeders.

Although cattle did not enjoy the same sacredness among Italo-Celts, Germans or Slavs, cows were a vital part of their society for transport, meat and milk. Dairy product consumption was so important for Indo-European peoples that lactose tolerance is now almost exclusively found among their descendants. The percentage of Indo-European Y-haplogroups (R1a and R1b) in a population is a fairly good indicator of the prevalence of lactase persistence. Based on genetic tests, it is estimated that the mutation for lactose tolerance first appeared in the steppes west of the Ural mountains around 4600-2800 BCE (source The Horse, The Wheel, and Language, p.326).
 
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Manu, the progenitor of mankind, was also the very first king to rule this earth. the Hindu Manu is known in Germanic mythology as Mannus. For Germanic people, Mannus was the progenitor of the three first Germanic tribes. It is tempting to see a link with the three main paternal lineages found in Germanic people : haplogroups I1, R1a and R1b.



there is no haplogroup I1 in India ! Am I wrong?
 
there is no haplogroup I1 in India ! Am I wrong?

So what ? I was talking about the foundation myth of Germanic people, as a variant of the older Indo-European myth. There are no Germanic people in India, right.
 
So what ? I was talking about the foundation myth of Germanic people, as a variant of the older Indo-European myth. There are no Germanic people in India, right.



there is no haplogroup I1 in India !

But there are R1a1 and a little of R1b.

I seek the haplogroup that units all Indo-European peoples.

At the same time I want to find the answer.
Did the Germans *aryans* >>>*theory of Hitler* really invaded India many years ago?
Was he an idiot or....?
:unsure:

Where can i find a map of R1b in India!?
 
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there is no haplogroup I1 in India !

But there are R1a1 and a little of R1b.

I seek the haplogroup that units all Indo-European peoples.

At the same time I want to find the answer.
Did the Germans *aryans* >>>*theory of Hitler* really invaded India many years ago?
Was he an idiot or....?
:unsure:

Where can i find a map of R1b in India!?
lol, the R1b in India is basically non-existent...you won't find any map
 
lol, the R1b in India is basically non-existent...you won't find any map



Maciamo wrote somewhere that there was a little of R1b in India. i dont remember where is the text.
i think R1b is in Iindia . But R1b has 10- 20 subclades...

Maciamo! Am i wr0ng? R1b exists in Iindia....
 
Maciamo wrote somewhere that there was a little of R1b in India. i dont remember where is the text.
i think R1b is in Iindia . But R1b has 10- 20 subclades...

Maciamo! Am i wr0ng? R1b exists in Iindia....

There is R1b in India. Percentages have not been determined yet, but it is found in every part of the country where R1a is common (so about everywhere except the southern tip or east of Bengal). It is mostly of the European variety (R-M269 or deeper subclades), proving their Pontic-Caspian steppe origin.

R1b is of course also found in Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan.
 
There is R1b in India. Percentages have not been determined yet, but it is found in every part of the country where R1a is common (so about everywhere except the southern tip or east of Bengal). It is mostly of the European variety (R-M269 or deeper subclades), proving their Pontic-Caspian steppe origin.

R1b is of course also found in Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan.


thanks

where is the source ?
WH0 can give me the source.
i want to see.....
it's hard to find s0mething on the Internet. * R1b in India *
 
nrg1124-f2.gif


This may help: http://www.nature.com/nrg/journal/v4/n8/fig_tab/nrg1124_F2.html
 
There is R1b in India. Percentages have not been determined yet, but it is found in every part of the country where R1a is common (so about everywhere except the southern tip or east of Bengal). It is mostly of the European variety (R-M269 or deeper subclades), proving their Pontic-Caspian steppe origin.

R1b is of course also found in Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan.
i found on wikiedia...In South Asia, R1b is present at 8% in Iranians,[72] 7.4% in Pakistanis (including 4.5% R1b1b1-M73 and 2.8% R1b1b2-M269), while it is almost not found in India (0.55% R1b1b2-M269).[20] Haplogroup R1b1b2-M269 has been found in approximately 11% of a sample of Newars in Nepal.[73]
 
wikipedia source :

Haplogroup R, the ancestral clade to R1 and R2, appeared on the Central Asian Steppes around 35,000 to 30,000 years ago.
R1, sister clade to R2, moved to the West from the Central Asian Steppes around 35,000 to 30,000 years ago. R1 pockets were established, from where R1a and R1b emerged.
R2 made its first entry into the Indian sub-continent around 25,000 years ago. The routes taken are not clear, although the Indus and Ganges rivers are possible theories put forward. There could, of course, have been multiple immigrations of this haplogroup into the Indian sub-continent, both in the Paleolithic and the Neolithic.


The frequencies of R2 seem to mirror the frequencies of R1a (i.e. both lineages are strong and weak in the same social and linguistic subgroups). This may indicate that both R1a and R2 moved into India at roughly the same time or co-habited, although more research is needed.

Frequency of R2 in Social and Linguistic Subgroups of Indian Populations
(Source: Sengupta et al. 2006)

Lower Caste - - Dravidian 13.79% indo european 10.00%
Middle Caste - - Dravidian 3.53% indo european 18.75%
Upper Caste - - Dravidian 10.17% indo european 16.28%

As R2 we find both R1a in Dravidians or Indo Europeans so about India the connection between Indo Europeans and haplogroups R1* is not so simple and R1b1b2 ht15 is not found .In my opinion there was already R1a in India when a second wave of R1a Indo European culture from asian steppe came here .
 
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Willy, why are you talking about R2 ? It's not an Indo-European haplogroup. As you read in Wikipedia, R2 originated in Central/South Asia and is only found there. R1b* might have originated in Central Asia too, but then migrated to the Middle East, then to the Pontic steppes, where it became R1b1b2. The R1b in India and Pakistan is mostly R1b1b2 and its subclades. It is undeniably of Indo-European origin.
 
How can one be sure when haplogroups came about. 30000 thousand or less or more. No one can be sure about that. These are only quesses.
 
According to barbarian rights book, one of the slaves of the Germanics got cremated alive with her master while the widow was cremated also with their husbands, makes me wonder if the Kurgan urns contain the ashes of those rituals :/
 
Okay, as far as Germanic Tribes though I've been separating the Gods by their tribes and separating Indo-European by Native European (unless if the god was warshiped in a non-Norse Germanic tribe also) Sorry about the copy and pasting, I propably need to find an Anglo-Saxon style keyboard :/

Norse (Haplogroup I?): Bragi, Dellingr, Forseti, Heimdaller, Höðr, Meili, Óðr
Norse/ England (Haplogroup I/Viking Expeditions?: Baldr, Freyr , Hermóðr, Thor
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(Not sure the exact haplogroup yet :/ but Indo_European?)

Old Norse/West Germanic (Anglo-Saxon/Primitive Dutch and German): Odin

Saxon:Saxnot

I'm noticing much of the Germanic Gods seem to be Strictly Norse

I went by the list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Germanic_deities#cite_ref-SIMEK43_2-0


Balder was the God of Sunshine and Summer and was manslautered by his blind brother who was tricked by Loki;all Norse only gods apparently. http://www.haxton.org/Baldr.htm
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Here are the Gods of PIE reconstructed and their Equivalents

Dyeus: God of the Sky
Greek: Zeus (I'm presuming the Romans have borrowed this god http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/primaryhistory/romans/religion/)
Roman: Jupiter
Hindu: Dyaus Pita I hypotheses that these gods are of R1A origin considering Hindu is involved :/

"Zeus". American Heritage Dictionary. Bartleby. Retrieved 2006-07-03
"Indo-European and the Indo-Europeans". American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language (4th ed.). Bartleby. 2000. Retrieved 2008-09-27.
Oberlies, Thomas (1998), Die Religion des Rgveda (in German), Wien.

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Perkwunos: Thunder and oak God
Baltic R1a: Perkūnas
Germanic: Thor
Celtic: Sucellus
Hypothesis: Haplogroup R1 origin

Mallory & Adams 2006, p. 410–33
 
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