I-m223 >i-l701 > i-s12195

[Pan]

I had tested with LivingDNA and the result was a I-M223 haplogroup with a I-701 subclade.

Today I got my 23andMe results, and my Y-DNA haplogroup got refined to I-S12195.

My father, grandfather, grand-grandfather (and most probably many generations back) were born in Thessaly, Greece.

It appears that I-S12195 is associated with the Yamnaya culture.

On the other hand though, there are seven (7) instances of I-S12195 in YFull (https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-S12195/), of which four (4) from Italy, and one each from Iraq, Belgium and Australia.

In the FTDNA I-M223 project, there are the following I-S12195 people per country:
- England (4, 2 of whom are I-Y10677)
- Egypt
- France
- Iraq
- India (I-S17259)
- Georgia (I-S21579)
- Wales (I-S21579)
- Scotland (I-Y6973)

 

[Tutkun Arnaut]

I had tested with LivingDNA and the result was a I-M223 haplogroup with a I-701 subclade.

Today I got my 23andMe results, and my Y-DNA haplogroup got refined to I-S12195.

My father, grandfather, grand-grandfather (and most probably many generations back) were born in Thessaly, Greece.

It appears that I-S12195 is associated with the Yamnaya culture.

On the other hand though, there are seven (7) instances of I-S12195 in YFull (https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-S12195/), of which four (4) from Italy, and one each from Iraq, Belgium and Australia.

In the FTDNA I-M223 project, there are the following I-S12195 people per country:
- England (4, 2 of whom are I-Y10677)
- Egypt
- France
- Iraq
- India (I-S17259)
- Georgia (I-S21579)
- Wales (I-S21579)
- Scotland (I-Y6973)

I think your subclade looks more like a pre Hellenic one. Its more common around Mediterranean, mostly in Italy. So you might belong to Pellasgoi people who became Greeks around 2000 years. I don't see it as Yamnaya. Keep in mind during the last ice age our haplogroup survived in Balkans, and ANATOLIA.

 

[Pan]

So, we're both I-CTS10057...
We have a common ancestor up the male line ~8500 BC

I think your subclade looks more like a pre Hellenic one. Its more common around Mediterranean, mostly in Italy. So you might belong to Pellasgoi people who became Greeks around 2000 years. I don't see it as Yamnaya. Keep in mind during the last ice age our haplogroup survived in Balkans, and ANATOLIA.

 

[xri34]

I had tested with LivingDNA and the result was a I-M223 haplogroup with a I-701 subclade.

Today I got my 23andMe results, and my Y-DNA haplogroup got refined to I-S12195.

My father, grandfather, grand-grandfather (and most probably many generations back) were born in Thessaly, Greece.

It appears that I-S12195 is associated with the Yamnaya culture.

On the other hand though, there are seven (7) instances of I-S12195 in YFull (https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-S12195/), of which four (4) from Italy, and one each from Iraq, Belgium and Australia.

In the FTDNA I-M223 project, there are the following I-S12195 people per country:
- England (4, 2 of whom are I-Y10677)
- Egypt
- France
- Iraq
- India (I-S17259)
- Georgia (I-S21579)
- Wales (I-S21579)
- Scotland (I-Y6973)

Your haplogroup seems rare. You are Thessalian and Pelasgian/Pre-Hellenic haplogroups peak in this area. However your subclade is considered a Yamnaya clade so it must have spread with the Indo-European migrations. More specifically it seems that it has to do with the Gothic migrations. I checked my matches at 23andme and I had three I-M223 that did not go further to a specific clade and one match with haplogroup I-S15733. It is a subclade of I-l701 similar to your haplogoup which is also considered Germanic according to Eupedia. The most interesting is that this person is from Thessaly like you!
Since you have just received your 23andme results could you also post your autosomal analysis?

​

 

[Pan]

Sure!

My autosomal results as per 23andMe are as follows:

Greek & Balkan: 82.3%
(Greece: Highly Likely Match; Romania: Possible Match)

Italian: 10.5%
(Italy: Likely Match)

Broadly Southern European: 3.9%

Eastern European: 2.4%

Broadly Northwestern European 0.2%

Broadly European 0.6%

Unassigned 0.1%

Also:

2. MyHeritage results:

68.6% Greek
30.2% Balkan
1.2% Ashkenazi Jewish

3. LivingDNA results:

Aegean 41.7%
East Balkans 37%
Tuscan 13.3%
Iberian Peninsula: 6.8%
North Turkey: 1.1%

4. Geno 2.0 (Helix) Regional Ancestry (500 Years to 10,000 Years Ago):

Asia Minor 27%
Eastern Europe 26%
Italy & Southern Europe 23%
Southwestern Europe 9%
West Mediterranean 8%
Northwestern Europe 6%

 

[xri34]

We have similar results. Our difference is that I don't have Eastern Europe but about 7% West Asian instead and I have possible match at Albania instead of Romania. I assume your Italian regions are from southern Italy?

 

[Pan]

Yes, indeed: my Italian regions are 1. Sicily, 2. Campania, 3. Apulia

For the record, my Romanian regions are: 1. Vrancea, 2. Constanța, 3. Harghita, 4. Neamț

 

[Palermo Trapani]

Sure!

My autosomal results as per 23andMe are as follows:

Greek & Balkan: 82.3%
(Greece: Highly Likely Match; Romania: Possible Match)

Italian: 10.5%
(Italy: Likely Match)

Broadly Southern European: 3.9%

Eastern European: 2.4%

Broadly Northwestern European 0.2%

Broadly European 0.6%

Unassigned 0.1%

Also:

2. MyHeritage results:

68.6% Greek
30.2% Balkan
1.2% Ashkenazi Jewish

3. LivingDNA results:

Aegean 41.7%
East Balkans 37%
Tuscan 13.3%
Iberian Peninsula: 6.8%
North Turkey: 1.1%

4. Geno 2.0 (Helix) Regional Ancestry (500 Years to 10,000 Years Ago):

Asia Minor 27%
Eastern Europe 26%
Italy & Southern Europe 23%
Southwestern Europe 9%
West Mediterranean 8%
Northwestern Europe 6%

Pan I read your post. I am American of Sicilian-Italian ancestry, My NAT GENO 2.0 results

Italy/Southern Europe 71%
West Mediterranean 14%
Asia Minor 8%
NW Europe 7%

NAT GENO's Y-DNA Haplogroup for me was I-M223, which they suggest originated in South East Europe or Anatolia between 10,000-15,000 BC. I am at MTA and when I put in my Y-DNA Haplogroup as I-M223, they refer to it as I2a1b1, which is the way FtDNA classifies it.. However, the Eupedia article currently has it under I2A2A. Maybe I should ask Maciamo about it for clarification.

Can you help me with I-M223 and where exactly it should be classified and what are the likely sub-clades of I-M223 in Sicily, which might be similar to the ones in Greece, etc.

 

[CrazyDonkey]

NAT GENO's Y-DNA Haplogroup for me was I-M223, which they suggest originated in South East Europe or Anatolia between 10,000-15,000 BC. I am at MTA and when I put in my Y-DNA Haplogroup as I-M223, they refer to it as I2a1b1, which is the way FtDNA classifies it.. However, the Eupedia article currently has it under I2A2A. Maybe I should ask Maciamo about it for clarification.

Can you help me with I-M223 and where exactly it should be classified and what are the likely sub-clades of I-M223 in Sicily, which might be similar to the ones in Greece, etc.

I2a2a (2010) and I2a1b1 (2018) both refer to I-M223. The ISOGG naming convention has to be periodically updated to make room for new additions. When Maciamo wrote his I2 article, the 2010 convention still applied.

Italy, Sicily, Greece, and Anatolia were all part of the Epigravettian Refugium during the last glacial maximum. I1 and I2 hunter-gatherers followed the retreating ice sheets into Europe.