I-M223 in SE Ulster/SW Scotland?

I-M223 (I2a1b1) in Britain you're referring to I-M284 (I2a1b1a1a) came to Britain with neolithic farmers and has nothing to do with any migration from the steppe. Just happened to be one of the few neolithic british lineages to survive.
 
I-M223 (I2a1b1) in Britain you're referring to I-M284 (I2a1b1a1a) came to Britain with neolithic farmers and has nothing to do with any migration from the steppe. Just happened to be one of the few neolithic british lineages to survive.

See:
[h=1]A high-resolution picture of kinship practices in an Early Neolithic tomb[/h]https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-04241-4 (Published: 22 December 2021)

[h=2]Abstract[/h]To explore kinship practices at chambered tombs in Early Neolithic Britain, here we combined archaeological and genetic analyses of 35 individuals who lived about 5,700 years ago and were entombed at Hazleton North long cairn1. Twenty-seven individuals are part of the first extended pedigree reconstructed from ancient DNA, a five-generation family whose many interrelationships provide statistical power to document kinship practices that were invisible without direct genetic data. Patrilineal descent was key in determining who was buried in the tomb, as all 15 intergenerational transmissions were through men. The presence of women who had reproduced with lineage men and the absence of adult lineage daughters suggest virilocal burial and female exogamy. We demonstrate that one male progenitor reproduced with four women: the descendants of two of those women were buried in the same half of the tomb over all generations. This suggests that maternal sub-lineages were grouped into branches whose distinctiveness was recognized during the construction of the tomb. Four men descended from non-lineage fathers and mothers who also reproduced with lineage male individuals, suggesting that some men adopted the children of their reproductive partners by other men into their patriline. Eight individuals were not close biological relatives of the main lineage, raising the possibility that kinship also encompassed social bonds independent of biological relatedness.

Supplementary Table I: The males are all I-L1195 (I2a1b1a1a1)

I-M284
-I-L1195
--I-L126
---I-FGC20063
----I-FT2393
-----I-S7753
------I-Y4142
-------I-Y4751

While they think M284 was formed in Britain, it spread early to Ireland. L126 was also likely formed in Britain, but in Ireland has only been found in Ulster, so likely spread late to Ireland, with the "Cruithin" migrations from SW Scotland that established the Ulaid.

mtDNA is varied: H1, J1, J2, K1, K2, N1, T2, U3, U5, U8, V, and W, with K1 (12) as the most frequent (I'm U2e1d).

I was looking for a discussion of this paper here, but couldn't find one.
 
A high-resolution picture of kinship practices in an Early Neolithic tomb

The males in this study are negative for I-L126, so branch-off one-step above. Only one ancient I-L126 sample has been found in the British Isles - on the Isle of Lewis (Outer Hebrides).
 
dog12008, there’s a 4 year old case study via hyperlink in the irishorigenes URL in opening post. Have a look just for the heck of it.
 
Just wanted to chime in as another I-M223, more specifically I-SK1254. My parents are Mexican and since according to Eupedia I2a2 doesn't seem super common in Spain but I can trace my patrilineal ancestry to Aragon, and more specifically Barcelona. If my research is correct, my first male line ancestor to die in Mexico was a younger son of a Barcelona merchant. This has made me wonder about ancestry coming from Germanic invaders in late antiquity but seeing as how I-M223 is such an ancient WHG haplogroup Occam's Razor seems to indicate I just come from an ancient Iberian line. Sorry if this isn't relevant enough to the thread as OP is British but I didn't think this post merited a new thread

You're in the Basics Pioneer group: M223>P222>Y6098*, S20825*. See: https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/m223-y-clan/about/results

Many samples in that area of the tree trace back to Spain and Portugal, but also to England. Following the expulsion of the Jews from Spain and Portugal, English merchants took over the "middlemen" role formerly held by the Jews. England had a very close alliance with Portugal. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Portuguese_Alliance

SK1254/S9403 dates back around 7,000 years. To see where you fit on this branch (much closer to the present, you would need to do the Big Y-700 test at FTDNA.
 
I was thinking about it from a what if angle for the Hunter family being descendants of the people Ptolemy labeled Selgovae. Everyone downstream from approx. I-Y4142 hailing from the Selgovae? Not for or against it, just an interesting thought.


Good luck with your quest.

My current thinking is that the Isles Scot-Ire clade goes back to a remnant pre-Celtic population that survived the Bell Beakers in a refugium in the Western Isles, dating back to the Neolithic/Megalithic culture (early Stonehenge, etc.). They assimilated with the Celts when they came in (1000-750 BCE), expanding from the Isles/Highlands to the Lowlands, Borders, etc., in close association with the Celtic tribes (Novantae, Selgovae, Damonae, Votodinae, etc.) north of Hadrian's Wall. When the Romans abandoned Britain c.420 CE, the tribes surged south in a sudden expansion seen in the 19 branches of Y4751, with raids reaching as far as Ulster, Yorkshire, Norfolk, Wales, and maybe Cornwall. About the same time, the Gaels (Dal Riata) invaded Argyle, the Angles Northumbria/Anglia, and the Saxons Kent/Essex/Wessex. Then later the Vikings.
 
I-M223 in Ulster

My I-M223 connection to Ulster appears to commence with I-FGC15127 in the Roots 912 Sector on the I-M223 Project at FTDNA. This I-FGC15127 has three documented branches and several sub-branches all associated with the same surname. Branch nodes upstream have sub-branches in Scotland and England. The parent branch I-Y4725 formed about 2,800 to 1,900 ybp and appears to be ancient Britain. Its brother branch I-Y4761 and sub-branch I-Y4760 appear to have bother British and European sub-branches.

What populations do you think could have founded these branches in Britain through migration from Europe to old Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) and Ireland? Thanks.
 
My I-M223 connection to Ulster appears to commence with I-FGC15127 in the Roots 912 Sector on the I-M223 Project at FTDNA. This I-FGC15127 has three documented branches and several sub-branches all associated with the same surname. Branch nodes upstream have sub-branches in Scotland and England. The parent branch I-Y4725 formed about 2,800 to 1,900 ybp and appears to be ancient Britain. Its brother branch I-Y4761 and sub-branch I-Y4760 appear to have bother British and European sub-branches.

What populations do you think could have founded these branches in Britain through migration from Europe to old Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) and Ireland? Thanks.

You are in the same branch as the administrator of the M223 Haplogroup Project, who is also from Australia. I think the surname likely came to Ireland (south Armagh?) from Scotland as part of the Ulster Plantations in the 17th Century. 290 people with a variant of the surname signed the Scottish Covenants 1679-1688, many from Lanarkshire. See: https://www.findmypast.com/search/r...name=robertson&lastname_variants=true&sid=999

Hutchings and Blake, also under I-Y4715 (Grp 2b1) look to be English, while Frazier is a Norman name, from Peeblesshire/Tweeddale (same as the Hunters, above, who believe they descend from the Selgovae Tribe). The Combes surname under I-Y86398 (Grp 2a1) has its highest incidence in France. See: https://forebears.io/surnames/combes
 
Hi, I just found this website and found this thread interesting. I did a Ydna test on my second cousin who carried the male name of the individual I was interested in, TERRILL. His dna came back as I-M223. I only paid for the Y37, so clearly will lack the detail many of you have. I have traced the Terrill lineage back to Virginia, in the mid-1600s, but I am not sure if he came from England or Ireland, and have no clue where to look. My cousin matched to a person with the surname of HOUSE. That individual had pass away but I had a bit of family history from him and hand created a shadow tree on Ancestry.com. His family traced back to the Somerset, UK region and had been there since the 1500s at least. That is the only hint I have had that my ancestor may have originated around that same area, Bristol, Somerset, Gloucester, etc. This thread has and the concentration maps for I M223 have me thinking more about the Ireland/SW Scot region. Has anyone come across this Surname (TERRILL or variant) in your Haplogroup I research?
 
Hello, if your Terrill cousin tested with Family Tree DNA, then he should join the Y-DNA Haplogroup I-M223 Project. I am one of the administrators for that Project. We can have a look at his results and perhaps predict which of the main branches of I-M223 he may belong to. If not we can recommend what to do next. Wayne.
 
I thought the same thing last night when I first posted. I am the administrator for his test. So, I will get on the FTDNA site and see if I can figure out how to join the M223 group. I am in the TERRELL group and have about 9 TERRELL matches including the HOUSE that I mentioned in my original post. The administrator for that group did not advise spending the extra money on the Big Y, I think because no one in the TERRELL project had tested to that level. In fact, I think just one had tested beyond the 37.

I have now joined the M223 project. I am most interested in anything you may find that will point me in the right direction. I might add that most of the project participants in the TERRELL project fall in Haplogroup R1B, Lineage 1, 2 or 3. Just a few of us fell in the Haplogroup I-M223. So we are a bit of a curiosity. My earliest dna confirmed ancestor was one Robert Terrell/Terrill, who was born about 1700 in colonial Virginia. I have two possible baptisms for him. a 1704 baptism to a Robert Turrill/Terrill in Middlesex county, Virginia, and a 1697 Baptism to a Timothy Terrell in Virginia. The later is claimed by many of the individuals who fall in the R1B Lineage 1 group of Terrells.
 
Hey Lindesu,

Sorry that I missed your post earlier. The project is predicting that you'll fall in BD-Roots 811 -2.2- M223>...>Z2054>BY1032>Y7243* (Group 2b). The Isles and Roots clades split from FGC15071 some 6,000 to 8,000 years ago.

"Haplogroup I-Y7243 represents a man who is estimated to have been born around 2,000 years ago, plus or minus 1,000 years. That corresponds to about 50 CE with a 95% probability he was born between 991 BCE and 800 CE." -- FTDNA Discover Tool. In other words, well before the formation of surnames.

A person with a Balogh surname is confirmed as I-Y7243 and claims "Altmann von Friedberg, b. abt 1016" as their earliest known paternal ancestor (and has a family tree to back it up: https://www.genealogieonline.nl/en/balogh-family-tree/I38273.php). Friedberg is in Germany, about 30 kilometers from Frankfurt.

"My earliest dna confirmed ancestor was one Robert Terrell/Terrill, who was born about 1700 in colonial Virginia."

I found a book online, English Duplicates of Lost Virginia Records (https://www.ancestraltrackers.net/va/resources/english-duplicates-lost-virginia-records.pdf), which lists several Terrells (including a Robert from Middlesex Co.) including offices, land grants, and rent rolls:

Robert Terrell granted 63 acres, Middlesex County, 1701
Baleaby Terrell rent-roll for 100 acres, Isle of Wight County 1704
Wm. Terrell granted 300, 100, and 400 acres, King William County, 1714-1716
Wm. Terrell and Rob't Chandler granted 300 acres, K.W. Co., 1716
Wm. Terrell & his son, Wm. Terrell granted 400 acres, K.W. Co., 1717

If the above was the same Robert who was baptized in 1704, it was later in life.
 
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