I2a-Din distribution among East Slavs

LeBrok said:
I can't believe that it is so hard for you to realize, that what you are saying is what you wish for, and has nothing to do with science trying to decipher where Slavic Homeland was. You are a Croat and a Slav, isn't it romantic, and feels good, if Slavic Homeland was always in the same area. It would mean that Slavs are indigenous to this area, that your ancestors always spoke the language and your genetic was always Slavic. How convenient and romantic for you. I'm sure that these cozy feelings are clouding your judgment.




All these above happened at the end of Roman Empire, when the first information about Slavs are written. There is no mention before these times. It means they came from somewhere, and this somewhere wasn't in Balkans.
Can you imagine that Greeks mentioned Keltoi (Celts) in far away lands, but they missed Slavs who lived in Balkans. That would be something!
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Doesn't bother me where would be the " homeland" I taught that 'master' historian like yourself could come with some 'arguments" cause you said there are many proves and now you are saying they are trying to decipher Lol
who were the 'first Slavs" of yours,was the Sclavenes,Avars,Schyths,Getae,Huns,Antae,Cutrigurs,was the far Veneti maybe,who spread that speech,there was bunch many of them in that period in Roman historiography,many time even confusing the names of particular tribe in their historiography,do you know which of them which language spoke exactly?you can guess only,all of them were doing raids,if we know that Balto-Slavic or Slavic language is present for 3000 years less or more,i think it's this way-The version about the Slavs coming from ‘somewhere’ originated long time ago in a misunderstanding of the silence of the Greek and Roman authors about the Slavs as such Trubachev 1985.
 
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Милан М. said:
Doesn't bother me where would be the " homeland" I taught that 'master' historian like yourself could come with some 'arguments" cause you said there are many proves and now you are saying they are trying to decipher Lol who were the 'first Slavs" of yours,was the Sclavenes,Avars,Schyths,Getae,Huns,Antae,Cutrigurs,was the far Veneti maybe,who spread that speech,there was bunch many of them in that period in Roman historiography,all of them were doing raids,if we know that Balto-Slavic or Slavic and Baltic language is present for 3000 years less or more,i think it's this way-The version about the Slavs coming from ‘somewhere’ originated long time ago in a misunderstanding of the silence of the Greek and Roman authors about the Slavs as such Trubachev 1985.
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The tribes you mentioned are who you mentioned, don't try to substitute sclavenes or slav or avar for clave or even balt etc .
I have never seen a language or script from ancient times on any stone, bronze items or even iron items, stating that they are slavs or anyone else...........if you have a link stating as an example, sclavenes script found, see this link, then link it. If you do not have anything , then you have no proof of what languages sclavenes or avars or Getae etc spoke and are only fantasy land.

By your theory, a theory of fantasy, I can call you an English person because we are communicating in English(y)
 
Sile said:
The tribes you mentioned are who you mentioned, don't try to substitute sclavenes or slav or avar for clave or even balt etc .
I have never seen a language or script from ancient times on any stone, bronze items or even iron items, stating that they are slavs or anyone else...........if you have a link stating as an example, sclavenes script found, see this link, then link it. If you do not have anything , then you have no proof of what languages sclavenes or avars or Getae etc spoke and are only fantasy land.

By your theory, a theory of fantasy, I can call you an English person because we are communicating in English(y)
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None called his tribe or people Sclaveni or Sklabenoi-(the original Greek name) in self desigantion for sure,that was my point too,they wasn't one people going from place to place from particular homeland,this were names that Romans gave to particular people in the Danube basin 6th century and some were from earlier times,Sloven (don't confuse the two even sound similar)is later term and i have explain the meaning,which was first stated in the 12th century in Russian chronicles,perhaps you didn't understood me well.
 
Милан М. said:
None called his tribe or people Sclaveni or Sklabenoi-(the original Greek name) in self desigantion for sure,that was my point too,they wasn't one people going from place to place from particular homeland,this were names that Romans gave to particular people in the Danube basin 6th century and some were from earlier times,Sloven (don't confuse the two even sound similar)is later term and i have explain the meaning,which was first stated in the 12th century in Russian chronicles,perhaps you didn't understood me well.
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The FIRST slav documented by scribes in any texts in central Europe was from the year 573AD..........it was from the VELETI tribe , who migrated to modern Mecklenburg germany on the coast.

All other tribes mentioned are who they are called,
goths = goths
avars = avars
lombards = lombards
etc etc
 
Милан М. said:
Doesn't bother me where would be the " homeland" I taught that 'master' historian like yourself could come with some 'arguments" cause you said there are many proves and now you are saying they are trying to decipher Lol
who were the 'first Slavs" of yours,was the Sclavenes,Avars,Schyths,Getae,Huns,Antae,Cutrigurs,was the far Veneti maybe,who spread that speech,there was bunch many of them in that period in Roman historiography,many time even confusing the names of particular tribe in their historiography,do you know which of them which language spoke exactly?you can guess only,all of them were doing raids,if we know that Balto-Slavic or Slavic language is present for 3000 years less or more,i think it's this way-The version about the Slavs coming from ‘somewhere’ originated long time ago in a misunderstanding of the silence of the Greek and Roman authors about the Slavs as such Trubachev 1985.
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in fact in Greek we find many many about Slavs,
only the 'chronicles of St Dimitri' or miracles of st Dimitri, gives many information, especially with Slavs who entered Greece,
there are others archbishopies chronicles explaining a lot,
you can learn a lot if you read them,
the problem is that Greeks many times gave a generic termination 'Scythian' to Slavs, Turks, etc above Istros,
by Cyrill/Method and their chronicles we find their nest/nobility in Great Moravia, and their homelands North and East of that,
the difference is with Bulgarians, Byzantines although mention the Turkish Balgur of Asparuch, they also mention the 7 slavic tribes, the Severi, and maybe that is the reason that Bulgaria is Slavic speaking,
 
Sile said:
The FIRST slav documented by scribes in any texts in central Europe was from the year 573AD..........it was from the VELETI tribe , who migrated to modern Mecklenburg germany on the coast.

All other tribes mentioned are who they are called,
goths = goths
avars = avars
lombards = lombards
etc etc
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I never mentioned any Goths but Getae Thracian tribe the two have nothing in common,the name come from Get perhaps Greek exonym.
.

 
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Милан М. said:
If that is how you see the roots,then how can you say "Slavs" appear in the Balkans,Slavs are not ethnic group nor they ever was,every particular tribe had it's own name and orientation toward something,does all of the Slavs appear in the Balkans and Central Europe migrating from place to place and by which name? Lol if you meant the 6th century Sclavenes to link with that then say so Lebrok :LOL:
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If we don't know something, it doesn't mean we need to invent history. The historical facts and archeology tells us that there were no Slaves in Balkans till 5th century, and they didn't settle for good and in great numbers till 6th. Your hypothesis and arguments need to be more convincing than your wishful thinking.
 
LeBrok said:
If we don't know something, it doesn't mean we need to invent history. The historical facts and archeology tells us that there were no Slaves in Balkans till 5th century, and they didn't settle for good and in great numbers till 6th. Your hypothesis and arguments need to be more convincing than your wishful thinking.
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I am not inventing i am debating but you are not competitive for a debate,nowadays science doesn't deal with that issue in such old fashion,there is neither of those and are far from "facts".As far for Slaves they came a bit later known Nemtsi-deafs and dumbs,sometimes Sasi,they were mostly working in the minning industry.
 
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I2a-Din originated in dacian population
 
The highest I2a-Din in the North is in Vichin, Polesie, Belarus and 43%, the same as in Bosniaks. See the publication of Balanovsky ''ГОСУДАРСТВЕННОЕ НАУЧНОЕ УЧРЕЖДЕНИЕ«ИНСТИТУТ ГЕНЕТИКИ И ЦИТОЛОГИИНАЦИОНАЛЬНОЙ АКАДЕМИИ НАУК БЕЛАРУСИ''
 
Cip:I2a-Din originated in dacian population

How do you know that?
 
There are few clues:
1. There was a dacian (getae) migration from Romania to south Kazakhstan area. Google "masagetae" and see the map. Then see the map af Y Hg I in the world. You will see there is Hg I in exactly the same teritory. That mean when the getae left balkan area they already had hg I2a.
2. There are a lot of words in romanian language that are considered by romanian academics to by borrowed from slavs. For some of them is true, but for others phonetics makes it very improbably. The conclusion was that in the formation of slav people it was a big dacian/getae contribution, bouth lingvistc and genetic, especialy in south slavs

Sent from my SM-J500F using Eupedia Forum mobile app
 
There is a project callled GENESIS, it is work in proress, for dacian samples the result are not avaleable yet. Until then it is only speculation.
Dacian, Thracian and Ilirian languages were in the same lingvistic family with Lituanian and baltic. Ethnogenesis of slaves was in the middle of them.
I2a Din- North was from the Dacians and I2a- Din South must have been spread by slavs
 
"There is a project callled GENESIS, it is work in proress, for dacian samples ..."

Where?
 
In Romania, it is done by The Romanian Academy - Institute of Biology of Bucharest sponsored by Romanian Goverment.
 
Thanks,Cip! This is very interesting:

Preliminary mitochondrial DNA analysis of a 10th Century medieval population in Capidava (Constanta,Romania)

http://www.ibiol.ro/proiecte/PNII/GE.../IoanaRusu.pdf

Conclusion
If...mutations will be confirmed for M3 and M4 it could possible reveal:
1. BothM3 and M4 originated from migrants of the Volga-Ural region.
2.
 
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