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Just curious, does anyone know the reference(s) used to the compile the write up of I2a2a3 (Z161+) under the genetics section?
It's an awesome write up - I'm just curious as to the source of the information is.
Also in bronze age hungaryAcademic papers and commercial DNA testing companies are the source as to where Z161 exists. I trust that the author got his information from actual sources and didn't guess. He lists some of them here.The theories as to what it's history and origins are, are the opinion of the author.
The name of I2a2a-M223 clades keep changing because new ones keep being found. Z161 is now known as I2a2a1b2.
Several I2a2s have been found in Pre-Historic Europe, including a confirmed Z161 from Bronze age Russia. Ancient Y DNA makes it clear I2a2a-M223 comes from Mesolithic Western Europe and that it's one of the Pre-Indo European lineages of Western Europe. Although I2a2a-M223 was a minority lineage in Early IEs in Russia.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...B99ridFmvUWzqlZfZ6_e_R6oIA/edit#gid=898544046
NE7 | Apc-Berekalja I., Hungary | F999928 | M | I-L1228 | N1a | 4360-4490 cal BC | Ancient Hungarian genome - NE7 |
Also in bronze age hungary
RISE247 Hungary Vatya I2a2a-L368
RISE254 Hungary Vatya I2a2a-L59
RISE479 Hungary Vatya I2a2a1a2a2-SK1247/Y4915
And mid neolithic hungary
last is oldest I-M223 found in a grave.
NE7 Apc-Berekalja I., Hungary F999928 M I-L1228 N1a 4360-4490 cal BC Ancient Hungarian genome - NE7
Your statement here is a false statement (Ancient Y DNA makes it clear I2a2a-M223 comes from Mesolithic Western Europe). It should say (Ancient Y DNA makes it clear I2a2a-M223 comes from Mesolithic southeastern Europe) to be correct with data for the past.
new mutation rates put I-M223 TRMCA at 9000 bp which puts at 7000bc Doggerland was gone the one in Spain is later then the Hungarian sample.there is also middle neolithic La Mina Spain, Mina4 3900-3600 BC I2a2a1
TRMCA for I2a2a is +/- 13000 years
it looks like I2a2-M223 spread over Europe in mesolithic times
I still favour a northwest European (Doggerland?) origin
Hold on, hold on - we are drifting off topic.
This thread is NOT about M223 it is about it's sub-clade Z161.
Right now I am looking asking about a limb on the tree, not asking about the roots - those are subterranean to the conversation.
There are plenty of other threads you can debate that.
Megalithic | Spain | La Mina [I0406/Mina 4] | M | 3900-3600 BC | I2a2a1b2 | Z161+, CTS9183+, L368+, L34+, P221+, P223+, P222+, M223+, P220+, L1195- | H1 | Haak 2015; Mathieson 2015 updated on Mina 4 ancient dna |
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