Illyrian and Albanian - a linguistic approach

[Salento]

https://www.persee.fr/doc/mefr_0223-5102_1974_num_86_1_962

Thanks, but Je ne speak pas French, lol

... but I get the general meaning, I think,

 

[torzio]

Thanks, but Je ne speak pas French, lol

... but I get the general meaning, I think,

if its true the Daunians and Rutuli are same or linked....then sample R850 can have ancestors from your lands

The Daunians where far bigger in number and land , pottery, stelae, grave samples etc etc than the other 2 messapic tribes

 

[Salento]

if its true the Daunians and Rutuli are same or linked....then sample R850 can have ancestors from your lands
The Daunians where far bigger in number and land , pottery, stelae, grave samples etc etc than the other 2 messapic tribes

If this deep dive is accurate, maybe you're right.
(R850 is also y T)

(...I’m even closer to the other Latin: R437):

the Illyrians:

 

[torzio]

If this deep dive is accurate, maybe you're right.
(R850 is also y T)

(...I’m even closer to the other Latin: R437):

the Illyrians:

I will try to get the french paper converted ......................the more I read of the Duanians , the more they have a celtic-illyrian mix .............even the tattooing type

 

[Aspurg]

A proven old phonetic change reconstructed in Proto-Albanian is sk > h. Immediately because of this change Albanian has nothing to do with any Illyrian (or other) ethnicity sporting the -sk form in their onomasticon, and these were common in Illyrians.

So peoples with sk > h must be located. Only these are suitable candidates for Proto-Albanians.

 

[Aspurg]

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skerdilaid_Curri

So Skerdilaid is an Albanian name? This is a new trend ofc, no such name was attested in Albanians in Medieval times. Linguistic science says it is not. sk > h, again. So now I have a task, lets find every tribe that has been sporting Skerdilaid name, and eliminate this tribe as candidates for progenitors of the proto-Albanian language.

Options are narrowed down by eliminating the impossible and least likely ones by following rules of the proto-Albanian language.

Considering Niš and Skoplje do seem Albanian derived it seems to proto-Albanians were somewhere there. But it is very hard to say based on current evidence what Albanian is.

I think Albanian might descend of some pre-Mycenean collapse IE language, most of these languages might have been wiped out by presumed Urnfield Illyrians and Thracians in LBA. Might be mixed with others. But some of these older links with Greeko-Armenian whose ancestors lived in more Northern regions of Balkans pre Mycenean collapse also might point toward that direction.

 

[Johane Derite]

Indo european *sk became *h in proto-albanian before the romans entered the balkans. Example: Alb. Hardhuc? (newt lizard) Ancient Greek σκορδύλος (skord?los, ?newt?)

Skerd- is the same stem that gave albanian. Harr- in Harroj (forget).

I told you mnay times Albanian is on the messapic spectrum, not the italo-celtic one which the urnfield hegemonic forces brought.

Jupiter Menzana of Messapians to which they sacrificed horses, compare with Alb. M?z (young horse) and Thracian. Mezenai (horseman)

 

[Aspurg]

Indo european *sk became *h in proto-albanian before the romans entered the balkans. Example: Alb. Hardhuc� (newt lizard) Ancient Greek σκορδύλος (skord�los, �newt�)

Skerd- is the same stem that gave albanian. Harr- in Harroj (forget).

I said sk > h is very old, but about rr, wait isn't sr > rr? So Harr <- Skesr? :grin:

I told you mnay times Albanian is on the messapic spectrum, not the italo-celtic one which the urnfield hegemonic forces brought.

Jupiter Menzana of Messapians to which they sacrificed horses, compare with Alb. M�z (young horse) and Thracian. Mezenai (horseman)

Possibly there are connections with Messapian. Well as I've said these names such as Skerdilaid had some spread. What about Triballian king Hales? There we have a nice name starting with "h".

Find some Illyrian names starting with "H"..

 

[Aspurg]

sr > rr
rw > rr
wr > rr
rn > rr

Waiting for evidence of your rd > rr, tjerr < *terka so there is rk > rr

There is rd > rdh

So what does hardhoj mean? Nothing. Don't bother to debate with me on such topics, as I have demonstrated the ability to linguistically deconstruct a renowned linguist, let alone some Derite posting nonsense as usual..

 

[Johane Derite]

The d in Skerd- was a typo.

It was meant to be Sker- is same stem as Harr- (tear out, remove).

As for nonsense, all your writing has creepy and disturbing undertones of violence and some pathological sexuality obsessions, all signs of a disturbed abnormal mind.

On one hand you are mentioning some big bad conqueror cumans, and yet all your ancestors seem to have forgotten about them within one generation and preffered to pass on a tradition about being from the albanian Kuqi tribe.

Which ever way you spin it, you didn't keep your language, and need to come to terms with it.

EV13 is Albanoid linguistically, deal with it.

 

[Aspurg]

The d in Skerd- was a typo.

It was meant to be Sker- is same stem as Harr- (tear out, remove).

Was it? In the Skerdilaidas name, it seems to me the first part of the compound is indeed Skerd. But I have to look for that. Ah so it's now Harr instead of Harroj.

As for nonsense, all your writing has creepy and disturbing undertones of violence and some pathological sexuality obsessions, all signs of a disturbed abnormal mind.

Most want to descend of "Steppe" riders, who conquer people. Whats the fuss about IE's? Because of them being successful and imposing their will upon the others.. Polako's cowboys on horses etc. Why not be honest about it. Vikings?? Why do you think people glorify Vikings etc.. For all the same reasons whether they admit it or not. If you take a look at these forums, it is all the same pattern..
Average Albanian IQ is in the high 80s, and Yugos are not much better from the charts I've seen. That's your normal Western Balkanite, so carry on on being normal and copying my Greek E-V13 analysis instead of making your own, cause it maybe requires abnormal IQ for Western Balkan standards. Also "normal" people are "average" not elite..

On one hand you are mentioning some big bad conqueror cumans, and yet all your ancestors seem to have forgotten about them within one generation and preffered to pass on a tradition about being from the albanian Kuqi tribe.

Not all lineages mentioned it. Actually my own lineage did not mention any arrival from the Kuqi. In a large book about the Kuchi tribe, my family was only cited once, in this one tradition that did not even mention what subgroup of Kuqi they are from. There are PH908 families with explicit Kuchi branch traditions, a new R1a Z280 result with a Kuch surname!! If one were to take seriously Kuchi area traditions than Kuchi were the most genetically diverse place on the planet. In reality they mostly all descend of their E-V13 cluster.

You know what's funny about this? There are families closely related to me on Peshter, 500 years and more and my family had no idea they were related but they were making up Kuchi traditions. As I've said none of these families have any Kuqi tradition.

Kuqi had an expansion in 18th century, so well done to Kuqi tribe on that. Vasojevici similarly became big from being a very minor tribe.

You better work on Kuqi and their Albanian identity as in Montenegro Kuchi are pro-Serbian on average. But most of your identities are based on religion anyways (Albanians less so except those from Macedonia), would you expect all those Tosk I2a Din people now to switch to Slavic??

Which ever way you spin it, you didn't keep your language, and need to come to terms with it.

It is impossible to keep a language that is related to language of the Ottoman Turks who were taking over the region. But some traces do exist. Nevertheless it doesn't matter. I speak Turkish, dead languages can be revived if there are people dedicated to them and their culture. Cumans are worthy of that from my POV, reviving some average Joe Balkan tribe that are all same and boring is not my cup of tea.

Cumans were subjects, moving the pawns around, whereas these Balkan average Joe's were just objects.

EV13 is Albanoid linguistically, deal with it.

E-V13 is Thracoid linguistically, deal with it.

 

[Johane Derite]

Σκόδρα (Skodra) in proto-Albanian should have been Hadria...

Albanian. Hardhuc? (newt lizard)
Ancient Greek. σκορδύλος (skord?los, ?newt lizard?)

(Sk > H) (o > a)...

 

[Johane Derite]

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Hadria

 

[Aspurg]

Hadria is an interesting parallel. Connecting ancient Scodra itself with Albanian has been criticised as Albanian s > sh is something newer. Etruscans did have ties with Illyrians.

There is another important change in Albanian sp > f (Alb. farë - Gr. σπόρος). Illyrians themselves were also alternatively written Hillyri in Greek. Initial f/pf is common in Greek, so island Hvar from Greek Pharos.

Also hardhël(ë) is alternative form of hardhucë, if this one is older it looks like an analogue of "Scerdil".