Iosif Lazaridis: Proto-Indo-Europeans had dark hair, brown eyes, and an intermed‌iate skin tone

[lockdownboredom]

IBD measures recent descent about few hundred years not closeness or the distance of two populations. Fst is the tool that should be used.

For example, here you can see the distance of Greeks to Iranians and other global populations. Compared to global diversity, westeurasian distances are ridiculously low. View attachment 17896

What does Greek represent? Greece is the most heterogeneous Southern European country.

According to FST, Cypriots share a closer genetic relationship with Anatolian Neolithic Farmers than Albanians do. However, when analyzing genetic components, Albanians inherit a greater proportion of ANF ancestry. Seems like a flawed tool.


Target: Albanian
Distance: 2.4051% / 0.02405105
59.8 Turkey_Barcin_LN.SG
37.2 Russia_Samara_EBA_Yamnaya
2.0 Georgia_Kotias.SG
0.6 Han
0.2 Iran_GanjDareh_N
0.2 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG

Target: Cypriot
Distance: 2.2775% / 0.02277544
47.6 Turkey_Barcin_LN.SG
17.2 Jordan_Late_PPNB
14.8 Georgia_Kotias.SG
13.6 Iran_GanjDareh_N
6.8 Russia_Samara_EBA_Yamnaya

 

[Moja]

https://twitter.com/SkandArya999/status/1877461271576023512

Haggerty et al published a recent study on Proto-Indo-European homeland and suggested Upper-Mesopotamia Zagros is most likely the homeland.

 

[Vallicanus]

Who care what you consider false or spam?! All scientific studies support CHG/Iranian ancestry of Indo-Europeans, Indians have also a large amount of this ancestry.

When you don't spout falsehoods you turn to exaggeration.

Stop boring us. Nobody is accepting your views.

 

[Pax Augusta]

What does Greek represent? Greece is the most heterogeneous Southern European country.

According to FST, Cypriots share a closer genetic relationship with Anatolian Neolithic Farmers than Albanians do. However, when analyzing genetic components, Albanians inherit a greater proportion of ANF ancestry. Seems like a flawed tool.

Those FST distances, as the previous ones, were posted a couple of years ago in the Anthrogenica forum and were done by some user as a reaction to the Fst distances between the PPNB population and modern populations done by an academic study, results that he evidently did not like.

And no, Greece is not the most heterogeneous Southern European country, if we are talking about genetics.

 

[lockdownboredom]

Those FST distances, as the previous ones, were posted a couple of years ago in the Anthrogenica forum and were done by some user as a reaction to the Fst distances between the PPNB population and modern populations done by an academic study, results that he evidently did not like.

And no, Greece is not the most heterogeneous Southern European country, if we are talking about genetics.

Lol, compare a Macedonian/Epirote/Thracian/Thessalian Greek to a Pontic Greek and tell me it's not.

 

[Anfänger]

According to FST, Cypriots share a closer genetic relationship with Anatolian Neolithic Farmers than Albanians do. However, when analyzing genetic components, Albanians inherit a greater proportion of ANF ancestry. Seems like a flawed tool.

The ancestry proportions are somewhat irrelevant because it only measures the differentiation/distance. It is the non-anatolian ancestry of Albanians, which is mostly steppe ancestry, that is pulling them farther away from ANF while the Cypriot non-Anatolian ancestry isn’t that much different as ANF is to steppe ancestry.

What is the ridiculousness of the statement? What I have stated is reality. Modern Iranians do not phenotypically resemble the people that brought to them their Indo-European derived culture/civilization and although they may descend from those Indo-European people, today, they barely resemble them on a genetic level due to social/historical factors (ex: mixing with the natives of Iran/being subject to invasions/occupations from various different races/ethnicities. This holds for people in India as well.

Think of it like this, if the current demographic trajectory of the United States continues, perhaps in 200-300 years (assuming the USA will even exist in its current form by then) we'll have mestizos in America claiming that George Washington or Donald Trump resembled them phenotypically and genetically.

Why do you think OP was and has been trying to pass off a phenotypic anomaly of a white-looking Iranian as some sort of representation of Iranians? Like I said before, OP suffers from an inferiority complex. He has been trying to latch onto White-ness/European-ness by trying to cling onto Italians and claiming that Iranians and Italians are more similar to each other than Italians are to their fellow European. He is not the first Iranian to do this, there have been many and will be many more that suffer from this obnoxious complex.

Also, lets not forget that the OP started off this thread by claiming that because Proto-Indo-Europeans had dark hair and brown eyes, that people with blonde hair and blue eyes cannot be genetically considered the decedents of Indo-Europeans. This was shown to be incorrect considering that those people with blonde hair and blue eyes (ie: in his eyes, people from the Northern regions of Europe) are populations with the largest amount of Indo-European admixture relative to other populations. He then tried to post phenotypic anomalies and try to claim them as the generic Iranian and that was shown to be a delusion by posting general crowds of Iranians. Since then he has been continuing to attach Iranians to Italians (ie European-ness/White-ness). With all this, you seriously don't think OP has an inferiority complex? From personal experience, this guy is definitely not the first Iranian/Indian/etc to engage in this path (sometimes that latch onto Greeks rather than Italians,). Come on, don't be dense as to what is going on here.

Sorry, but it seems you know very little about Iranian history. There was no migration from Sintastha or Andronovo into Iran at any time. Iranians got their LANGUAGE (not civilization) from Yaz-culture which was in southern Central Asia. Their phenotype was most probably not that different from modern Iranians because they were half BMAC autosomal wise. Furthermore, the phenotype of Sintashta was rather southern European. They had 30% light eyed individuals and less blondes. What is true is that Yamnaya was phenotypically not like modern Northern European.

I don’t want to defend Moja because he is troll and knows that i don’t like him but so much misinformation needs to be corrected.

 

[Moja]

I don’t want to defend Moja because he is troll and knows that i don’t like him but so much misinformation needs to be corrected.

I have pity for you, it is really better that you say nothing because your European masters may become angry, there are many people who can defend me, I have more than 40k followers on Instagram, including Dr. Amjadi, Dr. Tavallaie and almost all other genetic scholars in Iran.

 

[Anfänger]

I have pity for you, it is really better that you say nothing because your European masters may become angry, there are many people who can defend me, I have more than 40k followers on Instagram, including Dr. Amjadi, Dr. Tavallaie and almost all other genetic scholars in Iran.

I am saying anything I want. It is you that don’t understands anything the recent papers says. I think it is still possible that some sort of PIE or PPIE was spoken south of the Caucasus but saying all IE people come from Iran is just stupid.

 

[Vallicanus]

I have pity for you, it is really better that you say nothing because your European masters may become angry, there are many people who can defend me, I have more than 40k followers on Instagram, including Dr. Amjadi, Dr. Tavallaie and almost all other genetic scholars in Iran.

So you are a propagandist for Iranian disinformation.

Now we know why you are such a spammer and troll.

 

[Moja]

I am saying anything I want. It is you that don’t understands anything the recent papers says. I think it is still possible that some sort of PIE or PPIE was spoken south of the Caucasus but saying all IE people come from Iran is just stupid.

It doesn't matter what you think, great scholars admit what I say, for example in a few months ago at the World Neolithic Congress, Prof. Xavier Rouard mentioned my researches about the origin of Celtic culture in the north of Iran. https://www.worldneolithiccongress.org/assets/files/List-Of-Posters.pdf

 

[Ricardo]

Moja is right, a true Ancient Iranian poster here, Incredible how the Indo-European languages are not considered as old as the Afro-Asiatic because the Proto-Indo-European genetic component/population was always associated with the Ancient Iranian HG around Northern Iran, the Caspian Sea, Southern Caucasus (CHG), Northern Mesopotamia, Central Asia (BMAC) and Northern India mostly related to Y-DNA J and L haplogroups and HV + H mtDNA haplogroups from Iran.

 

[Pax Augusta]

Moja is right, a true Ancient Iranian poster here, Incredible how the Indo-European languages are not considered as old as the Afro-Asiatic because the Proto-Indo-European genetic component/population was always associated with the Ancient Iranian HG around Northern Iran, the Caspian Sea, Southern Caucasus (CHG), Northern Mesopotamia, Central Asia (BMAC) and Northern India mostly related to Y-DNA J and L haplogroups and HV + H mtDNA haplogroups from Iran.

The fact that you are J1 is just a coincidence, right?

 

[MOESAN]

View attachment 17897

If Ivorix evokes the good survey, the origin of this Cattle is not Central Iran but East-Anatolia and northern Mesopotamaia, or I read badly.

 

[Ricardo]

The fact that you are J1 is just a coincidence, right?

Yes, Ancient Iranian J1 from the Caspian Sea and related to Proto-Indo-Europeans after a Conquistador Journey in Western Europe and South America ! We are still here !

 

[Pax Augusta]

Yes, Ancient Iranian J1 from the Caspian Sea and related to Proto-Indo-Europeans after a Conquistador Journey in Western Europe and South America ! We are still here !

Who would have thought that you would support this theory because you are J1. Obvious coincidence.

 

[MOESAN]

The ancestry proportions are somewhat irrelevant because it only measures the differentiation/distance. It is the non-anatolian ancestry of Albanians, which is mostly steppe ancestry, that is pulling them farther away from ANF while the Cypriot non-Anatolian ancestry isn’t that much different as ANF is to steppe ancestry.


Sorry, but it seems you know very little about Iranian history. There was no migration from Sintastha or Andronovo into Iran at any time. Iranians got their LANGUAGE (not civilization) from Yaz-culture which was in southern Central Asia. Their phenotype was most probably not that different from modern Iranians because they were half BMAC autosomal wise. Furthermore, the phenotype of Sintashta was rather southern European. They had 30% light eyed individuals and less blondes. What is true is that Yamnaya was phenotypically not like modern Northern European.

I don’t want to defend Moja because he is troll and knows that i don’t like him but so much misinformation needs to be corrected.

I beg your pardon because I speak again of pigmentation, what is not the principal topic here. What people understand when they say 30% blue eyes?: 30% concerned markers? or 30% biallelic pure blue? because if it signifies 30% homozygotous blue, it implies more heterozygotous people with ONE blue marker: a 30% blue eyed pop cannot be 70% pure black eyes!!! it implies more "blue" markers, for I know it signifies a bit more light markers than dark markers, so the concerned pop is far to be dark!!! BUT IT'S JUST A DETAIL HERE, only to be clear.

 

[Moja]

Sorry, but it seems you know very little about Iranian history. There was no migration from Sintastha or Andronovo into Iran at any time. Iranians got their LANGUAGE (not civilization) from Yaz-culture which was in southern Central Asia.

And you know absolutely nothing about Iranian history, as Dr. Stanislav Grigoriev said recently in his 452 pages book about the origin of Indo-Iranians and we also read in the ancient Iranian sources, like Bundahishn, the original land was in Azerbaijan in the northwest of Iran, then Indo-Iranians migrated to the southeast of Iran, ... they migrated to India from Sarazm in Tajikistan.

 

[Anfänger]

I beg your pardon because I speak again of pigmentation, what is not the principal topic here. What people understand when they say 30% blue eyes?: 30% concerned markers? or 30% biallelic pure blue? because if it signifies 30% homozygotous blue, it implies more heterozygotous people with ONE blue marker: a 30% blue eyed pop cannot be 70% pure black eyes!!! it implies more "blue" markers, for I know it signifies a bit more light markers than dark markers, so the concerned pop is far to be dark!!! BUT IT'S JUST A DETAIL HERE, only to be clear.

The 30% light eyed statement is only referring to actual phenotype which means two copies of the blue eyes marker, or 'biallelic pure blue'.

You’re right that’s not that dark, probably comparable to modern Northern Italian or Romanian pigmentation. Still we‘re talking about a Corded ware derived culture which was lighter than Yamnaya.

 

[gourd2]

What is the ridiculousness of the statement? What I have stated is reality. Modern Iranians do not phenotypically resemble the people that brought to them their Indo-European derived culture/civilization and although they may descend from those Indo-European people, today, they barely resemble them on a genetic level due to social/historical factors (ex: mixing with the natives of Iran/being subject to invasions/occupations from various different races/ethnicities. This holds for people in India as well.

Think of it like this, if the current demographic trajectory of the United States continues, perhaps in 200-300 years (assuming the USA will even exist in its current form by then) we'll have mestizos in America claiming that George Washington or Donald Trump resembled them phenotypically and genetically.

(looking at non-outliers)
View attachment 17905View attachment 17908View attachment 17907

Why do you think OP was and has been trying to pass off a phenotypic anomaly of a white-looking Iranian as some sort of representation of Iranians? Like I said before, OP suffers from an inferiority complex. He has been trying to latch onto White-ness/European-ness by trying to cling onto Italians and claiming that Iranians and Italians are more similar to each other than Italians are to their fellow European. He is not the first Iranian to do this, there have been many and will be many more that suffer from this obnoxious complex.

Also, lets not forget that the OP started off this thread by claiming that because Proto-Indo-Europeans had dark hair and brown eyes, that people with blonde hair and blue eyes cannot be genetically considered the decedents of Indo-Europeans. This was shown to be incorrect considering that those people with blonde hair and blue eyes (ie: in his eyes, people from the Northern regions of Europe) are populations with the largest amount of Indo-European admixture relative to other populations. He then tried to post phenotypic anomalies and try to claim them as the generic Iranian and that was shown to be a delusion by posting general crowds of Iranians. Since then he has been continuing to attach Iranians to Italians (ie European-ness/White-ness). With all this, you seriously don't think OP has an inferiority complex? From personal experience, this guy is definitely not the first Iranian/Indian/etc to engage in this path (sometimes that latch onto Greeks rather than Italians,). Come on, don't be dense as to what is going on here.

"What I have stated is reality. Modern Iranians do not phenotypically resemble the people that brought to them their Indo-European derived culture/civilization and although they may descend from those Indo-European people, today, they barely resemble them on a genetic level due to social/historical factors"

how do you know? and of course you bring in immigration to US as an example. not surprised.

"Like I said before, OP suffers from an inferiority complex. He has been trying to latch onto White-ness/European-ness by trying to cling onto Italians and claiming that Iranians and Italians are more similar to each other than Italians are to their fellow European. He is not the first Iranian to do this, there have been many and will be many more that suffer from this obnoxious complex."

again how do you know? do you just assume every iranian who tries to find connections between italians or other european people and iranians is having inferiority complexes?

and whiteness isn't a closed thing, genetically maaaaybe, certainly not phenotypically. if he wants to latch onto it, his examples would be perfectly valid. even if you want to call them "anomalies". even genetically he could try to latch onto it easily but he would have to take other populations into account.

and no with all of this there are still a lot more reason to do this without having these inferiority complexes you really want to see.

 

[gourd2]

We Northern Italians practice self restraint, even with trolls from The Apricity/Reddit That's the way to get under their skin, as this new "Swiss" user already on a desperate 10-posts streak shows...$

considering that a big chunk of your posts on this site revolves around phenotypes i wouldn't be surprised if you actually have an account on the Apricity.