Iranian E-M215, M35-

A

Aspurg

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Ethnic group
Bædzænæg
Y-DNA haplogroup
E-A24070
mtDNA haplogroup
I1a1a
In Di Cristofaro et al. study ("Afghan Hindu Kush: Where Eurasian Sub-Continent Gene Flows Converge"), we find one Iranian sample IR4_4 from Khorasan who is E-M215+, but M35-.

Not sure anyone has ever noticed this sample. There is a Saudi, Qatari, Yemeni cluster of E-M281/V16. Some differences are huge, E-M281 cluster has dys458=11, Iranian dys458=18. Potential similarity is YCAII=21-22. M35 modal is 19-22 so their YCAIIa=21 might potentially be indication Iranian is also V16/M281+. IR4_4 E-M215* is 14/32 with Somali, Yemeni and Saudi. so per STR's this link easily jumps to 15000, 20000 years range..

Somali is only 5/37 with a Saudi, while one Yemeni is a bit more distant, about 9/37. So it seems Somali descends from Arabian peninsula.

I think this is an indication of how E-M35 wandered around the Middle East long before Natufians, and how ultimately Iberomaurusians got their dominantly Eurasian autosomes in the course of these ancient migrations.

There is one Nigerian who is also E-M215* not in cluster with E-M281. If Iranian is M281+ TMRCA of this clade in Near East must be old. This SSA link is about 34.6 k years distant. Evidence suggests clearly E-M281/V16 is rather Eurasian whether IR4_4 is M281+ or not. If he is M281+ then it is very Eurasian.
 
Aspurg said:
In Di Cristofaro et al. study ("Afghan Hindu Kush: Where Eurasian Sub-Continent Gene Flows Converge"), we find one Iranian sample IR4_4 from Khorasan who is E-M215+, but M35-.

Not sure anyone has ever noticed this sample. There is a Saudi, Qatari, Yemeni cluster of E-M281/V16. Some differences are huge, E-M281 cluster has dys458=11, Iranian dys458=18. Potential similarity is YCAII=21-22. M35 modal is 19-22 so their YCAIIa=21 might potentially be indication Iranian is also V16/M281+. IR4_4 E-M215* is 14/32 with Somali, Yemeni and Saudi. so per STR's this link easily jumps to 15000, 20000 years range..

Somali is only 5/37 with a Saudi, while one Yemeni is a bit more distant, about 9/37. So it seems Somali descends from Arabian peninsula.

I think this is an indication of how E-M35 wandered around the Middle East long before Natufians, and how ultimately Iberomaurusians got their dominantly Eurasian autosomes in the course of these ancient migrations.

There is one Nigerian who is also E-M215* not in cluster with E-M281. If Iranian is M281+ TMRCA of this clade in Near East must be old. This SSA link is about 34.6 k years distant. Evidence suggests clearly E-M281/V16 is rather Eurasian whether IR4_4 is M281+ or not. If he is M281+ then it is very Eurasian.
Click to expand...

its looks like that E-M215 was born in red sea region (East Africa+South West Arabia)
E-V16 looks like mostly South Arabian (KSA + Yemen) with TMRCA=4100 years, its looks like that this lineage experienced a severe bottleneck
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-M215/
 
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This should be fascinating
Future ancient dna paper:
from algeria and tunisia
From mesolithic to neolithic

ENA Browser

ENA Browser
www.ebi.ac.uk www.ebi.ac.uk


P.s
At Genarchivist site there is a rumor on the y haplogroups :
2 T cases
3 e-m78 cases
1 e-m215* case/ which is strange

( i say rumor becsuse it is mindblowing to me how can they know them when the bam files are not out yet)🤔
 
kingdavid said:
This should be fascinating
Future ancient dna paper:
from algeria and tunisia
From mesolithic to neolithic

ENA Browser

ENA Browser
www.ebi.ac.uk www.ebi.ac.uk


P.s
At Genarchivist site there is a rumor on the y haplogroups :
2 T cases
3 e-m78 cases
1 e-m215* case/ which is strange

( i say rumor becsuse it is mindblowing to me how can they know them when the bam files are not out yet)🤔
Click to expand...

Here you can read more: https://genarchivist.net/showthread.php?tid=1346
Data seems to be out there.
 
Riverman said:
Here you can read more: https://genarchivist.net/showthread.php?tid=1346
Data seems to be out there.
Click to expand...

thanks for sharing riverman (y)
this teepean user is amazing:cool:


Y-DNA
I13901:E-M215*(xE-V16,E-Z830,E-L19,E-V2729,E-Y188009,E-V12,E-V65,E-Y161041,E-V22,E-L618)M5090;PF1942;etc.67872455284

I20824:T-PH196Y5802371716041625
I20825:E-Z1902*(xE-V12,E-V65,E-Y161041)PF229246700196413
I22577:E-Z1902*(xE-V12,E-V65,E-Y161041)PF22922102739818215
I22580:NA365236874213
I22852:T-L162*(xT-Y63197,T-Y45591,T-Y21221,T-Y28685,T-Y31506,T-Y45771,T-Z709,T-Y3858,T-Y15711,T-Y261958,T-BY31173,T-Y38446,T-Y14121,T-Y12641,T-Y37311,T-Y31477,T-Y29980,T-BY32658)CTS8065;CTS11556;etc.859737010387
I22862:NA72357491785
I22866:NA196984453148
I22867:E-M78*(xE-Z1919,E-Y188009,E-Z1902)Z867;PF2164;etc.1560166017844


as you are under e-m78 although from completely different downstream
you probably find the e-z1902* cases fascinating ( e-z1902 is the common ancestor of e-v12 and e-v65)
for me it is still hard to believe I13901 is truly e-m215* ( i think in the end it will be some rare downstream of e-m35 or a dowsntream of e-m78 which will be like the branch of the taforlat males E-FT373000 )
 
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Like I said very often, the homeland of E1b1b is in my opinion in Southern Arabia-Southern Levante, the only other plausible alternative is North East Africa or a forth and back migration between North East Africa and the Southern Levante-Arabia.

The Natufians are one Northern branch, the Iberomaurusians the Western one. Both split from the source group, whereever it was.

It looks to me like these old Maghrebinian branches are direct, old split from this source, and therefore it makes perfect sense if they would be fairly upstrean and/or unique, not too close to the centre and Northern branch groups like E-V22 (centre) and E-L618 (North).

I hope FTDNA can make the most out of it, since the coverage is pretty good, and they can expand the E-M215 phylogeny with those samples.
 
Riverman said:
Like I said very often, the homeland of E1b1b is in my opinion in Southern Arabia-Southern Levante, the only other plausible alternative is North East Africa or a forth and back migration between North East Africa and the Southern Levante-Arabia.

The Natufians are one Northern branch, the Iberomaurusians the Western one. Both split from the source group, whereever it was.

It looks to me like these old Maghrebinian branches are direct, old split from this source, and therefore it makes perfect sense if they would be fairly upstrean and/or unique, not too close to the centre and Northern branch groups like E-V22 (centre) and E-L618 (North).

I hope FTDNA can make the most out of it, since the coverage is pretty good, and they can expand the E-M215 phylogeny with those samples.
Click to expand...

i am surprised that there is no e-L19 here
it had to move from somewhere to reach morocco since we do see it in morocco Neolithic
so i thought Tunisia and Algeria look like the natural route from east to west
 
someone posted at GenArchivist the y haplogroups i think it is based on the real
y calls since the bam files are now out
it look like i suspected that I13901 is not really e-m215*
rather he is under e-m78* ( maybe some rare downstream of it which is a dead line)

1735306362189.png




and here are some analysis of 3 remains by pribislav:
I22577 and I20825 are E-M78>Z1902>pre-Z22639

I22852 is T-L162>L208>CTS11451>Y6671>Y12643>PF7443 (xFTD31994,Y37311,Y31477,Z19981), just like skh002, Neolithic sample from Skhirat necropolis in Morocco.



p.s
i think it is possible in the future e-m215* could be found in ancient remains but they will
likely be from much more east and southern to north africa
rather in the horn area (ethiopia, eritrea, somalia)
 
I rather think it will be found in the Southern Levante-Arabia, or alternatively in or around Egypt.
 
Riverman said:
I rather think it will be found in the Southern Levante-Arabia, or alternatively in or around Egypt.
Click to expand...

could be i am open to it specifically egypt;)
what is your opinion on the predominance of nowadays e-m81
in Tunisia and Algeria
while there is nada 0% here in this research
do you think it is a successful migration from morocco (since pre-e-m81 was found in Neolithic morocco) towards those regions who by large changed the male lines ?

p.s
and i am aware though that nowadays there is e-v65 in moderate % in algeria and tunisia
 
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Riverman said:
I rather think it will be found in the Southern Levante-Arabia, or alternatively in or around Egypt.
Click to expand...
From what little remains we have now, I'm starting to suspect that we will many basal or extinct E-M215 branches all over North Africa and the Arabian Peninsula. Many branches possibly went extinct with the desertification of the Sahara and the Arabian Peninsula roughly 5000 years ago.

There is for sure an Afro-asiatic connection here, but we need much more ancient DNA especially in Arabia and the Horn of Africa, and more archaeological research as well to get a comprehensive theory. Samples from the Neolithic Al-Magar culture and the builders of the Mustatils will be very enlightening.
 
E-M81 is a recent founder event. Concerning E1b1b in North Africa, I think the old North African population was dominated by E already, but not E1b1b (M215). I think M215 branches came with Basal-West Eurasian ancestry, basically the main ancestral component of the Iberomaurusians, not earlier, from North East Africa-Southern Levante-Arabia.
But that's my opinion, we can't say for sure. However, in Sahel-Saharan-Subsaharan Africa, the main local populations seem to have been A and B, which begs to question where modern Subsaharan E branches came from. In my opinion those lived in North Africa, before moving South, when E-M215 spread in North Africa with Iberomaurusian and related people, with a second push in the Neolithic period from the North, which caused a new wave of expansion deeper into Subsaharan Africa of these African E branches (x M215).

The big E-M215 push reached all of North Africa and most of East Africa, whereas the former North African E branches being now more restricted to the Subsarahan part of the continent.
 
Riverman said:
E-M81 is a recent founder event. Concerning E1b1b in North Africa, I think the old North African population was dominated by E already, but not E1b1b (M215). I think M215 branches came with Basal-West Eurasian ancestry, basically the main ancestral component of the Iberomaurusians, not earlier, from North East Africa-Southern Levante-Arabia.
But that's my opinion, we can't say for sure. However, in Sahel-Saharan-Subsaharan Africa, the main local populations seem to have been A and B, which begs to question where modern Subsaharan E branches came from. In my opinion those lived in North Africa, before moving South, when E-M215 spread in North Africa with Iberomaurusian and related people, with a second push in the Neolithic period from the North, which caused a new wave of expansion deeper into Subsaharan Africa of these African E branches (x M215).

The big E-M215 push reached all of North Africa and most of East Africa, whereas the former North African E branches being now more restricted to the Subsarahan part of the continent.
Click to expand...

if you are interested afcorse in a fun way :)
a facial reconstruction of an ancient male individual from Mesolithic tunisia
given what we know from the research above likely he fall on y haplogroup e-m78 or y haplogroup T


Reconstruction of a 8250 years old Mesolithic Tunisian skull (Ain Meterchem, Kasserine /Capsian)​

"The Capsian culture would succeeded the Mechtoids of North Africa. Ain Meterchem, much like other Capsians, belonged to the "Protomediterranean" type. He was dolichocephalic (70.2 CI) with a fairly high cranial capacity (1540 cm3)."


1735323203564.png

​

1735322910826.png

 
Riverman said:
E-M81 is a recent founder event. Concerning E1b1b in North Africa, I think the old North African population was dominated by E already, but not E1b1b (M215). I think M215 branches came with Basal-West Eurasian ancestry, basically the main ancestral component of the Iberomaurusians, not earlier, from North East Africa-Southern Levante-Arabia.
But that's my opinion, we can't say for sure. However, in Sahel-Saharan-Subsaharan Africa, the main local populations seem to have been A and B, which begs to question where modern Subsaharan E branches came from. In my opinion those lived in North Africa, before moving South, when E-M215 spread in North Africa with Iberomaurusian and related people, with a second push in the Neolithic period from the North, which caused a new wave of expansion deeper into Subsaharan Africa of these African E branches (x M215).

The big E-M215 push reached all of North Africa and most of East Africa, whereas the former North African E branches being now more restricted to the Subsarahan part of the continent.
Click to expand...

You know
This famous dude was under e1b1a-v38
( his paternal relative took yseq test
There is only 18 markers panel but he also took a test snp for the e-v38 marker in yseq and he is positive for it)
It is possible some of the first e1b1a look caucasoid in facial features
And later lost it when they mixed with A and B in africa)

en.m.wikipedia.org

Houari Boumédiène - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org



P.s
And this paper found 4.6% e1b1a
In aures region algeria close geographically to where houari was born


1735824796836.png
 
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it is likely this culture
brought the e1b1b1 to the levant to begin with
maybe by contact later with the Natufians who acquired there e1b1b1 from them

en.wikipedia.org

Mushabian culture - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
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