IronSide's ultimate classification thread

It still makes sense that I thought they were Afro-Iranian (there is such a community in Southern Iran) and Egyptian, respectively. In both cases, just like among Yemenite Jews, the modern populations look roughly like a Levant Bronze Age people with more CHG or maybe Iranian_Chalcolithic-like introgression, and especially a looooot more Subsaharan African admixture. The Arabian-like+African-like mixing is pretty similar in Egypt, Black Southern Iranians and Yemen. Or so I think (correct me please if I am wrong).
Actually, the Yemenite Jews are shown to not have SSA admixture in the samples from the study on Post-Roman Egypt. Nevertheless, the regular Yemenite samples are marginally, to considerably intermixed with SSA.
1rxIzq0.jpg
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15694
 
Actually, the Yemenite Jews are shown to not have SSA admixture in the samples from the study on Post-Roman Egypt. Nevertheless, the regular Yemenite samples are marginally, to considerably intermixed with SSA.

Wow, then unlike Ashkenazi Jews and Ethiopian Jews these Yemenite Jews managed to never absorb partly the genetic makeup of the societies where they lived? And what's about the very Northeastern African-like look of some of them, like the n. 56 pictured above? Merely coincidence/convergence, or is it the Arabian-like admixture that determined the look of Northeastern Africans? Now I'm a bit confused. lol
 
Wow, then unlike Ashkenazi Jews and Ethiopian Jews these Yemenite Jews managed to never absorb partly the genetic makeup of the societies where they lived? And what's about the very Northeastern African-like look of some of them, like the n. 56 pictured above? Merely coincidence/convergence, or is it the Arabian-like admixture that determined the look of Northeastern Africans? Now I'm a bit confused. lol

I don't think Yemeni Jews don't have SSA, but they don't have much, 1-4% I would say(based on Gedmatch?), less than modern Yemenis who have two to three times the amount, a similar situation to the contrast between modern Muslim Egyptians and Egyptian Copts, the latter group still retains an admixture closer to the ancient situation in Egypt, Yemeni Jews similarly retain a closer admixture to Ancient Yemen, before the Arab slave trade, this is speculation on my part

Almost half the ancestry of Northeast Africans is the Southwest Asian component that peaks in Arabians, while modern tribal Arabians have from 1-5% East African, so any similarity in phenotype is due to West Eurasian gene flow from Arabia, not the other way around.

Dark skin doesn't usually mean African ancestry, if your ancestors lived in Arabia, they would have to deal with a lot of this deadly laser you call the Sun, natural selection would favour darker skin.
 
Actually, the Yemenite Jews are shown to not have SSA admixture in the samples from the study on Post-Roman Egypt. Nevertheless, the regular Yemenite samples are marginally, to considerably intermixed with SSA.
1rxIzq0.jpg
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15694

The Schuenemann paper is really a treasure trove of information, isn't it? Looking at the Admixture graph I'm reminded of why I sometimes have difficulty distinguishing between these groups in terms of phenotype, although I'm sure it's much easier for people from the region.

In many cases the major difference genetically is the intrusion of Yoruba like genes, and the secondary one the amount of Iran Neo/Chl like ancestry. Palestinians and Jordanians are virtually indistinguishable genetically, with Lebanese different in having lower to no Yoruba and slightly more Iran like ancestry. The Druse and the Lebanese look exceedingly similar except for the tiny amount of Yoruba like ancestry. The Algerians and Tunisians have by far the most SSA, followed by Egypt, and have by far the least Iran Neo/Chl. I don't see a heck of a lot of difference between Bedouin A and Egyptians, whereas Bedouin B are very different, with extremely high levels of Natufian, very low levels of Anatolia Neolithic, and no Yoruba.

Looking at the Tunisians and Algerians, I have no idea why anyone would try to use them to model ancient admixture.

Once again we also see how religion can serve as a barrier to gene flow. I would speculate that the Iraqi Jews have some intrusion from Iran Neo/Chl, however. It will certainly be interesting to see first millennium BC and Hellenistic Jews on this admixture graph. I'll really be interested to see how they compare to Lebanese, Palestinians, and the Druse, whom I used to use as a sort of proxy for them.

@Ironside,
The difference in terms of "SSA" between this and gedmatch is probably that on some of those calculator they might be including East African samples. I would think it's probably a better idea to have both reference populations, but then you have to do some math to really figure it out, as I think about 40-50% of "East African" is SW Asian like, which brings down that "SSA" number a lot.

I think you've hit on something important in talking about "dark skin". People assume the darker skin in some Bedouin groups, for example, or Yemeni or Saudi groups is an important marker for how much "SSA" admixture there's been, when that really isn't the case. It's selection once again. Given how much West Eurasian is in Horners, for example, you'd think they'd be lighter skinned, for example.

I think I've asked you this once before, but I unfortunately don't remember the answer. Is their specific data which reliably tells us where the Bedouin A versus Bedouin B samples were taken?
 
IronSide, sorry for off topic but i love your avatar
 
I think I've asked you this once before, but I unfortunately don't remember the answer. Is their specific data which reliably tells us where the Bedouin A versus Bedouin B samples were taken?

I think they were taken from the Negev desert Bedouins, Bedouin in Arabic just means "nomad" so they aren't really an ethnic group.

Some calculators like Dodecad K12b and MDLP K16 classify me as Bedouin A followed by Yemeni Jew, I was surprised as to why Negev desert nomads are similar to my tribe who live way south, only to discover that the largest Negev Bedouin tribe (Tarabin) actually relate to mine, and migrated from a nearby town called "Turuba" hence their name. I believe they are Bedouin A.

I don't know what the heck is Bedouin B, they have freakish levels of Southwest Asian, no African, and the lowest Caucasus and Med in all of the Middle East, no clue who they are.

I collected tribal individuals from Gedmatch and this one is probably the closest thing to Bedouin B, however they are not Bedouin B, but close, his tribe used to roam the area from central to eastern Arabia.

1 SW-Asian 65.09
2 Caucasian 26.02
3 Mediterranean 5.25
4 S-Indian 1.86
5 E-African 0.79
6 NE-Euro 0.59
7 San 0.18
8 SE-Asian 0.11
9 NE-Asian 0.11
 
The Schuenemann paper is really a treasure trove of information, isn't it? Looking at the Admixture graph I'm reminded of why I sometimes have difficulty distinguishing between these groups in terms of phenotype, although I'm sure it's much easier for people from the region.

In many cases the major difference genetically is the intrusion of Yoruba like genes, and the secondary one the amount of Iran Neo/Chl like ancestry. Palestinians and Jordanians are virtually indistinguishable genetically, with Lebanese different in having lower to no Yoruba and slightly more Iran like ancestry. The Druse and the Lebanese look exceedingly similar except for the tiny amount of Yoruba like ancestry. The Algerians and Tunisians have by far the most SSA, followed by Egypt, and have by far the least Iran Neo/Chl. I don't see a heck of a lot of difference between Bedouin A and Egyptians, whereas Bedouin B are very different, with extremely high levels of Natufian, very low levels of Anatolia Neolithic, and no Yoruba.

Looking at the Tunisians and Algerians, I have no idea why anyone would try to use them to model ancient admixture.

Once again we also see how religion can serve as a barrier to gene flow. I would speculate that the Iraqi Jews have some intrusion from Iran Neo/Chl, however. It will certainly be interesting to see first millennium BC and Hellenistic Jews on this admixture graph. I'll really be interested to see how they compare to Lebanese, Palestinians, and the Druse, whom I used to use as a sort of proxy for them.

@Ironside,
The difference in terms of "SSA" between this and gedmatch is probably that on some of those calculator they might be including East African samples. I would think it's probably a better idea to have both reference populations, but then you have to do some math to really figure it out, as I think about 40-50% of "East African" is SW Asian like, which brings down that "SSA" number a lot.

I think you've hit on something important in talking about "dark skin". People assume the darker skin in some Bedouin groups, for example, or Yemeni or Saudi groups is an important marker for how much "SSA" admixture there's been, when that really isn't the case. It's selection once again. Given how much West Eurasian is in Horners, for example, you'd think they'd be lighter skinned, for example.

I think I've asked you this once before, but I unfortunately don't remember the answer. Is their specific data which reliably tells us where the Bedouin A versus Bedouin B samples were taken?

Remember those Turkish Jews from the Mycenaean study and their really low fst value to Mycenaeans? I think they might be among the closest to Hellenistic Jews you're referring to. The weaker fst in Ashkenazi and other western Jews besides the Turkish branch (or other branches that didn't mix as much) could be due to more mixing with host populations but still, that's probably what western Jews looked like without any additional admixture besides the Southern European one.

Just a thought to nibble on.

Sorry for the brief hijacking, IronSide.
 
Turkish Jews don't descend from ancient Jewish groups of the first millennium BC or the Roman Era.
They are a mix of Romaniote Jews, Ashkenazi Jews, and a large number of Sephardic Jews from Spain and Portugal.

Those groups plot near some modern Southern European groups, so it should be no surprise if there is some similarity to Mycenaens.

That's all it is, no big clue.
 
60-German 61-no idea 62-Cypriot I guess
 
This is fun, a game. I still have my university Physical anthropology books but I would need the skulls to measure :p The number 60, Scandinavian maybe Sweden. 61 the nationality is dutch because the flag is dutch but she totally looks like some gypsies that I've seen even in Spain, I guess Pakistan or northern India. 62, middle east but the country I have no clue.
 
It actually is addictive!
 
Whatever happened to this thread:

guess these girls ethnicities

63)

12507238_998181496907939_6816875760450393884_n.jpg


10399725_1032342930158462_6350199095319341106_n.jpg


64)

Abby-Martin-New-York-Times-fake-news-618x367.jpg


maxresdefault.jpg
 
Saudi or Gulf States
 

65-Romanian/Bulgarian, but could also be Italian? Or maybe somewhere in the Caucasus, like Georgia?

66-I don't know. If it's a legit picture, not altered for pigmentation she could fit in a lot of places in Southern Europe, and as a-typical even in some places in the Near East.

67-Again, it's tough. the jewelry is maybe Indian/Central Asian? Is she mixed?
 
65-Romanian/Bulgarian, but could also be Italian? Or maybe somewhere in the Caucasus, like Georgia?

66-I don't know. If it's a legit picture, not altered for pigmentation she could fit in a lot of places in Southern Europe, and as a-typical even in some places in the Near East.

67-Again, it's tough. the jewelry is maybe Indian/Central Asian? Is she mixed?

more pictures for 66 and 67 (not mixed)

640full-sophia-jawad.jpg


image.jpg
 

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