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Religion Is Allah, Jehovah, etc., the same God?

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How strange ... that on his/her brief posts .... Jarvis's spelling is absolutely atrocious ... he/she can't even manage "skyscraper" !

But - when pushed to produce a novella, like the one we have just seen - ..... whoops! No problems!

Methinks, dear friends .... we have a "cut (or copy..) and paste" artiste in our midst !


....not that there's anything wrong with that !

Provided that you make a disclaimer !

?W????

(BTW - not arguing with the content at all...)
 
With regard to my last post - I offer apologies ...

To Bossel - He beat me to it !

Sorry, Boss...

?W????
 
Y'know, Jarvis...

(Fear not ! - This is just an aside between thee and me .....)

By your own intention ... you're something of an enigma here...

We just don't know you.

So .... I'm starting to do a little detective work .... just for fun .... here's how I see it ...

i) You are probably a little younger than some of us give you credit ... but you stay up quite late at nights ... so, not that young. 17/20 years of age? Right?

ii) You undoubtedly live on the West Coast of the U.S. LA? Bay Area? Seattle?

iii) You're a high school graduate perhaps, maybe college .... but probably not University.

iv) Guess what! ....... I think you're a guy ! And anti-muslem, anti-catholic, anti-atheist and anti-semitic.

How am I doing?

?W????
 
Jarvis, you appear to have a very anti-muslim view. Let me just point out that if followed properly Islam is a very peaceful religion that tolerates other faiths. In fact before the crusades Jews, Christains and Muslims lived quite happily in Jerusalem. It kept the sciences alive while Europe went through the Dark ages and was keen on education and not religious barbarism. The problem we have with Extremist nowadays is that they read their own agenda into the Quran. Thus you get the terroists. this has happened in the past with people reading their own agendas into the Bible. the destruction of the Aztecs and the Incas was down to a mixture of Christain doctrine and money. Fair enough it was the Catholic church that persued this policy of Genocide, but the oppression of natives in Australia, North America and Africa was done by protestants.
You go on about how Islam expanded aggressively. So did Judaism and Christainity. None of these three religions can say we have a blameless past, we are non-violent. And as far as Catholics are concerned your faith and other protestant faiths have gone against the true teachings of Christ. The argument of who is right or wrong within Christain sects is like the pot calling the kettle black. Look to the problems in your own faith before you start badmouthing other religions.
Sensuikan San, how can Jarvis be Anti-atheist? He didn't know what one was until a couple of days ago.

Just a point, the original question was 'Is Allah, Jehovah, etc., the same God?'
Not 'Why is the Muslim faith bad or not as good as Christanity?', which it seems some people are trying to turn this thread into. I wonder what our Muslim members think of the attacks that have been made upon their faith during this thread? Let's try to get back to the Topic
(Yeah I know I'm just as guilty as the next man) :sorry:
 
Eheu, I hate for this to be my first substantial post, but this is an atrocity. Fools, I tell you, fools.

For the original question - it depends. You see, along time ago, Jews were polytheistic, they believed in many gods. One of those gods was Yahweh, the other, El. Yahweh was the favored god of the southern region Judah, while El was primarily worshipped in the northern region Israel (hence the name Isra-EL). Well, after Israel was conquered by the Assyrians, the Yahwists of the south became dominant, and started becoming henotheistic, which led to a process of elimination which wasn't even finalized until after the return from exile. When the Judahites returned, they intermingled with the remaining Judahites and Israelites. They decided that they needed a national religion for their new nation and they began work on the completing the Torah and filling out the Tanakh. Since there were more Yahwists, they fused together El and Yahweh and made the latter the more recent God.

Now along comes Christianity, just as Judaism (from Judah) was getting settled. Christians were a fuse of messianic Judaism (a very extreme Judaistic sect) and hellenistic gnosticism. Lot's of different Christians group arose, and finally the one in Rome imposed its authority and standardized Christianity. Most other churches, including CoE and Coptic Church sort of refused it at first, but now they are full fledge orthodox. Fast forward 500 years, shortly after the standardisation of Christianity, and into the Arabian peninsula where certain gnostic Christians sects existed (and if you go north, still exist). Along comes Muhammed who adopts the Jewish and Christian God and declared the name to be Allah (but remember, if it were a true God, the name would far surpass any name a human could impose on it). In short, yes, Allah-Yahweh-El-Theos are the same gods.

As for the religious tensions, I might want to warn Jarvis (you look awfully familiar, Jarvis...TWeb?) that Protestant-Catholicism was one church during both the Crusades and inquisition. Protestantism is highly unfounded, taking the Bible to be the supreme authority, when it truth, Catholics compiled it! The Bible, though holy, was never supposed to be the final word, Paul gave that authority to the bishops, or elders. And even they looked directly to God. The Bible was merely an attempt to keep the orthodoxy since Marcion's gnostic sect had already adopted a canon, Luke + Paul - Judaism = Marcion's canon. But on to fightings, even today, Christianity is still doing damage, the Irish terrorists, fighting with Muslims in Africa, heck, even abortionist bombers in America. Every country you named has Christian terrorists also. Fanatics are dangerous period.

And yes, the Bible does support terrorism, if taken that way. Ever read Exodus? Then you would know that Moses ordered the deaths of every Hebrew who didn't want to follow the Lord MAN WOMAN AND CHILD! Even Jesus (which Jesus?) ordered the death of people (see Lk. 19:27). Regardless, any religion which condones the eternal torture of people is a wicked religion. You have no justification.
 
That is interesting. he has mentioned or hinted at anti-catholic views yet he has cut and paste from a Catholic site to prop up his arguments. Does he have any of his own views that do not involve entire pieces of text?
 
jarvis, crusades against Albigensians also can be considered as self-defence? heh, then what they were defending? :D
 
This has all been interesting. (Except for the really really long Jarvis post-paste-job- which I couldn't possibly read.) If I begin from the presumption that man created God, then all montheistic religions are interconnected, and so we should not be fighting. If I come from the presumption that God created man, than again the interconnection of monotheistic faiths would seem reasonable and again, we should not be fighting.

Islam had a long history of peace and tolerance before this century. The current spate of violence in the mid-east and globally is often called for and justified by "Extreme Islamacists" who use the Quran quite convincingly.

In reality, although Islam ascribe a common beginning and origin of Allah/Yaweh, in practice and theology these Gods seem to have a different character. (As someone noted does the Christian/New Testament and Jewish/Old Testament God). Hence the conflict. Religions have an orthodoxy based upon their writings and traditions and history. You can't go around trying to make them what you want to. Faiths are what they are.
 
The particulars of the major relgious institutions/sects/denominations as expressed in the so-called credos indeed show a lot of unique qualities; the question remains however are they an honest, objective representation of the core beliefs, or are they mere the product of feuding apologetics ?

There have often been true believers who never forgot the divine inspiration confirming the basic human elements of love and fair treatment of one's neighbor. At least the so-called OT based Judaism and OT, NT based Christiany share the Shema, Israel, stating duty of love for god and one's neighbor. Since the Muslim faith builds on top of the Judeo-Christian tradition of the threemajor 'prophets' Moses, David, and Jesus, do they not also share the central dogma of Shema, Israel ?
 
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jarvis said:
I am willing to buy anyone a one way ticket to mecca on this thread....AND I'll spring for all your internet costs, to write us back and tell us how things are shakeing.
Click to expand...
I'll go for it, if you make it a return ticket.

Please stop to copy & paste without reference, esp. if, as in case of the crusade article, there is a copyright note which tells you how to act:

"All reproductions of this data file must contain the copyright notice (i.e., "Copyright (c) 2003 by Crisis Magazine") and this Copyright/Reproduction Limitations notice. "


BTW, it's a bit strange to title an article "The Real History of the Crusades" & then forget to mention eg. the Albigensian Crusade & the Baltic crusades.
 
Sensuikan San said:
Y'know, Jarvis...

(Fear not ! - This is just an aside between thee and me .....)

By your own intention ... you're something of an enigma here...

We just don't know you.

So .... I'm starting to do a little detective work .... just for fun .... here's how I see it ...

i) You are probably a little younger than some of us give you credit ... but you stay up quite late at nights ... so, not that young. 17/20 years of age? Right?

ii) You undoubtedly live on the West Coast of the U.S. LA? Bay Area? Seattle?

iii) You're a high school graduate perhaps, maybe college .... but probably not University.

iv) Guess what! ....... I think you're a guy ! And anti-muslem, anti-catholic, anti-atheist and anti-semitic.

How am I doing?

?W????
Click to expand...


1. 39
2. Go Big Red
3. I got my HS deploma
4. Im a freind of all peoples (except ones who try to murder US citizens and try to tell kids that being gay is ok)
5. your allmost as sharp as inspector clouseau
 
Muhammad had knowledge of the Holy Bible through Khadijah, his first wife?fs cousin, Waraqah.
When Muhammad frequented the cave at Hira to meditate, I believe that the fallen angel Satan saw an opportunity to execute his diabolical deception. I believe the fallen angel Satan appeared to Muhammad and thoroughly deceived Muhammad into believing that the he was Gabriel.
Muhammad?fs description of experiencing forcible pressure from ?eGabriel?f, commanding him to recite, is a graphic description of demon possession.
Thereafter, having duped Muhammad into believing that he is the apostle of the creator, Satan fully possessed Muhammad and inspired in Muhammad a series of messages which were compiled into the Qur?fan.
In order to be credible, the messages contained some truthful information like the mention that Jesus was of virgin birth and that Jesus performed miracles. However, Satan inserted numerous lies to deceive me and you.
The main lies are the following:

The first lie is the name of The Creator, whom he called Allah. Although cited as the God of Abraham, the name Allah is actually a derivation of Al-ilah, which is derived from Lil, the pagan idol of ancient Sumeria. The true name of the God of Abraham is El or El-Elyon contained in the Torah.
I believe to substitute the pagan idol name Allah for El when denoting God the Creator is to blaspheme in a most heinous way. How has this occurred? I believe Satan has insidiously deceived the pagan ancient Arabs to use the name ilah to denote the generic word ?egod?f. Since then, the Arabic language has been tainted with this Satanic stain.
I also believe in 610 AD, in a cave at Hira, Muhammad himself was deceived by a demon into believing the name of God the Creator was Allah. By this deception, Satan has hijacked the worship that was meant for God the Creator who was called El by Abraham.
This deception is so pervasive that even in the Al-Kitab, the Holy Bible in Arabic and in Bahasa Indonesia, the name used to denote God is Allah. Hence I believe all Muslims as well as those Christians who use the Arabic translations of the Holy Bible have been duped by Satan in a most diabolical way.
In order to repair the hedge of protection for Arabic and Bahasa speaking Christians, it is imperative to immediately replace the name, Allah with El.

The second lie is the hijacking of the monotheistic ?eone god?f idea to mean one body called Allah instead of the true triune Godhead of God the Father (Abba), God the Son (Jesus) and God the Holy Spirit.
The third lie is to indicate that Jesus did not say that He was the Son of God when the exact opposite is true. (Matt 26:63-64)
The fourth lie is to indicate that Jesus did not die and resurrect from death, but someone else was placed on the cross instead (Sura 4:157-158).
There is compelling evidence, for the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. (Reference: pp 215-240. The best of Josh McDowell. A ready defence. 1993)
The fifth lie is to indicate that Muhammad is the Comforter (Paraclete) instead of the Holy Spirit.
It is stated very clearly that the Comforter will ?ereprove the world of righteousness because Jesus goes to His Father?f (John 16:7-11). Yet Muhammad denies that God is Jesus?f father. This automatically disqualifies Muhammad from being the Comforter.
I believe quotation of Bible verses only when it appears to agree with the Qur?fan and ignoring the others and ignoring the context is deceptive.
Deception is the signature of Satan.
The sixth lie is that the Ka?fba, which contained 360 pagan idols is the shrine set up by Abraham to worship Allah.
Abraham was never in the vicinity of Mecca. Abraham migrated from Ur of the Chaldeans up the Euphrates to Syria and then through Canaan south to Egypt and then back to Canaan. The desert of Paran is in the Sinai peninsula and not the Arabian peninsula (Genesis 21:21).
The seventh lie is that Muhammad?fs name is mentioned in the Gnostic ?eGospel of St. Barnabas?f. However, the only version of this is an obvious fake dating from the 18th century, in Italian, and containing passages from Dante?fs Divine Comedy written in the 13th century.
The purpose of Satan?fs deception is to downplay the truth about Jesus and to exalt the pagan idol, Allah.
 
Just to reiterate what others have already said, plagiarism detracts from your credibility and refusing to give proper credit to the original author or source will not win many to your cause... Suspiciously authored posts in the future lacking proper citation will be deleted at our discretion.

Taken from the link in my sig below (see, that wasn't hard now was it?):

"COPYING FROM EXTERNAL SOURCES
A link to the original website should be provided for any copyrighted materials or articles copied from a source other than eupedia.com."
 
I presume you're referring to me, but that shouldn't count since I long ago tore down that arguement, so it was in my memory. I've dealt with it a number of times and many boards, so you using it here was really not a surprise.

Oh, and you must also not like me since I think it is alright to be gay. In that case, I don't like you either, you UnAmerican Traitor. This is a land of the free, and you're nothing but a two-penny bigot.
 
I should point out that not crediting your sources is a breach of copyright.
As for your post on the foundation of Islam being a lie told by Satan is one of the most anti-muslim pieces I have ever seen. Is that how you see other religions, as lies told by Satan? Could you conceive of the idea that Jesus could be a lie sent by Satan? If not, why not? The argument that you use for the founding of the Muslim faith can be used in the founding of the Christain faith. So far you have had a go at the Muslim, Jewish and Catholic faith. Why stop there, I'm sure you have some Anti-Buddhist, Hindu, Sikh, Taoism etc. views you wish to share. You say you wish to educate people. I suggest you educate yourself and look outside that little narrowminded box that you seem to live in. I have known and do know committed Christains that are more open minded than you. :okashii:

I apologise to anyone else who might read this, but this is me starting to lose it somewhat. I need to calm down.
 
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