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Religion Is Allah, Jehovah, etc., the same God?

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I agree with you 100% Mycernius.

You need not apologize for anything you said.
 
jarvis said:
apperently you can't read...

A friend of my just came back yesterday from Jordan. She was not there with the tour group, she made a trip on her own. She said that this trip crashed all the western stereotypes. This is Muslim, very religious country.

She encountered only one problem - during the first night around four or five in the morning they were frightened by some alerter, they thought it was an evacuation or smth... :D in a while she got used to that peculiarity of religion...

She found people of Jordan very frank, hospitable and helpful. The same i heard about Iran. And i don`t think these two countries are the only ones in that list

Then, maybe, you are one of those who have to learn how to read and how to look at the world?
 
I wonder what our Muslim members think of the attacks that have been made upon their faith during this thread?

:souka: What I think being a very keen student of medicine particularly 'Psychiatry'
Is this ...

:souka: One day I Might be a 'Consultant Psychiatrist' & 'will dedicate my life to treat 'Paranoidal Delusions' :D

(Babylon in all its desolation is a sight not so awful as that of the human mind in ruins. Scrope Davies, Letter to the Thoman Raikes) :souka:
 
Oooh Jarvis, nasty stuff.
I wonder if it is any worse than cluster bombs?
 
Well ?c there you go, Jarvis ?c you reap what you sow! After all this effort – people simply aren?ft taking you seriously!

Curiously ?c I do ?c and yes ?c you might have even made two of your more poignant posts with that pair ! They deserve a response.

Not for the squeamish, are they !

Intimidating and horrifying, I agree ?c. (you should also try the beheadings of America prisoners of Al Quaida – they?fre pretty gruesome, too. Just Google ?eem ?c)

Before we start – this may well be a long post ?c and more than likely my last on this thread. (Both by choice ?c and I might get thrown off !) ?c I just want to let you know something:

In truth, if you were traumatized by ?g9/11?h – so was I , more than you can imagine (check out my birthday on my profile). And for some considerable time – I too felt just the way you do – about Muslems, Islam, ?gbloody Arabs?h etc. etc. etc.

At the request of my wife, I also checked online for the news of a relative by marriage to one of my wife's sisters ?c who is a member of the NYPD. (He was involved but Ok, BTW?c)

My son has a friend who worked on the 108th floor of the South Tower. (By chance ?c he too was OK – one of those who was late for work that day.)

But I did feel ?c ?gconnected?h ?c you know ?

So – I was pretty vexed – and let a lot of people know about it ! (I?fve said things that you wouldn't even imagine about Muslims – let alone come out with them in public!) And to my Muslim friends out there – this is true! And I apologize.

But ?c.after a (long) time, I came to realize that I was wrong.

That disgusting incident wasn?ft committed by a culture. It wasn?ft committed by a religion. It wasn?ft because of the teachings of the Q?fran.

It was a bunch of nut-cases who hi-jacked a religion (to quote President Bush).

And this is how I respond to those disgusting images on the videos?c.:

This is precisely what you get when you don?ft allow a separation of ?gChurch?h and State?h!

You and I, and most folks on this forum, live in regions of religious freedom, free from the yoke of ?gThe Clergy?h and free to practice – or not practice – any faith we wish. (You should be grateful for that !) Many in this world, however, do not. And it was not always the case in our world, either. Only the times have changed. They just haven?ft had the chance of being changed in some places.

Perhaps you would have wished to have lived in an earlier century ?c say 17th century England?

Curiously, one of the historical figures I?fve always admired was Oliver Cromwell. He was born just a few miles from my birthplace. Oliver was a God Fearing man, an incredibly intelligent man and possibly one of the finest figure to have ever entered the British Parliament (with the possible exception of Guy Fawkes !). He was a Republican and a good Protestant. He chucked a bloody useless King of the throne .. and ruled England for many years during its brief period as a Republic.

But Oliver never was accused of being Fun! He did not separate Church from State – his religious views always held sway ?c and ask any Irishman ?c his Protestant brutality is remembered to this day ! The rest, of course, is history ?c

Perhaps 17th century America appeals ? Mom have red hair ? Do you ? Like cats? Even worse –have a pretty young daughter with red hair, who keeps a cat?

I hope not – you, or she got hanged ! It was only with Your Revolution that Church and State became separated ?c to put an end to that bullcrap.

You should be so proud (and I know you are!) of the USA ! It wasn?ft the first, but like France, and others that followed it was a land that included in it?fs Constitution two important things – The Freedom of Religion, and the Right to Bare Arms (There was no air conditioning then ! Unfortunately, like you ?c Jefferson couldn?ft spell ?c so ?c.)

The reason that this came about was because the founding fathers realized the necessity of it! They had the good grace, wit and intelligence to foresee the dangers of approaching the matter otherwise. (And I think one or two of them were ?c only ?gso-so?h ?c religious men ?c.!)

In some countries, however – this has not been the case. Religion has held sway. It runs ?ghand in hand?h with the State. Often – it is the State! In some degree, with varying influence, but none more so than in the Middle East. This is whence the problem of your videos arise ! They are horrible, untenable in our society, revolting, and yet ?c. explainable. These acts occur because the Law is Religious Law. ?c..because religious zealots are the only people that have power !

It?fs not the fault of the religion; it?fs not the teaching of the Q?fran ?c.it?fs the religious zealots who hi-jacked it?c.centuries ago! The majority of Muslims (especially those in the west) appreciate this very well – they don?ft enjoy being stoned!

Do you want to be Oliver Cromwell? Unite Church and State and lay down your rules for each and all, as you swagger around with two pearl handled Colts around your hips?

Do you want to be Richard the Lionheart? Swoop into the ME and nuke ?eem all?

Do you want to be Hitler – round ?eem up? Whack a red crescent on their jackets and shove ?eem in box-cars bound for Alaska?

Or do you prefer gas?

Or would you prefer, perhaps, to help to (as you claim) ?eeducate?f. Educate folks in some areas of this world to just look at life in a more compassionate way.

Perhaps you would tell us?

We have all felt like you from time to time – it?fs only human. As humans ?c it?fs part of us ?cwe don?ft love each other all the time.

In many respects – I have great admiration for your honesty; truly !

?cBut cut a few folks a bit of slack, eh?

Incidentally- I see your latest source was a ?gHumanist?h site !

Well done ! – You?fre half-way there mon ami !

Regards,

Clouseau
 
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kirei_na_me said:
I agree with you 100% Mycernius.

You need not apologize for anything you said.

Yes do not apologize Mycernius for even I, an open minded Christian, agree with you on that matter. :cool:

Doc:ramen::happy:
 
Mon ami, Clouseau,

Truer words are rarely spoken, and mostly forgotten. Let not it be the case with those. I will remember them. They give me...a change of heart...well, further humanitarian.

They are the words of an idealist, and I see you grew into that stage - few are so privileged.

However, being a young pragmatist, I do see the "culture" as a threat, for the culture includes religious zeal and fury and daily condoning of self-sacrifice beyond any normal degree. It is no wonder that the Muslim rebels in south Thailand not only rejected the peace offering of their northern Buddhist neighbours, but renewed bloodshed thereafter. It is a culture, and I condemn it - just not all of it.

There is some good in the culture, including the Essene-Jain notion of asceticism, which I look forward to embracing one day, but it is covered in the blood of innocents, marred by the constant warfare, frenzy fueled by the hatred some of which does stem from the religion itself. You see, any man who says that only he is correct will automatically have a bias against those who disagree. But those who dare cross a god - fatwahs weren't invented with Iran...

Of course, also being pragmatic, I see how it is entrenched in Christianity too, especially in American southern states. They hate science - yet of course use it daily - and discourage freethinking. There are many, too many, who wish for this nation to be run under the principles of their morality - which often comes down to neglecting the poor and bombing abortion clinics.

No, in the American society, if the Christians gained real control, abortion, "sexual deviance", even religious freedom will be outlawed.

The liberal Christians are often smeared and even damned to hell on few occasions, and they're too afraid to openly defend themselves, fearing that they may be wrong - and that's hell to pay, literally.

I don't know how to end this, but I must warn that a free tolerance is what allowed hatred to fester in the first place.
 
I'd respond but I'd just get censored...

Isn't that a response?

:p

Jarvis, I think the point is you were going a little overboard. The least you could have done was warn people about the graphic content. Still, as you have just proven, you can respond without being censored. Just use some common sense.
 
Oh dear, Jarvis, if you are representing protestant Christianity, please stop. I think you should become better informed before you do that. All the major religions of the world promote peace, and are against violence, and protestant Christianity (I am a protestant Christian) have been slammed for the gay marriage issue, and the war in Iraq.

I neither agree with the banning of gay marriage, nor the war in Iraq (although, now that they are there, it may be better that they stay until Iraq is stable again).

So that Protestant Christianity in America has been slammed for war mongering, and gay hating (not true in every case), should let you know that other religions are subject to the same. Let us not carry out the same prejudices that other people have against Protestant Christianity.

I have two Muslim co-workers, and they are both well-liked, good, down-to-earth peace-loving people.
 
OFF TOPIC:

Revenant, I love your avatar.

Ok, just had to say that.
 
It would be if you gave a short introduction of what is in the link, but anyway, how is this article related to the question whether the labels Allah, Yhwh (Jehovah) & God refer to the same deity?
 
i didnt mean to offend either of you about your faith... or lack there of.

and jarvis, you seem to be takin personal offense to what i said... im new to the forums and havent read everything so i dont know everyone as closely as the rest of you do. im actually falling behind in this thread as well, i still have 2 pages of this to read, but im workin on a 30 rack here.
i do see a lot of parallels between the religions, the ones that i know of at least. i dont know to much about the koran[sp], cause i havent studied it. but if you look at the similarities between christ and krishna its pretty damn close.
even if you see 'gods' as being man made archetypical beings... its still good to have them around, it gives people somethin to believe in... or to rebel against.
 
Thanks, Jarvis ... rest assured that I accept your graciousness with the same spirit in which it was delivered.


As for your question:

It was slightly unclear to me as to wether you were referring to the actual link - (in which case I would respectfully refer you back to my last post, where I think I covered quite fully all the issues that might arise .....) or wether it was a more specific question – to which my answer would most certainly, and slightly reluctantly ... be... no!

.....To adopt ?gThe Guardian?h as your sole source of information would be a commendable and praiseworthy move to be sure, indeed it has always been a venerable newspaper (and used to be my own ?grag?h of choice) .... but not the correct path.

Thanks Again!

Clouseau
 
Chris Weimer said:
......being a young pragmatist, I do see the "culture" as a threat, for the culture includes religious zeal and fury and daily condoning of self-sacrifice beyond any normal degree. It is no wonder that the Muslim rebels in south Thailand not only rejected the peace offering of their northern Buddhist neighbours, but renewed bloodshed thereafter. It is a culture, and I condemn it - just not all of it.

There is some good in the culture, including the Essene-Jain notion of asceticism, which I look forward to embracing one day, but it is covered in the blood of innocents, marred by the constant warfare, frenzy fueled by the hatred some of which does stem from the religion itself. You see, any man who says that only he is correct will automatically have a bias against those who disagree. But those who dare cross a god - fatwahs weren't invented with Iran...

Of course, also being pragmatic, I see how it is entrenched in Christianity too, especially in American southern states. They hate science - yet of course use it daily - and discourage freethinking. There are many, too many, who wish for this nation to be run under the principles of their morality - which often comes down to neglecting the poor and bombing abortion clinics.

No, in the American society, if the Christians gained real control, abortion, "sexual deviance", even religious freedom will be outlawed.

The liberal Christians are often smeared and even damned to hell on few occasions, and they're too afraid to openly defend themselves, fearing that they may be wrong - and that's hell to pay, literally.

I don't know how to end this, but I must warn that a free tolerance is what allowed hatred to fester in the first place.

I totally agree, but readily accept your caution. A most perceptive post!

What we are faced with is, as you suggest ... dealing with the views of the individual against the opinion of the majority. ....and from day to day ... each of us does indeed become "the individual"! ...and what constitutes "the majority ?

It has always been thus ... and will possibly never differ. Democracy ain't easy, is it !

I've always tried to be pragmatic myself (boasted of it, even !) ... but I'm afraid an amount of idealism does have to creep in after a while!

Without ideals ... where are we?

But as you say - caution must always be the watchword. Free tolerance can indeed ... if totally allowed full rein ... foster many things ....

... but you've never seen me in my jackboots, have you ! :biggrin:

Helluva conundrum isn't it !

Regards,

?W????
 
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