Immigration Is Islam a noble religion?

[AgnusDei]

If not mistaken firehaired is arguing to the contrary, that all that is written is pure fact with no political intentions

My bad, I chose the wrong username, I guess non-religious Texans do not exist after all!

 

[Angela]

I agree with fire haired to a lesser extent when it comes to the origin of the New Testament.
As far as I am concerned, the New Testament is merely a collection of fables and an attempt by the authors to idealize their fictional demigod.
On the one hand , I would like to know what the contemporary Jewish and Roman historians thought of him, on the other hand I don't think such historical accounts exist.

Try Josephus for starters:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus

 

[AgnusDei]

Try Josephus for starters:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus

I remember the name Flavius Josephus from an online conversation that I had with a Jewish friend of mine, we didn't discuss his views on Jesus tho .


What I find surprising is the fact that someone who considered himself Jew/Hebrew would refer to Jesus as the Messiah !
The Wikipedia entry also says that most scholars question the authenticity of the text.
Here is a passage from the so called Testimonium Flavianum :

About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Christ. And when, upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those who had first come to love him did not cease. He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.

This passage is insinuating the divinity of Jesus !
It reminds me of the Gospel of Barnabas commentary on Mohamed .

 

[John Doe]

I remember the name Flavius Josephus from an online conversation that I had with a Jewish friend of mine, we didn't discuss his views on Jesus tho .


What I find surprising is the fact that someone who considered himself Jew/Hebrew would refer to Jesus as the Messiah !
The Wikipedia entry also says that most scholars question the authenticity of the text.
Here is a passage from the so called Testimonium Flavianum :

This passage is insinuating the divinity of Jesus !
It reminds me of the Gospel of Barnabas commentary on Mohamed .

Pretty sure this quote of Josephus was forged by Eusibius. Also, the Gospel of Barnabas was forged in Islamic Al Andalus.

 

[Angela]

I remember the name Flavius Josephus from an online conversation that I had with a Jewish friend of mine, we didn't discuss his views on Jesus tho .


What I find surprising is the fact that someone who considered himself Jew/Hebrew would refer to Jesus as the Messiah !
The Wikipedia entry also says that most scholars question the authenticity of the text.
Here is a passage from the so called Testimonium Flavianum :

This passage is insinuating the divinity of Jesus !
It reminds me of the Gospel of Barnabas commentary on Mohamed .

John Doe is correct...the consensus is that part of that quote was changed by Christians...not all of it, however...

"Scholarly opinion on the total or partial authenticity of the reference in Book 18, Chapter 3, 3 of the Antiquities, a passage that states that Jesus the Messiah was a wise teacher who was crucified by Pilate, usually called the Testimonium Flavianum, varies.^[4][5][1] The general scholarly view is that while the Testimonium Flavianum is most likely not authentic in its entirety, it is broadly agreed upon that it originally consisted of an authentic nucleus, which was then subject to Christian expansion/alteration. ^{[5][6][7][8][9][10]} Although the exact nature and extent of the Christian redaction remains unclear,^[11] there is broad consensus as to what the original text of the Testimonium by Josephus would have looked like.^[9]
Modern scholarship has largely acknowledged the authenticity of the reference in Book 20, Chapter 9, 1 of the Antiquities to "the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James" ^[12] and considers it as having the highest level of authenticity among the references of Josephus to Christianity.^{[13][1][2][14][15][16]} However, New Testament scholar Robert M. Price speculates that Josephus may have considered James a fraternal brother rather than a sibling.^[17]
Almost all modern scholars consider the reference in Book 18, Chapter 5, 2 of the Antiquities to the imprisonment and death of John the Baptist also to be authentic.^{[18][19][20]"}


Josephus was a Pharisee and no friend of the Christian sect. Therefore, it is considered significant that he wrote about John the Baptist, Pontius Pilate, Jesus, his relative James, and, more generally, that there were many Messianic sects in the Israel of that time.

He also devotes some time to the Essenes. The study of them and the part of their corpus that has been found...the Dead Sea Scrolls...is a fascinating life's work for many.

However, interesting as all of this is, I think we're going a little too off-topic.

I agree with Maleth, however, that in looking at Islam we have to see it in the context of the three Abrahamic religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

In my opinion, Islam, although later chronologically, does not flow from Christianity despite the fact that it acknowledges Jesus as a prophet. There is nothing in the Quran that flows from the message of Jesus as written in the New Testament, and yes I have read it...in a Comparative Religion course, along with Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, etc. Great course if you want to see how different cultures interpret the "other dimension" for lack of a better term.

Also, there are different strands in Islam, and the Wahabi version has grown in popularity in large part because oil rich countries like Saudi Arabia have poured millions into schools teaching it. It's a great example of the danger in unintended consequences.

 

[Maleth]

I agree with Maleth, however, that in looking at Islam we have to see it in the context of the three Abrahamic religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

In my opinion, Islam, although later chronologically, does not flow from Christianity despite the fact that it acknowledges Jesus as a prophet. There is nothing in the Quran that flows from the message of Jesus as written in the New Testament, and yes I have read it...in a Comparative Religion course, along with Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, etc. Great course if you want to see how different cultures interpret the "other dimension" for lack of a better term.

Jesus in the the Koran is very vaguely mentioned. The highlights are that he was a prophet, born from a virgin Myriam, did do miracles, but he was not crucified and definatly not a god (or even the son god in the literal sense). None of the Jesus teachings are in the Koran, and if they were they would obviously contratidic those of Mohamed who unlike Jesus, revived the law of Moses. Like how Jesus is said to have perfected the teachings, by highlighting an obvious change in teaching with bold statements, none of this is found in Islamic teachings.

Muslims are supposed to believe that both Jews and Christians have deviated from the true commands of god...which means back to the Mosaic law of stoning, eye for an eye tooth for a tooth, what is perceived as a sin to be punishable by death, women are worth 50% of Men, circumcision (in the case of Christians) and avoidance of foods listed in Deuteronomy not to be eaten such as pork and animal blood (also in the case of Christians).

Also, there are different strands in Islam, and the Wahabi version has grown in popularity in large part because oil rich countries like Saudi Arabia have poured millions into schools teaching it. It's a great example of the danger in unintended consequences.

Wahabi is a stricter interpretation of Sunni Islam (there are various interpretations), The two major groups are Shia and Sunni. Basically its a quarrel of who should have taken the leadership after Muhammad's passing away. Shia Muslims believe that Ali (Muhammad cousin) should have been the next leader. Iran is Shia and Saudi is Sunni (Wahabi) and consider themselves enemies.