Climate change Is it time for Americans to stop using their air conditioners?

[Maciamo]

Norway, Sweden and Iceland may not need their air conditioners. In Texas and Georgia, they do. Africa and India's populations are exploding, and as their economy improves, they are going to want air conditioners. I say let them beat the heat. Why put the HVAC guys out of work to boot? This doomsday global warming bs is highly political and propagandized. I believe a lot of doomsayers just want to control other people. I just want control my room temp.

Only 5% of Indian households have air conditioning (against 90% in the USA). The highest percentage of AC in Africa is in relatively well off South Africa, where it is only 6%. Elsewhere it is less than 1%.

Anyway, all new models of AC from this year (2020) must comply with the new international regulations (Kigali Amendment to the Montreal Protocol) banning the use of refrigerants with high global warming potential like R-22 (a type of HFC) and progressively phasing out completely the use of HFCs by 2030. So even if Africans and Indians suddenly decided to all get AC units, these would be new climate-friendlier models than cause approximately 800 times less global warming than the older HFCs used in most American air conditioners today.

 

[Maciamo]

change your electrical system from 110 V to 250 V.

I had never thought about that, but you are right. I looked it up and according to this guy 220V is less wasteful. DC power conversion requires less heat at this voltage because there are fewer amps to do the same work. Not sure just how much difference we are talking about though. But it would be extremely costly to replace all electric cables and appliances in North America, Central America and Japan (the regions that use 100~120 V) to 220~240V, so I don't think it's worth the investment.

 

[Duarte]

This is the air conditioning installed in the living room of my apartment. Fujitsu Inverter 220V ~ 60Hz 23,000 BTU / h. The bedrooms (4) are equipped with equipment of 8,000 BTU / h. I have no problems with the electricity bill. The building has solar energy capture plates and the KWh equivalent generated is deducted from the electricity bill by the energy distribution company.

 

[Jovialis]

For us, we suffer from seasonal and indoor allergies. Our HVAC system does help with it, because of the allergen filtration. I've noticed a big difference in the quality of my breathing, and in-turn sleeping.

Growing up, my family had an old steam heating system, and I would constantly get sinus infections.

 

[Duarte]

This is the air conditioning installed in the living room of my apartment. Fujitsu Inverter 220V ~ 60Hz 23,000 BTU / h. The bedrooms (4) are equipped with equipment of 8,000 BTU / h. I have no problems with the electricity bill. The building has solar energy capture plates and the KWh equivalent generated is deducted from the electricity bill by the energy distribution company.

 

[nordicwarrior]

Maciamo, you're assuming that I've conceded that man-made global warming is a settled science. I have not.

Even if the planet is increasing in temperature, I'm not convinced the cause is related to man. Look at the size of the sun vs. how puny we are even on a global scale... a more likely cause is variation in the sun's output.

Frankly I would pay more attention to this issue if the green party types weren't obsessed with slapping a carbon tax on all of us. I see global warming... or I should say "climate change" now because it's a far fuzzier and inclusive term... as a way to generate a stable income for the lazy elites.

But I will agree a cautious approach is better than a reckless one. I think wind and solar energy production should be increased where possible in the event we are the cause, but if these carbon taxes keep coming up... you may lose me all together on this issue.

Obviously Nuclear isn't the solution-- it's too dirty because the half life of so much fuel-rod material extends into the thousands of years.

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P.S. A somewhat related topic to climate change is the ozone damage caused by certain fluro-carbons... that is an area that I am in full agreement with the green types... I have worked with commercial grade refrigerants that were used in older systems and know how nasty some of that stuff can be. I can see that eating huge chunks of the ozone layer so I have no problem correcting this specific issue.

But having Europe lecture the U.S. on our energy consumption seems odd given the fact that we ship thousands (if not millions) of tons each year of pelletized timber material over there so you guys can burn it to stay warm. Not to mention all the natural gas we ship over. Plus the U.S. helped build at least one of the pipelines you all are now using to power your grid.

We (meaning the U.S.) do charge for this annual fuel supply (not to mention the labor and material needed for the pipeline I mentioned)… but we do it at greatly discounted rates because we don't want you guys to get too reliant on the Russian Empire. This stuff may not be free, but it's really really cheap compared to what the open market would allow.

I guess my point is the thread does seem a bit tone deaf given our numerous contributions made to our friends overseas.

 

[Maciamo]

This is the air conditioning installed in the living room of my apartment. Fujitsu Inverter 220V ~ 60Hz 23,000 BTU / h. The bedrooms (4) are equipped with equipment of 8,000 BTU / h. I have no problems with the electricity bill. The building has solar energy capture plates and the KWh equivalent generated is deducted from the electricity bill by the energy distribution company.

I looked up the specs as your pictures did not show the type of refrigerant used. It turns out that it is R410a, the worst type of HFC, with a global warming potential of 2088 (against 3 for new non-HFC models). Unbelievably Fujitsu mentions that R410a is an ecological gas because it does not deplete the ozone layer! Only R12 and R22 deplete the ozone layer, but R12 was banned worldwide in 1994 and R22 is already being phased out in the EU and USA. So I am sorry to inform you that your AC units are not eco-friendly at all.

 

[Maciamo]

For us, we suffer from seasonal and indoor allergies. Our HVAC system does help with it, because of the allergen filtration. I've noticed a big difference in the quality of my breathing, and in-turn sleeping.

Growing up, my family had an old steam heating system, and I would constantly get sinus infections.

Steam is terrible for the respiratory system. Even humidifiers tend to be full of flying bacteria.

For allergies we use air purifiers with carbon filter + HEPA filter (such as this one). It's cheaper and does not use harmful refrigerant gases. What's more, I have learned while living in Japan that most air conditioners quickly get mouldy inside and spread mould spores in the air unless they are cleaned at least once a year (ideally by a specialised service). Moulds, and especially toxic black moulds (Aspergillus niger or Stachybotrys chartarum) found in AC, are some of the worst pathogens for health. The Satratoxin-H found in Stachybotrys chartarum was even used as a chemical weapon by the USSR in their war in Afghanistan in the 1980s.

 

[Maciamo]

But having Europe lecture the U.S. on our energy consumption seems odd given the fact that we ship thousands (if not millions) of tons each year of pelletized timber material over there so you guys can burn it to stay warm. Not to mention all the natural gas we ship over. Plus the U.S. helped build at least one of the pipelines you all are now using to power your grid.

Pellet fuel is not a very common way of heating houses in Belgium. I don't know anyone who uses that. Most people use central heating with a natural gas condensing boiler (98% thermal efficiency), which is less polluting and more energy efficient than wood burning. According to this detailed report, wood pellets are mostly used in the UK and for electricity production rather than heating. It is Italians who use it the most for residential heating, followed by Americans (page 14).

Nevertheless Britain is constantly increasing its share of renewable energy, which reached 47% in early 2020, while coal burning accounted for a mere 3.8% of British electricity generation. Oil, wood pellets and others stood at 2.7%. As the UK is the biggest consumer of wood pellets in Europe, it means that in absolute terms wood pellets represents only a tiny percentage of energy generation in Europe.

The US is in a completely different league. Renewable energy stood at 11% in the US in 2018, with petroleum generating 36% of electricity, natural gas 31% and coal 13%.

Combining all types of fuels, Americans produce about 50% CO2 per capita than the average European. The petrol consumption per capita is particularly high in the USA (about 400 to 500% more than Europeans).

 

[Yetos]

pellet is not common also in Greece,
but in Central Makedonia is typical for villages and houses.
even the kernel of peaches and shellσ of nuts.
sometimes they are pressed with accacia glue or pine resin and some oil to briquette sizes.

 

[Duarte]

I looked up he specs as your pictures did not show the type of refrigerant used. It turns out that it is R410a, the worst type of HFC, with a global warming potential of 2088 (against 3 for new non-HFC models). Unbelievably Fujitsu mentions that R410a is an ecological gas because it does not deplete the ozone layer! Only R12 and R22 deplete the ozone layer, but R12 was banned worldwide in 1994 and R22 is already being phased out in the EU and USA. So I am sorry to inform you that your AC units are not eco-friendly at all.

Really, the installation manual in Portuguese says that the air conditioning unit uses a new HFC refrigerant (R410A).

https://www.fujitsu-general.com/global/products/erp-ecodesign/index.html

https://www.fujitsu-general.com/br/products/split/index.html

 

[Duarte]

Switching To R32 From R410A: Why Manufacturers Are Switching Refrigerants

What is an AC refrigerant and why is it used?

Air conditioning, refrigeration and freezing technology are all powered by refrigerant — a compound typically found in a fluid or gaseous state. A refrigerant works by absorbing heat from the environment, which combined with other components like compressors and evaporators to create cool air.
Air conditioners contain refrigerant inside inner copper coils, as the refrigerant absorbs heat from inside, it transitions from its state as a gas, to a liquid. This liquid is sent outside, where a fan blows hot air over the coils and exhausts to the outside.
From there, the refrigerant cools and turns back into a gas. A fan then blows air over the cooled coils, resulting in cool air being blown out of the unit and throughout your home. This cycle is repeated over and again during the cooling process.

Types of refrigerants in ACs

R12

Chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs), including R12, were refrigerants known to significantly contribute to the greenhouse gas effect. Production of units with R12 were ceased in 1994 due to regulation. Chlorofluorocarbons was one of the main reasons for the depletion in the ozone layer and the greenhouse gas effect.

R22

R22 is a Hydrochlorofluorocarbon (HCFCs) refrigerant that was slightly less environmentally damaging than R12, but wasmandated for phase out in the U.S. in 2010 due to the Clean Air Act. R22 is expected to be completely phased out by 2020.

R410A

R410A is a hydrofluorocarbon (HFCs)refrigerant, that was viewed as safer for the environment than R22. It has a GWP (Global Warming Potential) of 2,090, meaning that if one kilogram is released into the atmosphere, it would have 2,090 times the impact of one kilogram of carbon. That being said, R410A has an ODP (Ozone Depletion Potential) of 0.

R32

R32 is also an HFC refrigerant that many air conditioning manufacturers are adopting for its performance in regards to the environment, energy consumption, efficiency and safety. Compared to R410A, R32 has a GWP of 675 — about 30% lower. Both refrigerants have an ODP of 0.

Why switch from R410A to R32?

R32 is quickly becoming the refrigerant of choice for many AC manufacturers. While there are many reasons for this switch, the main benefits of R32 are:

• R32 has a GWP of 675, roughly 30% lower than that of R410A
• R32 systems use up to 20% less refrigerant than R410A, making them more efficient and cost less to operate
• Ozone Depletion Potential of 0
• Easier to recycle than R410A, as R32 is a single component refrigerant

Is it possible to upgrade refrigerant in an existing unit?

Please note that it is not possible to transition an R410A refrigerant unit to an R32 unit. Refrigerants should only be handled by trained, qualified technicians. These experts can assist you in finding an R32 capable system.

FUJITSU - NEW PRODUCTS 2019 - AIR CONDITIONERS LINEUP (UK):

https://www.fujitsu-general.com/shared/pdf-fcuk-support-ctlg-3ef019-1901e-01.pdf

Equipment similar to mine, sold in the United States:

https://www.fujitsu-general.com/us/products/split/wall/asu24rlxfw1.html

 

[Duarte]

The energy efficiency of a machine or machines systems cannot be measured by a single variable. The assembly of the equation that will calculate the energy efficiency (energy balance) has multiple variables. There are compensating factors. Just to illustrate, most likely a Hybrid car (combustion engine + electric engine), ‘Total Flex, (a combustion car engine that can use any fuel mixture containing gasoline and ethanol) driving in Brazil using 100% of ethanol, will have a much more favorable carbon balance than a similar 100% electric model driving in Europe. The Brazilian energetic matrix is ​​basically hydroelectric, wind and solar, unlike the European energy matrix. It could be different since we have oil and gas (we could burn everything in thermoelectric) and we have large reserves of uranium and we have mastered the entire uranium enrichment cycle to produce from fuel for nuclear power plants to atomic bombs (nobody wants that, of course, because its a stupidity) - in this case instead of hydroelectric plants, wind power plants and the transformation of the roofs of buildings in the country's cities in solar plants, we could spread nuclear power plants and thermoeletric that burn fossil fuels by the country, saving the Amazon from hydroelectric plants, because it seems that currently, there, is the only place in the country where they can be built. The Minister of the Environment of Bolsonaro, Ricardo Salles, who said that the ‘the better business is open the corral and release the cattle in the forest’ will be very happy with this and I will be obliged to support him because I do not want to be without energy in my house.

 

[nordicwarrior]

Pellet fuel is not a very common way of heating houses in Belgium. I don't know anyone who uses that. Most people use central heating with a natural gas condensing boiler (98% thermal efficiency), which is less polluting and more energy efficient than wood burning. According to this detailed report, wood pellets are mostly used in the UK and for electricity production rather than heating. It is Italians who use it the most for residential heating, followed by Americans (page 14).

Nevertheless Britain is constantly increasing its share of renewable energy, which reached 47% in early 2020, while coal burning accounted for a mere 3.8% of British electricity generation. Oil, wood pellets and others stood at 2.7%. As the UK is the biggest consumer of wood pellets in Europe, it means that in absolute terms wood pellets represents only a tiny percentage of energy generation in Europe.

The US is in a completely different league. Renewable energy stood at 11% in the US in 2018, with petroleum generating 36% of electricity, natural gas 31% and coal 13%.

Combining all types of fuels, Americans produce about 50% CO2 per capita than the average European. The petrol consumption per capita is particularly high in the USA (about 400 to 500% more than Europeans).

I'm not great on computers so I can't post the link, but in 2018 the U.S. shipped seven million tons of bio-fuel (wood pellets) over to Europe where it was used primarily to fuel the grid. (Report was from N.P.R. and it can found by using search terms "bio-fuel"/Europe/U.S. export").

In your referenced report it says Europe is responsible for 80% of the world's consumption of pelletized biomass. I didn't specify usage per nation... only that Europe as a whole was using our bio-mass. Any way you slice it, that a lot of pellets.

Yes, the U.S. uses more energy per capita, but we are also more productive.

I stand by my original comment of I'll give up my A/C when you give up your heat. And I will also agree that ozone layer protection is massively important... so we need to focus on "ozone neutral" in all cooling systems, including those in automobiles.

 

[Yetos]

countries that consume energy per capita

USA
Canada
Arab peninsula
Norway
Singapore
Iceland


https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/per-capita-energy-use


some numbers kW/h

Qatar 198500
USA 79900
UK 32250

 

[Maciamo]

But your AC still uses the bad R410A.

Fujitsu's figures completely miss the only two refrigerants that are climate-friendly: R290 and R600A. From this year these are the only types allowed in the European union. Even R32 is banned.


[TABLE="class: grid, width: 696"]
[TR]
[TD]Refrigerant[/TD]
[TD]Global Warming Potential[/TD]
[TD]Ozone Depletion Potential[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R 22[/TD]
[TD]1810[/TD]
[TD]Medium[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R 410A[/TD]
[TD]2088[/TD]
[TD]Nil[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R 32[/TD]
[TD]675[/TD]
[TD]Nil[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R 134A[/TD]
[TD]1430[/TD]
[TD]Nil[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R 290[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]Nil[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R 600A[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]Nil[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Maciamo]

Yes, the U.S. uses more energy per capita, but we are also more productive.

What does productivity have anything to do energy consumption? In developed countries, lower energy consumption is associated with more advanced technologies. Anyway, most European countries have a higher productivity than the USA according to the latest OECD data.

And I will also agree that ozone layer protection is massively important... so we need to focus on "ozone neutral" in all cooling systems, including automobiles.

Why do you think that protecting the ozone layer is more important that fighting global warming? That was an important issue in the 1980's, but measures have been taken and the holes in the ozone layer have since healed.

 

[Duarte]

But your AC still uses the bad R410A.

Fujitsu's figures completely miss the only two refrigerants that are climate-friendly: R290 and R600A. From this year these are the only types allowed in the European union. Even R32 is banned.


[TABLE="class: grid, width: 696"]
[TR]
[TD]Refrigerant[/TD]
[TD]Global Warming Potential[/TD]
[TD]Ozone Depletion Potential[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R 22[/TD]
[TD]1810[/TD]
[TD]Medium[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R 410A[/TD]
[TD]2088[/TD]
[TD]Nil[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R 32[/TD]
[TD]675[/TD]
[TD]Nil[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R 134A[/TD]
[TD]1430[/TD]
[TD]Nil[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R 290[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]Nil[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R 600A[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]Nil[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Air conditioning refrigerant gases circulate in a closed (sealed) tube and cylinder system. The objective is that they do not leak, although leaks may occur during recharging and continuous use, where the refrigerant gas expands and contracts. We agree that the refrigerant gas circulates continuously in a sealed system and the leaks, which occur mainly at the time of recharging, which is annual, are insignificant for global warming when compared to the CO2 emitted by Europe, mainly in winter, burning the gas of the Putin, sent by Gazprom. However efficient the burning of natural gas is, the truth is that Europeans heat up in the winter by burning a fossil fuel whose result leaves tons of CO2 in the planet's atmosphere. The traces of R410A that may eventually inadvertently leak from a sealed air conditioning system are so insignificant that they are not even part of the statistics. This is ‘to play for the audience’. The EU should focus on the main cause. The air conditioning refrigerant gas was a concern when was the CFC, that destroyed the ozone layer. Now you bring up the greenhouse effect caused by HFC that leaks in minimal amounts when compared to the tons of CO2 that come from burning the natural gas (fossil) from Gazprom.

 

[bigsnake49]

While natural gas is better than coal for global warming, there are major leaks of methane during the drilling, and transportation of the gas. Not to mention the burning of the fuel to produce electricity or heat. The most efficient way to take advantage of the fuel is by building heat and power plants (CHP) in which the waste heat from the production of electricity is used for heating instead of vented to the environment.
I personally think that most of the thermostats in the shops and businesses are set way too high during the day. You enter a business and the heat is suffocating. Yikes!!!

 

[Maciamo]

While natural gas is better than coal for global warming, there are major leaks of methane during the drilling, and transportation of the gas. Not to mention the burning of the fuel to produce electricity or heat. The most efficient way to take advantage of the fuel is by building heat and power plants (CHP) in which the waste heat from the production of electricity is used for heating instead of vented to the environment.
I personally think that most of the thermostats in the shops and businesses are set way too high during the day. You enter a business and the heat is suffocating. Yikes!!!

That really depends a lot on the country. In Belgium it is normal to keep the thermostat on 20°C during the day and 16°C at night in winter. These are also the recommendations from the Ministry of Health. But I know that many people from warmer countries find these temperatures too cold. We try to dress the same way outside and inside (except for the coat) so as not to have to change clothes all the time, but also to save energy on heating.