Politics Joe Biden's Presidency

Northener said:
And by the way the Capitol rioter fueled by Trump and Guilani c.s. don't fall in the left-right scheme, it was aimed at the corner stone of a parliamentary democracy itself: the Senate! And not only the Democratic senators but also Republicans including "betrayer" Pence etc.
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I find this argument about "protecting democracy" to be so sanctimonious. Do you think liberals would be speaking about the virtues of democracy, in the past? Do you honestly think that something like the Civil Rights act would have been passed by popular demand at the beginning of the Republic?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority
 
Jovialis said:
I think the people that invaded the Capitol should be put in prison, no doubt. Stealing government documents, and computers, as well as entering offices of public officials is just simply insane. If anything, they created the pretext for which the Democrats are now going to used to crash their political opponents. They were played like useful idiots, for the other side. The whole Q-anon garbage is not representative of the 75,000,000 people that voted for him. Like I said back thread, I haven't even heard of them, until the presidential debates.
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The fact is that some q-anon adepts are indeed sworn in as representative (called senator).

And it's not only the factual thing stealing ets. This is more than that, it has a kind of symbolic effect. It tried t to hit democracy and the democratic proces (the final proces in the presidential election) in the heart. It was a kamikaze attack on the democracy.....and the mastermind(s)of that must be held responsible for that. It's more than a 'simple' crime....(stealing documents or computers).
 
Northener said:
The fact is that some q-anon adepts are indeed sworn in as representative (called senator).

And it's not only the factual thing stealing ets. This is more than that, it has a kind of symbolic effect. It tried t to hit democracy and the democratic proces (the final proces in the presidential election) in the heart. It was a kamikaze attack on the democracy.....and the mastermind(s)of that must be held responsible for that. It's more than a 'simple' crime....(stealing documents or computers).
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Democrats have historically used election stealing/suppression rhetoric in the past as well, such as claiming that voter ID laws are discriminatory. Why?

Even Canada requires people to present an ID to vote:

https://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&document=index&lang=e

Again, if you want to put Trump and Giuliani in prison, they should be sitting along side Pelosi, Schumer, and other Democrats too. Both have incited violence.
 
Jovialis said:
I find this argument about "protecting democracy" to be so sanctimonious. Do you think liberals would be speaking about the virtues of democracy, in the past? Do you honestly think that something like the Civil Rights act would have been passed by popular demand at the beginning of the Republic?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority
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Speaking as an European liberal has a different meaning than in you country (liberals are found among left and right). IMO: yes every 'liberal' that organizes an attack on parliament and tries to stop the democratic proces of that moment in parliament stops being liberal.

Such a person of group has become: anti-liberal.
 
Northener said:
Speaking as an European liberal has a different meaning than in your country (liberals are found among left and right). IMO: yes every 'liberal' that acted and organize an attack on parliament and tries to stop the democratic proces of that moment in parliament stops being liberal.

Such a person of group has become: anti-liberal.
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Than let me bring up an example that would be more relevant, Adolf Hitler was democratically elected. If you were to go back in time to stop it, I guess it would make you an anti-liberal.
 
Jovialis said:
Than let me bring up an example that would be more relevant, Adolf Hitler was democratically elected. If you were to go back in time to stop it, I guess it would make you an anti-liberal.
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Indeed Hitler was democratic elected. But a democratic system is more than that. After he was elected he eliminated the "liberal democratic system".
 
Northener said:
Indeed Hitler was democratic elected. But a democratic system is more than that. After he was elected he eliminated the "liberal democratic system".
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What do you think the Democrats would try to do, if they could? You don't think they would like to stay in power, and win elections for all time? These people want to win so bad, that they brazenly reject logic and reason, when it is inconvenient. The ends justify the means, in their minds. I am not saying the GOP wouldn't do the same, btw.
 
Jovialis said:
Than let me bring up an example that would be more relevant, Adolf Hitler was democratically elected. If you were to go back in time to stop it, I guess it would make you an anti-liberal.
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So the lesson is: this makes liberal democracy vulnerable!
Elected leaders that lack, betray or trample the democratic institutions must taken in account for this and not maintain a luxury life on the golf court somewhere in Florida.
 
Jovialis said:
What do you think the Democrats would try to do, if they could? You don't think they would like to stay in power, and win elections for all time? These people want to win so bad, that they brazenly reject logic and reason, when it is inconvenient. The ends justify the means, in their minds. I am not saying the GOP wouldn't do the same, btw.
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There is no reason and no evidence that a Democratic presidential candidate would not respect the outcome of a democratic vote and even less fuel a mob to riot in parliament!

So this is pure speculative Jovialis.

So face the facts the only one who undertook that kind of actions was Donald J. Trump no one else.....
 
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Northener said:
democracy vulnerable!
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I think Aristotle was right to say politics is a never ending cycle:

CgBds3S.png

Ironically for today, democracy was the word he used to describe the corruption of the rule of many. Polity was the virtuous version of it.

soA29MG.png


The real lesson is, nothing lasts forever.
 
Jovialis said:
I think Aristotle was right to say politics is a never ending cycle:

CgBds3S.png

Ironically for today, democracy was the word he used to describe the corruption of the rule of many. Polity was the virtuous version of it.

soA29MG.png


The real lesson is, nothing lasts forever.
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The last one is true (I'm historian after all ;).
And that is why a "representative democratic system" is more preferable, that was in 'our form' unknown to Aristotle.
Trump(ism) is tout court the perversion of it, mob rule in the Capitol.
Aristotle 2.0....
 
Northener said:
The last one is true (I'm historian after all ;).
And that is why a "representative democratic system" is more preferable, that was in 'our form' unknown to Aristotle.
Trump(ism) is tout court the perversion of it, mob rule in the Capitol.
Aristotle 2.0....
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Well I would say the dynamic of billionaires makes it more like the de facto rule of few. Especially since money equals speech, they also make big donations; they are king-makers. That speech they wield, via newspapers, social media, etc. is used to galvanize the masses to achieve their ends... They also have the power to take away speech, by de-platforming people. They took away a sitting president's speech. Perhaps our system is truly an oligarchy. So maybe it is not so different, and more the natural cycle of politics for the mob, and less about Trump. Even Aristotle could see it, all the way back from ancient history.
 
Jovialis said:
Well I would say the dynamic of billionaires makes it more like the de facto rule of few. Especially since money equals speech, they also make big donations; they are king-makers. That speech they wield, via newspapers, social media, etc. is used to galvanize the masses to achieve their ends... They also have the power to take away speech, by de-platforming people. They took away a sitting president's speech. Perhaps our system is truly an oligarchy. So maybe it is not so different, and more the natural cycle of politics for the mob, and less about Trump. Even Aristotle could see it, all the way back from ancient history.
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Indeed 'populist' as Trump pretend to speak on behalve of 'the people', may be Aristotle (beamed up) would see him as a Tyran:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrant

But oligarchy would you state the US and Russia are going to resemble each other?
 
Jovialis said:
Well I would say the dynamic of billionaires makes it more like the de facto rule of few. Especially since money equals speech, they also make big donations; they are king-makers. That speech they wield, via newspapers, social media, etc. is used to galvanize the masses to achieve their ends... They also have the power to take away speech, by de-platforming people. They took away a sitting president's speech. Perhaps our system is truly an oligarchy. So maybe it is not so different, and more the natural cycle of politics for the mob, and less about Trump. Even Aristotle could see it, all the way back from ancient history.
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I don't think we're quite there yet, thanks to our Founding Fathers, who institutionalized a divided government, created the Senate as well as the House, and set up the Electoral College, as well as instituting the Bill of Rights enshrining the rights of free speech and assembly.

As you know, all have come under assault from the far left: calls to increase the number of judges on the Supreme Court, the so-called "court packing"; calls to get rid of the Senate and also to end representative democracy by calling for national referendums on all legislation, perhaps electronically; demands for legislation to repeal the Electoral College, and the attacks on free speech which started on college campuses has spread to encompass all of the media, as I know you're aware. The number of people who in a short time have changed their opinions on the absoluteness of free speech is frightening.

The calls are even more fervent now that we have a Democratic President.

Let's see if it moves to proposed legislation or he holds it at bay.
 
Angela said:
I don't think we're quite there yet, thanks to our Founding Fathers, who institutionalized a divided government, created the Senate as well as the House, and set up the Electoral College, as well as instituting the Bill of Rights enshrining the rights of free speech and assembly.

As you know, all have come under assault from the far left: calls to increase the number of judges on the Supreme Court, the so-called "court packing"; calls to get rid of the Senate and also to end representative democracy by calling for national referendums on all legislation, perhaps electronically; demands for legislation to repeal the Electoral College, and the attacks on free speech which started on college campuses has spread to encompass all of the media, as I know you're aware. The number of people who in a short time have changed their opinions on the absoluteness of free speech is frightening.

The calls are even more fervent now that we have a Democratic President.

Let's see if it moves to proposed legislation or he holds it at bay.
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It reminds me of a quote from Ben Franklin:

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

The sanctimonious platitudes coming from these left-wing nuts is nauseating, to say the least.

I bet all of those ANTIFA morons that recently rioted in the Northwest are actually facing real penalties. Now, that they went against the regime that was playing them like useful idiots for the past few years.
 
Angela said:
I don't think we're quite there yet, thanks to our Founding Fathers, who institutionalized a divided government, created the Senate as well as the House, and set up the Electoral College, as well as instituting the Bill of Rights enshrining the rights of free speech and assembly.

As you know, all have come under assault from the far left: calls to increase the number of judges on the Supreme Court, the so-called "court packing"; calls to get rid of the Senate and also to end representative democracy by calling for national referendums on all legislation, perhaps electronically; demands for legislation to repeal the Electoral College, and the attacks on free speech which started on college campuses has spread to encompass all of the media, as I know you're aware. The number of people who in a short time have changed their opinions on the absoluteness of free speech is frightening.

The calls are even more fervent now that we have a Democratic President.

Let's see if it moves to proposed legislation or he holds it at bay.
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You are always for clear text:if there is one person who betrayed and trampled the trias politica, the US democratic institutions, who said there was election fraud without any evidence, who fired up a riot of a violent mob that threatened the Senate it was the former president DJ Trump. That man should have held responsible for his pervasive deeds.
 
Jovialis said:
It reminds me of a quote from Ben Franklin:

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

The sanctimonious platitudes coming from these left-wing nuts is nauseating, to say the least.

I bet all of those ANTIFA morons that recently rioted in the Northwest are actually facing real penalties. Now, that they went against the regime that was playing them like useful idiots for the past few years.
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I don't see the connection with Joe Biden, If I'm well when his inauguration occurred Antifa demolished a Democratic headquarter in Portland.
They are not like the Proud Boys 'of' Trump.....
 
Jovialis said:
^^Kind of crazy how the service was abruptly cancelled. I can't see my results anymore.
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I still have the old Insitome app on my iPhone, and I can still partially view my results because they are still in the memory cache.
 
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