Laz 2014 or 15 Predicting Competition

[Goga]

Italians and Greeks have around the lowest amount of Yamna-type ancestry in Europe.

See my post above your post, I gave explanation why I think that Italians and Greeks are the most Indo-European Europeans. While other native Europeans just were linguistically influenced by the original Indo-Europeans.
ME ancestry in modern European population is mostly from the farmers, while West Asian ancestry in Italians and Greeks is also from the original proto-Indo-European speakers. There's a lot of Indo-European J2a in Italy and Greece. Greeks have always been living next to other Indo-Europeans, like the Hittites, Lydians, Mittani, Medes (Aryans), Persians, Armenians and all other ancient Indo-European folks in West Asia..

 

[Goga]

But don't worry about people trying to make your people appear inferior or less great than you think they are with history and DNA, because they're aren't trying to do that.

LMAO. I love you too. And don't worry, I don't see you inferior (being & mind) to me either...

 

[Krefter14]

See my post above your post, I gave explanation why I think that Italians and Greeks are the most Indo-European Europeans. While other native Europeans just were linguistically influenced by the original Indo-Europeans.
ME ancestry in modern European population is mostly from the farmers, while West Asian ancestry in Italians and Greeks is also from the original proto-Indo-European speakers. There's a lot of Indo-European J2a in Italy and Greece. Greeks have always been living next to other Indo-Europeans, like the Hittites, Lydians, Mittani, Medes (Aryans), Persians, Armenians and all other ancient Indo-European folks in West Asia..

I was talking about Yamna. I tend to think their decendants brought Indo European languages to most of Europe.

 

[Maleth]

I would bet money Greeks weren't seen as "European" by near easterns, but were simply seen as Greeks.

EUROPA

GENDER: Feminine USAGE: Greek Mythology (Latinized) OTHER SCRIPTS: Ευρωπη (Ancient Greek) Meaning & History Latinized form of Greek Ευρωπη (Europe), which meant "wide face" from ευρυς (eurys) "wide" and ωψ (ops) "face, eye". In Greek mythologyEuropa was a Phoenician princess who was abducted and taken to Crete by Zeus in the guise of a bull. The continent of Europe is named for her. This is also the name of a moon of Jupiter. Related Names VARIANT: Europe http://www.behindthename.com/name/europa

 

[Krefter14]

Maleth, I understand the word Europe derives from Greek. But they didn't think of Europe and the west in the same contex we do today. If you asked an everyday Greek in 100 BC is Greece in Europe, Asia, or Africa I highly doubt they'd know what you're talking about. Just because an educated Greeks did doesn't mean the common people understood the concept like we do. The Persians the Jews or whoever else didn't use the terms Europe, Asia, and Africa. This is even more true for people in 3000BC who had far less knowledge of geography than Greeks who lived a couple thousand years ago.

The Maykop people would not say"We're west Asian". The continent borders we use today are to clean cut and oftnly confuse people. The Greeks were not aware of eastern Asia, and so Europeans later on just called everything east of Greece Asia. But many modern Americans assume there's a river of fire between "continents", and that "continents" define genetics. So, Iraqis and Chinese are both called Asian, as if they're closely related.

 

[Maleth]

Maleth, I understand the word Europe derives from Greek. But they didn't think of Europe and the west in the same contex we do today. If you asked an everyday Greek in 100 BC is Greece in Europe, Asia, or Africa I highly doubt they'd know what you're talking about. Just because an educated Greeks did doesn't mean the common people understood the concept like we do. The Persians the Jews or whoever else didn't use the terms Europe, Asia, and Africa. This is even more true for people in 3000BC who had far less knowledge of geography than Greeks who lived a couple thousand years ago.

The Maykop people would not say"We're west Asian". The continent borders we use today are to clean cut and oftnly confuse people. The Greeks were not aware of eastern Asia, and so Europeans later on just called everything east of Greece Asia. But many modern Americans assume there's a river of fire between "continents", and that "continents" define genetics. So, Iraqis and Chinese are both called Asian, as if they're closely related.

Agree totally, but it seems this is the most passable theory of the Asian appendix to the West has taken its name probably many many years after it was concocted by the Phoenicians / Greek (Roman expansion perhaps?)

 

[Goga]

I was talking about Yamna. I tend to think their decendants brought Indo European languages to most of Europe.

But then again, you're just missing a small detail here. And that's it that Indo-European R1b (and J2a) in modern European population is originally not from Yamnaya folks but folks more from more to the south...

 

[LeBrok]

Huh? Well, only this summer Daesh (ISIS), SUNNI MUSLIMS, committed a genocide against my people in the name of Islam. FACT!!! How do you think my position should be toward, Muslims, Islam, Turks and Arabs?

As an intelligent man you should have learned by now that it is not the smartest thing to judge whole group by deeds of few. As you mentioned yourself, in every country or culture we will find good and evil people.

I love my people, and I'm proud, but I'm not a nationalist.

I'm, like French say it, a chauvinist!

Love to own country and people doesn't need to mean degrading other nationalities.

I'm a friendly guy in real non-virtual world and cause no damage toward or harm anybody / anything. And will NEVER do.

That's not nice to be rude to people who can't see you. Perhaps in real life you need to be pretentious, but in virtual one all your true self is free to act without restrictions?

 

[motzart]

There was actually a really interesting discussion point here I brought up before this stupid flame derailed it into nonsense.

Patterson from the Reich lab is saying that the Yamnaya were not the PIE speakers because they have HG ancestry, lets get back to that. What do you think this implies about their findings?

 

[Aberdeen]

There was actually a really interesting discussion point here I brought up before this stupid flame derailed it into nonsense.

Patterson from the Reich lab is saying that the Yamnaya were not the PIE speakers because they have HG ancestry, lets get back to that. What do you think this implies about their findings?

I think it implies that, for once, the Reich lab is off course, if that is what they've concluded. The one Y haplotype that seems to be most associated with the IE expansion, not the only Y haplotype but probably the most common one, is R1a, which seems to be associated with HG. A lot of people are betting on IE being Yamnaya not only because of the archeological evidence but because it provides a likely scenario for R1a to link with more "southern" haplotypes, such as J2.

 

[arvistro]

I dont see a problem: Yamna still can be and probably was mother of Baltic, Slavic and most likely Germanic.

 

[Greying Wanderer]

There was actually a really interesting discussion point here I brought up before this stupid flame derailed it into nonsense.

Patterson from the Reich lab is saying that the Yamnaya were not the PIE speakers because they have HG ancestry, lets get back to that. What do you think this implies about their findings?

I think it implies there was a transition zone between the steppe zone (EHG) and the forest zone (WHG) on the edge of the steppe and and the western branch was mixed WHG/EHG and the eastern branch was EHG and one branch went west and the other branch went east.

 

[MOESAN]

I predict it only covers part of the story. The Satem IE (r1a) story. I think Yamna was ancestor for Slavs, Balts, Indo-Iranians.
Through Corded it also impacted Germanic.

late maybe (i've not red all the late posts) BUT Corded have no sure direct link with future Germanics - they maybe were already 'satem' biased... they could just have been (perhaps) the vectors of some similarities between germanic and slavic-baltic concerning vocabulary - I believe Corded had a very strong impact in Norway and N-E Germany but less among other today germanic populations - speculations it's true because I would like have more ancient Y-DNA of diverse "corded" places -

 

[MOESAN]

Last centuries, Europe influenced West Asia, It's like the son influencing his own father. And there was no progress in West Asia at all, due to all those wars AND Islam. Because of the Mongols (Turks) and the Arabs. They stopped progress in West Asia. But Ancient Europe was formed & MADE by West Asia. Ancient Rome, Greece was made by philosophy how to govern from West Asia, from the times of the Sumerians. Also, don't forget that most progression (like banking system, science) in Europe was caused by the JEWS!!!
And you're making a mistake here. Europeans were NEVER Indo-Europised by race, only by language. But Europeans came actually from West Asia thousands of years ealier as agriculturists/farmers from Near East. Most of the modern Europeans are only Indo-Europised by language & culture and not by race. Racially speaking the Italians and Greeks are racially the most Indo-European Europeans.

Truth is between, I think:
the I-Ens of the Chalco to Iron Ages were not a monolithical population but they hare surely some common mixes with certain %s of genetical components and their successive intrusions (and sometime waves) have been weighty enough to change the genetic previous landscape of Europe, roughly said a bipolar distributions with EEF's and HG's - the ANE distribution among modern populations, if light enough, is nevertheless stronger than in past and its almost LEVEL distribution in Europe shows us (I think) yhis ANE is not due to later steppic invasions (Huns, Magyars, Mongols) - and these I-Eans for me was not only ANE so their weight is surely stronger than said by someones here and there...
so, Yes, I-Eans were not a "pure race", they were not 100% the same mean mix in every tribe, they incorporated other people on their way, but they are not only a languge passers group - their way of life was not the better way to acculturate other people only culturally - SO I don't agree the restrictive theory of ONLY a cultural domination without blood and bones - surely the %s of I-Ean "blood" is unleven, but not so abruptly - the fact seems be they found different mixtures pf componentsamong the diverse populations they colonized.

 

[MOESAN]

I add I think the most of them came from the Steppes whatever the very geographical origin ot hte first P-I-E speakers