Society Life has got better over the last 50 years in many countries, but not in the Americas

Maciamo

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Pew Research conducted a worldwide survey asking people whether life is better now than it was 50 years ago. The majority of people life in Asia, Australia, Canada and most of Europe (with notable exceptions such as France, Italy and Greece) believed that life has indeed got better. But surprisingly respondents from the USA, Latin America (except Chile) and most African countries surveyed believe that the quality of life has deteriorated over the two last generations, despite all the technological innovations and increased life expectancy. Why could that be?

PG_2017.12.5_Life-Better-or-Worse_00.png



They survey found that younger and more educated people are more likely to say that life is better now. This is especially true in Europe. Conversely, Europeans voting for populist/extremist parties are more likely to take a dim view of the present and be nostalgic about the past. These are typically older and less educated people, including a lot of laid off factory workers.


PG_2017.12.5_Life-Better-or-Worse_06.png



The only places where more educated people were much more negative about present life conditions are Turkey and Nigeria. The reason is that these countries have seen a resurgence of Islam and discrimination, imprisonment and killings of intellectuals. Religious Turks and Muslim Nigerians see life now as much better, while secular Turks and Christian Nigerians have more misgivings.

PG_2017.12.5_Life-Better-or-Worse_05.png




But all this doesn't explain why most Latin Americans and about half of US citizens are so nostalgic about the past. The situation is understandable for the poorer, less educated half of the US population, which has suffered from globalisation and robotisation far more than their European counterparts. A huge underclass is developing in the USA, as the rich keep getting richer and the poor poorer.

But what about Latin America? The economy of most countries has developed dramatically over the last 50 years. What is making them so gloomy?
 
I believe it has to do a lot with the credit system as a whole. In the US it is so easy to get credit for anything as long as you have a job. And then get heavily into debt. So it feels like you are constantly fighting an uphill battle. Not matter how many luxury items you might possess.
 
I think the economic aspect of it is only part of the dissatisfaction. A lot of it has to do with cultural, and demographic change. In regards to U.S., Italy, Greece, and France. With Italy, and Greece, taking the brunt of massive waves of third-world immigration. Thus, this also explains why people who subscribe to populist parties, are dissatisfied in other countries.

I don't have any insight into why it is this way in Latin America. But perhaps it has to do with political upheaval; as well the violence, and plight caused by drug cartels.

Socially, among american youths there's been a rise in narcissism and decrease of empathy. Which can lead to unhappiness, as well as a lack of compassion and morality. Thus, it would affect the society as a whole. This has been increasing over the past 30 years.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...s-narcissism-increasing-among-young-americans
 
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I think the economic aspect of it is only part of the dissatisfaction. A lot of it has to do with cultural, and demographic change. In regards to U.S., Italy, Greece, and France. With Italy, and Greece, taking the brunt of massive waves of third-world immigration. Thus, this also explains why people who subscribe to populist parties, are dissatisfied in other countries.

I don't have any insight into why it is this way in Latin America. But perhaps it has to do with political upheaval; as well the violence, and plight caused by drug cartels.

Socially, among american youths there's been a rise in narcissism and decrease of empathy. Which can lead to unhappiness, as well as a lack of compassion and morality. Thus, it would affect the society as a whole. This has been increasing over the past 30 years.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...s-narcissism-increasing-among-young-americans

Exactly so. It's not only about economics, although that's a big part of it. It's other factors as well. It's part of the reason why Donald Trump is president.
 
Sheer ignorance -and ignorance in America is at its most awful when it has to do with history or geography - and pessimistic and over the top self-criticism being very much in vogue and almost "trendy" for supposedly "critical thinkers" in the Americas. I know many myself: they think that in order to be a well informed person who cares about justice and the people's wellbeing compels you to necessarily adopt the bleakest discourse and always the most negative data to promote your own, specific "solution for the woes of the country". It's easier to convince people if they think they have everything to lose and that they need an urgent solution to "make our country great again". Populism is extremely, well, popular in the Americas as a whole. I thought the US or Canada were a little more sheltered from it, but after Trump I've really changed my mind.
 
I don't have any insight into why it is this way in Latin America. But perhaps it has to do with political upheaval; as well the violence, and plight caused by drug cartels.
You're totally right. Crime rates grew so astoundingly that the population feels under constant tension and terror, and inevitably as always they tend to paint the past with rosy colors, forgetting the awful conditions of life and education 50 or 60 years ago in Latin America, because many people think or even say that "we were dirt poor, but we at least had peace".
 
I think the economic aspect of it is only part of the dissatisfaction. A lot of it has to do with cultural, and demographic change. In regards to U.S., Italy, Greece, and France. With Italy, and Greece, taking the brunt of massive waves of third-world immigration. Thus, this also explains why people who subscribe to populist parties, are dissatisfied in other countries.

That is simply not true for Italy and Greece. Pew Research actually published statistics about the number of Muslims by country in Europe and projections for future numbers. Greece had very few Muslims before the Syrian refugee crisis and now they make up 5.7% of the population. That's the same as Norway and less than Sweden, Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, France or the UK. Italy has even less Muslims (4.8%). Stats about religion are more reliable than about nationality as many immigrants eventually become naturalised, especially in places like France and the UK.

By the way, the projections on the growth of the Muslim population in Europe are very worrying. Here are the projections in the best case scenario of a zero immigration from Muslim countries for the next 33 years.

PF_11.29.17_muslims-update-21.png


Here is the medium migration scenario (most likely).

PF_11.29.17_muslims-update-22.png


And the high migration scenario (catastrophic, conjures up images about the collapse of the Western civilisation in Europe):

PF_11.29.17_muslims-update-23.png
 
Socially, among american youths there's been a rise in narcissism and decrease of empathy. Which can lead to unhappiness, as well as a lack of compassion and morality. Thus, it would affect the society as a whole. This has been increasing over the past 30 years.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...s-narcissism-increasing-among-young-americans

I think that's a general trend in all developed countries. Yet Canadians, Brits, Australians, Germans, Scandinavians, etc. aren't less happy or don't feel that life was better 50 years ago.
 
in developped countries, there is a growing sense of not having its own faith in hands
there are to many new rules and regulations, often influenced by lobbyists who tell that they are responsable for whatever goes wrong in the world
they feel the leaders don't listen to the people any more, everything happens above their heads
even when the economy improves, possibilities and prospects become more narrow

yes, that's why they try Trump now
 
That is simply not true for Italy and Greece. Pew Research actually published statistics about the number of Muslims by country in Europe and projections for future numbers. Greece had very few Muslims before the Syrian refugee crisis and now they make up 5.7% of the population. That's the same as Norway and less than Sweden, Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, France or the UK. Italy has even less Muslims (4.8%). Stats about religion are more reliable than about nationality as many immigrants eventually become naturalised, especially in places like France and the UK.

By the way, the projections on the growth of the Muslim population in Europe are very worrying. Here are the projections in the best case scenario of a zero immigration from Muslim countries for the next 33 years.

PF_11.29.17_muslims-update-21.png


Here is the medium migration scenario (most likely).

PF_11.29.17_muslims-update-22.png


And the high migration scenario (catastrophic, conjures up images about the collapse of the Western civilisation in Europe):

PF_11.29.17_muslims-update-23.png

Before it even becomes a question of ethics there should be a pragmatic response that prefaces it: "can we pull this off if we believe it to be the morally necessary thing to do?."


Even the zero immigration scenario is in my opinion beyond the capabilities of the current states. They wont know how to manage it, and no governmental mechanisms exist as of yet for mass integration. Arrogance and ignorance.

It will cause a lot of misery for all parties involved.
 
That is simply not true for Italy and Greece. Pew Research actually published statistics about the number of Muslims by country in Europe and projections for future numbers. Greece had very few Muslims before the Syrian refugee crisis and now they make up 5.7% of the population. That's the same as Norway and less than Sweden, Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, France or the UK. Italy has even less Muslims (4.8%). Stats about religion are more reliable than about nationality as many immigrants eventually become naturalised, especially in places like France and the UK.
By the way, the projections on the growth of the Muslim population in Europe are very worrying. Here are the projections in the best case scenario of a zero immigration from Muslim countries for the next 33 years.
PF_11.29.17_muslims-update-21.png

Here is the medium migration scenario (most likely).
PF_11.29.17_muslims-update-22.png

And the high migration scenario (catastrophic, conjures up images about the collapse of the Western civilisation in Europe):
PF_11.29.17_muslims-update-23.png

However, that doesn't account for the percent of christian refugees that are also entering the country:

76ovZoi.png

http://graphics.thomsonreuters.com/15/migrants/index.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Eritrea
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nigeria
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Ghana
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Ivory_Coast
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Democratic_Republic_of_the_Congo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Kenya

Also, this is cumulative with other ethnic groups that have been immigrating over the years. Generally people from Greece, and Italy, see this as a cause for dissatisfaction:

XTthWyG.png

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/09/16/european-opinions-of-the-refugee-crisis-in-5-charts/
 

it remains a fact that Italy and Greece are the main entry port of those so-called refugees but very few want to stay there and the large majority travels further north, Christians or Muslims alike

and no, like many others I don't believe this growing 'diversity' makes Europe a better place to live
some authorities (like Junker recently) claim Europe needs immigrants as working force or for special skills, but they offer very few arguments to prove that these 'refugees' are fit to fulfill any of these needs
 
it remains a fact that Italy and Greece are the main entry port of those so-called refugees but very few want to stay there and the large majority travels further north, Christians or Muslims alike
and no, like many others I don't believe this growing 'diversity' makes Europe a better place to live
some authorities (like Junker recently) claim Europe needs immigrants as working force or for special skills, but they offer very few arguments to prove that these 'refugees' are fit to fulfill any of these needs

I agree with you.

Most of them are seeking to go to northern Europe, and are seeking economic benefits there. However, due to policies like the Dublin Regulation, countries like Italy and Greece, get overburdened with asylum seekers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubli...uspension_during_2015_European_migrant_crisis

Sheer ignorance -and ignorance in America is at its most awful when it has to do with history or geography - and pessimistic and over the top self-criticism being very much in vogue and almost "trendy" for supposedly "critical thinkers" in the Americas. I know many myself: they think that in order to be a well informed person who cares about justice and the people's wellbeing compels you to necessarily adopt the bleakest discourse and always the most negative data to promote your own, specific "solution for the woes of the country". It's easier to convince people if they think they have everything to lose and that they need an urgent solution to "make our country great again". Populism is extremely, well, popular in the Americas as a whole. I thought the US or Canada were a little more sheltered from it, but after Trump I've really changed my mind.

I realize this is a thorny subject. However, I don't think any population seeking to regulate immigration, and preserve demographic and cultural norms is ignorant nor is it racist. Nevertheless, it doesn't serve any good when actual racists jump on board the band wagon. I don't think they should flat-out close the boarders, but bring the number of people admitted, to a much lower number. Something that won't dramatically change the country, or provide a political party an endless reservoir to bolster to their constituency.
 
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As your chart shows, the majority of the immigration to Italy is from Africa, and not just North Africa, so they're not all Muslim. Therefore, the figures about Muslim immigrants in Italy aren't the whole story.

Plus, it costs money to rescue them, set up camps, etc. etc. and if your economy is already stressed the impact will be worse.

People are extremely unhappy about all of this. Nor is the government "relocation" project a good idea. I guess they didn't want to create "ghettos" the way they did in places like Belgium, so they've been scattering them around. They dumped some groups of these immigrants in my own area. For the first time, people in these villages, who never locked their doors, are getting robbed and there are some assaults on the street. No one ever had to worry about this sort of thing, or about children roaming around. Now there are problems in the schools. They don't mess around in the school system there. Children are regularly failed for a whole year or for certain subjects. Now all of a sudden there are "protests" about it. It's a mess, as even the people who were initially fine with the idea now acknowledge.
 
Most of them are seeking to go to northern Europe, and are seeking economic benefits there. However, due to policies like the Dublin Regulation, countries like Italy and Greece, get overburdened with asylum seekers.

Once again, that isn't true. Check this list of refugees by country per 1000 inhabitants. Greece has 0.75 refugees per 1000 inhabitants, less than Monaco, Ireland or the USA, which are at the bottom of the list for Western countries. Sweden has 14.66, almost 20 times more than Greece! Norway has 9.14, Switzerland 8.45, Austria 7.13, the Netherlands 4.89, Canada 4.19, France 4.13, Serbia 3.97, Denmark 3.15, Germany 3.1, Belgium 2.77, Russia 2.2, Finland 2.15, the UK 1.82, Italy 1.57, Australia 1.51...

In the western half of Europe, only Spain and Portugal have less refugees per capita than Italy and Greece! The fact that Australia and Canada have more than Greece despite the distance from the refugees' country of origin is proof enough that Greece is almost immune to the issue despite being at the crossroads of Europe and the Middle East. I guess that the sorry state of the Greek economy is one reason why refugees don't settle there.
 
I suggest look at this

by EU Parliament

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/external/html/welcomingeurope/default_el.htm

that is seeking for Asylum
not the illegal immigrants
neither the crosspassing

it seems Slovakia and Baltic countries are out of question for Asylon
per total population. 145 per 5 400 000 and 990 refuggees
while Deutshland attrack the 50% and more of total asking asylon people
 
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Once again, that isn't true. Check this list of refugees by country per 1000 inhabitants. Greece has 0.75 refugees per 1000 inhabitants, less than Monaco, Ireland or the USA, which are at the bottom of the list for Western countries. Sweden has 14.66, almost 20 times more than Greece! Norway has 9.14, Switzerland 8.45, Austria 7.13, the Netherlands 4.89, Canada 4.19, France 4.13, Serbia 3.97, Denmark 3.15, Germany 3.1, Belgium 2.77, Russia 2.2, Finland 2.15, the UK 1.82, Italy 1.57, Australia 1.51...

In the western half of Europe, only Spain and Portugal have less refugees per capita than Italy and Greece! The fact that Australia and Canada have more than Greece despite the distance from the refugees' country of origin is proof enough that Greece is almost immune to the issue despite being at the crossroads of Europe and the Middle East. I guess that the sorry state of the Greek economy is one reason why refugees don't settle there.

Maciamo, I don't know how the statistics are computed for that list. Most of the migrants coming to Italy are not "refugees" from anything except poverty, at least the ones who are from SSA, so I don't know if they're included in those statistics.
 
Maciamo, I don't know how the statistics are computed. Most of the migrants coming to Italy are not "refugees" from anything except poverty, at least the ones who are from SSA, so I don't know if they're included in those statistics.

those who don't apply for asylum are illegal and are to be detained till they can be sent back to their country of origin
that is something the EU and their memberstates failed to do for so long and this and 'wir schaffen dass' have been the main triggers for the '2015 asylum crisis'
that is what caused the 'refugee camp' in Calais
time to get organised and handle things properly
 
I realize this is a thorny subject. However, I don't think any population seeking to regulate immigration, and preserve demographic and cultural norms is ignorant nor is it racist. Nevertheless, it doesn't serve any good when actual racists jump on board the band wagon. I don't think they should flat-out close the boarders, but bring the number of people admitted, to a much lower number. Something that won't dramatically change the country, or provide a political party an endless reservoir to bolster to their constituency.

I'm not talking specifically about immigration. I certainly do not think we can blame higher levels of immigration alone for the fact that most US Americans have such a totally ignorant pessimism to think or even claim that the conditions of life (health, education etc.) and the rights of people in 2017 are worse than those 50 or 60 years ago. That requires a profound misunderstanding and a populist sensationalism to make such a distorted view catch on. Also, immigration can't explain the relative pessimism of many other people in the other countries of the Americas, all of whom lack really large immigration since the 1960s.
 
I'm not talking specifically about immigration. I certainly do not think we can blame higher levels of immigration alone for the fact that most US Americans have such a totally ignorant pessimism to think or even claim that the conditions of life (health, education etc.) and the rights of people in 2017 are worse than those 50 or 60 years ago. That requires a profound misunderstanding and a populist sensationalism to make such a distorted view catch on. Also, immigration can't explain the relative pessimism of many other people in the other countries of the Americas, all of whom lack really large immigration since the 1960s.

Ygorcs,
I can't speak for Latin America, but I know about the U.S. Non college educated white Americans are definitely worse off than they were thirty years ago.

Their factory jobs are gone overseas. A lot of the rest of the manual labor jobs have been taken by immigrants, legal and non-legal. The power of unions has been whittled away. Rust belt cities are indeed "rusting" away, and their old ethnic neighborhoods in the inner cities are now black and Hispanic slums. They have to take jobs paying not much more than minimum wage, so they need to work two or three jobs. The resulting depressions means they smoke more, drink, more. For the first time in I don't know how long the health and longevity of that population is declining. It's affecting women too. Their children don't have much of a future so they are increasingly taking as much drugs as the kids in the ghettos. Crack and heroin are decimating many lower class or working class neighborhoods. This is what globalization, robots, etc. which so many people laud, has done to them. Meanwhile the religious values they used to hold onto are scorned and degraded.

This is all documented. It's what elected Donald Trump. The handwriting on the wall was when working class whites in the upper Midwest joined the working class whites in the south and turned away from the Democratic party.

I've been saying this would happen for years, on this forum too. Once it happened everybody was talking about it. Now? It's ignored again. All the talking heads are saying they can't understand why after all the crap in the papers Trump has still managed to hold onto his "base". It's clear as day; they're just too stupid to see it, because they're living in their upper middle class cocoons.
 

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