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Light pigmentation appears to have been much more common among the GAC (Globular Amphora Neolithic) than among the Yamnaya population.

It seems that as a mean CWC people were a bit lighter than Yamna people, but were darker than BB of central and northwestern Europe. If I rely on the Genetiker charts, the pigmentation didn't change too much between BB's, northwestern BA and IA, Celts or not. the same for western Hallstatt and La Tène, but central (Hungary, Czechia) Hallstatt and La Tène seemed lighter than BB's spite not as light as the later Germanics (Scandinavia and Germany/the Netherlands). I think some GAC input is the cause of these lighter pigmentation means in Central Europe, already among CWC's compared to Yamna's. Some kind of selection to be analysed has been at work to produce these light Germanics.
 
I add the rather Germanic people of England since 500 CE were as light as Scandinavians, (55 to 70% light for hair) in opposition to the late IA people of England which were very close to BB's and BA Celts (22-25% light).
 
That's weird considering that the GAC were Sardinian-like and modern Sardinians are not light-pigmented.
 
Tomenable said:
That's weird considering that the GAC were Sardinian-like and modern Sardinians are not light-pigmented.
Click to expand...
Not that weird if you consider that autosomal DNA isn’t tied to pigmentation. A blonde Pashtun is not that different from a dark haired Pashtun, autosomal wise. The same is true for skin and eye color and probably to many other traits.

Keep in mind, the farmers in Northern and Eastern Europe tend to be lighter than their counterparts in Southern Europe, just before the Steppe invasion started and mixing between those Northern farmers groups and Steppe derived populations happened.

Also, you can’t not compare modern populations to ancient ones. A lot of selection can happen in short time. Take for example lactase persistence. It saw a massive increase in relative recent time.
 
Anfänger said:
Not that weird if you consider that autosomal DNA isn’t tied to pigmentation. A blonde Pashtun is not that different from a dark haired Pashtun, autosomal wise. The same is true for skin and eye color and probably to many other traits.

Keep in mind, the farmers in Northern and Eastern Europe tend to be lighter than their counterparts in Southern Europe, just before the Steppe invasion started and mixing between those Northern farmers groups and Steppe derived populations happened.

Also, you can’t not compare modern populations to ancient ones. A lot of selection can happen in short time. Take for example lactase persistence. It saw a massive increase in relative recent time.
Click to expand...
You're right but I'm not sure the selective pressures keep the same strength according to way of life and technical and medical progress. Concerning the blond hair I don't see any natural pressure to select it per se unless the SNP's producing it had at the same time an input on skin colour selection; but it could be the case for certain blond hairs genes... Selection has it limits and very often we don't find a 100% score. Surely some polygenic more or less balanced systems are at work.
&: I'm almost sure the selective pressure on pigmentation is very slowed down todate for several not too evident reasons apparently.
 
Anfänger said:
Not that weird if you consider that autosomal DNA isn’t tied to pigmentation. A blonde Pashtun is not that different from a dark haired Pashtun, autosomal wise. The same is true for skin and eye color and probably to many other traits.

Keep in mind, the farmers in Northern and Eastern Europe tend to be lighter than their counterparts in Southern Europe, just before the Steppe invasion started and mixing between those Northern farmers groups and Steppe derived populations happened.

Also, you can’t not compare modern populations to ancient ones. A lot of selection can happen in short time. Take for example lactase persistence. It saw a massive increase in relative recent time.
Click to expand...
You're right but I'm not sure the selective pressures keep the same strength according to way of life and technical and medical progress. Concerning the blond hair I don't see any natural pressure to select it per se unless the SNP's producing it had at the same time an input on skin colour selection; but it could be the case for certain blond hairs genes... Selection has it limits and very often we don't find a 100% score. Surely some polygenic more or less balanced systems are at work.
&: I'm almost sure the selective pressure on pigmentation is very slowed down todate for several not too evident reasons apparently.
 
Anfänger said:
Not that weird if you consider that autosomal DNA isn’t tied to pigmentation. A blonde Pashtun is not that different from a dark haired Pashtun, autosomal wise. The same is true for skin and eye color and probably to many other traits.

Keep in mind, the farmers in Northern and Eastern Europe tend to be lighter than their counterparts in Southern Europe, just before the Steppe invasion started and mixing between those Northern farmers groups and Steppe derived populations happened.

Also, you can’t not compare modern populations to ancient ones. A lot of selection can happen in short time. Take for example lactase persistence. It saw a massive increase in relative recent time.
Click to expand...
You're right but I'm not sure the selective pressures keep the same strength according to way of life and technical and medical progress. Concerning the blond hair I don't see any natural pressure to select it per se unless the SNP's producing it had at the same time an input on skin colour selection; but it could be the case for certain blond hairs genes... Selection has it limits and very often we don't find a 100% score. Surely some polygenic more or less balanced systems are at work.
&: I'm almost sure the selective pressure on pigmentation is very slowed down todate for several not too evident reasons apparently.
 
MOESAN said:
You're right but I'm not sure the selective pressures keep the same strength according to way of life and technical and medical progress. Concerning the blond hair I don't see any natural pressure to select it per se unless the SNP's producing it had at the same time an input on skin colour selection; but it could be the case for certain blond hairs genes... Selection has it limits and very often we don't find a 100% score. Surely some polygenic more or less balanced systems are at work.
&: I'm almost sure the selective pressure on pigmentation is very slowed down todate for several not too evident reasons apparently.
Click to expand...
Yes, i agree.the selective pressure seem to be completely different in modern times because of way of life, technical and medical progress like you just said but I remember a paper in which they showed that blue eyes still get positively selected in Great Britain. So there is at least to some degree a continuity.

We don’t know the selective pressure concerning blonde hair. It could be environmental or sexual. There needs to be a lot more research till we get a good explanation. The research in this field is still in its infancy.
 
Anfänger said:
Yes, i agree.the selective pressure seem to be completely different in modern times because of way of life, technical and medical progress like you just said but I remember a paper in which they showed that blue eyes still get positively selected in Great Britain. So there is at least to some degree a continuity.

We don’t know the selective pressure concerning blonde hair. It could be environmental or sexual. There needs to be a lot more research till we get a good explanation. The research in this field is still in its infancy.
Click to expand...
interesting what you say about Britain. But I have doubts; the immigration there is weak enough concerning pure "whites" and I doubt about sexual selection, even if I know social/professional selection for blue eyes can exist in the movies world by example. I wonder if valuable surveys are still made on the pigmentation side with reliable methods, because it is no more the focus todate? What I believe I have observed is a growing of darker hues or a loss of lighter hues for hair in Britain (in England proper) but I don't know if it's only an internal phenomenon (drift) or if it's due to more immigration from "Celtic" lands, Welsh and Irish people, or both; If internal it could also concern the industrial areas families where post-generations sedimentation of "Celts" immigrants are well represented: have they more numerous families? As a whole Coon had observed that the higher classes in Britain had lighter hair than the working classes. For eyes, if I consider the above hypothesis of mine (to be confirmed or not) Irish spite often ligh eyed have not more light eyes than English people proper. Do take my words with a taste of salt, only guesses for now.
 
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