Modelling Admixture with D-stats

[Fire Haired14]

Looking at Basal-rich K7 D-stats, it apears that there are some flaws already. According to Eurogene Basal-rich K7, the Bedouins are 20% Villabruna. Villabruna cluster can from a hunter whom lived in Villabruna, Itally 14,000 ybp

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tFAa7oxWpcNN-OdMMjBdb4NeWKG7EkpKMzZJVW2_MME/htmlview

People related to Villabruna contributed ancestry to Bedouin. You shouldn't have trouble believing people from Italy migrated as far east as Arabia, considering the long range migrations ancient DNA has documented. I'm not claiming people from Italy migrated to Arabia, I'msaying that mentioning Villabruna lived in Italy 14,000 years ago shouldn't make you doubt Bedouin have ancestry related to Villabruna.

 

[Fire Haired14]

@Angela,

Your lack of trust for David Wesolski's work is unfounded. He doesn't try to reduce Middle Easternism. Kud is not as good, there's no point in even arguing who's better. I dont like him trying to estimate Basal Eurasian ancestry, but his formal stat work he does it supports themodel inhisnew ADMIXTURE test.

 

[Twilight]

People related to Villabruna contributed ancestry to Bedouin. You shouldn't have trouble believing people from Italy migrated as far east as Arabia, considering the long range migrations ancient DNA has documented. I'm not claiming people from Italy migrated to Arabia, I'msaying that mentioning Villabruna lived in Italy 14,000 years ago shouldn't make you doubt Bedouin have ancestry related to Villabruna.

Although I do realize that the Crusaders possibly settled in the Middle East not enough knights were recruited to make a huge mark as far asMiddle Eastern Ydna I levels go. The only noticeable record of Ydna I is in Turkey and surrounding provinces. 14,000 ybp was dominated by Ydna C, H2 and I and possibly E tribes, however Ydna I is mostly absent in the Middle East besides Turkey.
How can an ancient component leave it's mark on a culture without passing down it's Ydna, especially a whopping 20-35% in Middle Eastern Civilizations?

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/neolithic_europe_map.shtml#mesolithic
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedouin
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml

 

[Fire Haired14]

WHG in the Middle East is not from Crusades because ancient genomes tell us it has been in the Middle East since the Paleolithic. If the Basal Eurasian+Paleo North Eurasian-like theory is correct, WHG are the best proxy for the non-Basal side of Natufian and Anatolia_Neolithic. The Middle East has ancestry related to WHG, this is fact, exactly where it comes from is unknown. Their ancestors who were related to WHG didn't need to have Y DNA I or mtDNA U5 to be related to WHG.

 

[Twilight]

WHG in the Middle East is not from Crusades because ancient genomes tell us it has been in the Middle East since the Paleolithic. If the Basal Eurasian+Paleo North Eurasian-like theory is correct, WHG are the best proxy for the non-Basal side of Natufian and Anatolia_Neolithic. The Middle East has ancestry related to WHG, this is fact, exactly where it comes from is unknown. Their ancestors who were related to WHG didn't need to have Y DNA I or mtDNA U5 to be related to WHG.

Thanks for the clarification, going to see if I can do some research on this subject.
Never heard of that theory before but if Basal Eurasians exist and this tree is correct --> ( http://anthromadness.blogspot.com/2015/02/basal-eurasian_17.html ), then the Basal Culture must be breathtakingly ancient. The Onge (YDNA D and Mtdna M predominate tribes apparently) arrived in the Andaman Islands 48,500 ybp and is 1st cousins once removed to IJK like tribe; ANE WHG and EEF most recent common ancestor; who knows how many thousands of year old these Basal Europeans are at this point.

Never the less Angela has a point, we need a skeleton dna sample. If it's true that Basal Eurasians existed and took part in the ethnogenesis of EEF, I have a hunch we'll uncover our Basal Eurasian ancestor in the Desert somewhere in the Middle East.
​

Source:

• ^ ^{a b} M. Phillip Endicott; Thomas P. Gilbert; Chris Stringer; Carles Lalueza-Fox; Eske Willerslev; Anders J. Hansen; Alan Cooper (2003). "The Genetic Origins of the Andaman Islanders"(PDF). American Journal of Human Genetics. 72 (1): 178–184. doi:10.1086/345487. PMC 378623
  
  . PMID 12478481. Retrieved 21 April2009. The HVR‑1 data separate them into two lineages, identified on the Indian mainland ... as M4 and M2 ... The Andamanese M2 contains two haplotypes ... developed in situ, after an early colonization ... Alternatively, it is possible that the haplotypes have become extinct in India or are present at a low frequency and have not yet been sampled, but, in each case, an early settlement of the Andaman Islands by an M2‑bearing population is implied ... The Andaman M4 haplotype ... is still present among populations in India, suggesting it was subject to the late Pleistocene population expansions....
• ^ ^{a b c d e} Reich, David; Kumarasamy Thangaraj; Nick Patterson; Alkes L. Price; Lalji Singh (24 September 2009). "Reconstructing Indian Population History". Nature. 461 (7263): 489–494. doi:10.1038/nature08365. PMC 2842210
  
  . PMID 19779445.
• ^ Moorjani, Priya; Kumarasamy Thangaraj; Nick Patterson; Alkes L. Price; Lalji Singh; David Reich (5 September 2013). "Genetic Evidence for Recent Population Mixture in India". American Journal of Human Genetics. 93 (3): 422–438. doi:10.1016/j.ajhg.2013.07.006. PMC 3769933
  
  . PMID 23932107.

Sent from my iPad​

 

[Angela]

Looking at Basal-rich K7 D-stats, it apears that there are some flaws already. According to Eurogene Basal-rich K7, the Bedouins are 20% Villabruna. Villabruna cluster can from a hunter whom lived in Villabruna, Itally 14,000 ybp

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tFAa7oxWpcNN-OdMMjBdb4NeWKG7EkpKMzZJVW2_MME/htmlview

Take a look at the "basal rich" numbers for modern Armenians. They're at about 58%. According to Lazaridis, Yamnaya is half EHG and half "modern Armenian like". For a simplistic take on that, this would make Yamnaya close to 30% basal rich, but all of a sudden some of them are only 12% basal rich.

I'll say it again. I personally don't have much interest in how much "Basal" everyone has, but if that's something of interest, then we have to wait until we find a "Basal Eurasian" sample.

 

[davef]

FireHaired, can you explain the discrepancy that Angela pointed out? I'm not flat out saying the data is wrong (besides, I'm in no position to deem it correct/incorrect).

 

[Fire Haired14]

FireHaired, can you explain the discrepancy that Angela pointed out? I'm not flat out saying the data is wrong (besides, I'm in no position to deem it correct/incorrect).

No. Accurate tests won't make perfect sense. I will add though that David intentionally changed the test several times so Yamnaya would score higher Basal Eurasian not lower Basal Eurasian.

 

[davef]

No problem! Glad he saw the discrepancy and made attempts to boost up the basal.

 

[Twilight]

No. Accurate tests won't make perfect sense. I will add though that David intentionally changed the test several times so Yamnaya would score higher Basal Eurasian not lower Basal Eurasian.

Does this mean that Davidski is declaring that Middle Paleolithic Basal Eurasians were living in the Caucasus?