My grandfather,Chinese,hui people,T1a-Z709-Y46771

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ghazi du

ghazi du

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我的祖父是中国的少数民族。Haplotype is T1a3b2a1b一些回族祖先来自中东，比如祖父的祖先祖先。你有关于这种单倍型的信息吗？我的英语不是很好。我的语气非常谦虚和友好。
 
My grandfather is a minority in China. The haplotype is T1a3b2a1b.Some Hui ancestors came from the Middle East, such as my grandfather's paternal ancestors. Do you have any information about this haplotype?My English is not very good. My tone is very modest and friendly.I am sorry for the mistake in Chinese above.
 
ghazi du said:
My grandfather is a minority in China. The haplotype is T1a3b2a1b.Some Hui ancestors came from the Middle East, such as my grandfather's paternal ancestors. Do you have any information about this haplotype?My English is not very good. My tone is very modest and friendly.I am sorry for the mistake in Chinese above.
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hi

interesting, but the oldest T1a3 found. IIRC. was in south Kazaks ...............sample DA125 ...............I will get back to you on the paper of this sample

DA125, T1a3a1a1-Y13279

from

[h=2]137 ancient human genomes from across the Eurasian steppes[/h]
For thousands of years the Eurasian steppes have been a centre of human migrations and cultural change. Here we sequence the genomes of 137 ancient humans (about 1× average coverage), covering a period of 4,000 years, to understand the population history of the Eurasian steppes after the Bronze Age migrations. We find that the genetics of the Scythian groups that dominated the Eurasian steppes throughout the Iron Age were highly structured, with diverse origins comprising Late Bronze Age herders, European farmers and southern Siberian hunter-gatherers. Later, Scythians admixed with the eastern steppe nomads who formed the Xiongnu confederations, and moved westward in about the second or third century BC, forming the Hun traditions in the fourth–fifth century AD, and carrying with them plague that was basal to the Justinian plague. These nomads were further admixed with East Asian groups during several short-term khanates in the Medieval period. These historical events transformed the Eurasian steppes from being inhabited by Indo-European speakers of largely West Eurasian ancestry to the mostly Turkic-speaking groups of the present day, who are primarily of East Asian ancestry.


https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0094-2
​
 
Thank you for your reply.In fact, you probably don't know much about Chinese history. If I'm wrong, please forgive me.During the Yuan Dynasty in China, a large number of Mongolians caught Semu .[FONT=Arial, PingFang SC, Hiragino Sans GB, STHeiti, Microsoft YaHei, WenQuanYi Micro Hei, sans-serif]Semu[/FONT] means some white people in the Western Regions.During the Yuan Dynasty, some Middle Eastern businessmen came to China to do business.Actually, I tested my grandfather's paternal haplotype.On YFULL, two Iraqis and one Saudi Arabian are related to my grandfather.The total ancestor time seems to be about 4600 years.Of course, I didn't pay later, so there was no more news.Is paternal T related to Sumerians? I like Sumerian civilization and ancient Egyptian civilization very much.

Thank you again for your reply.：）
 
I'm sorry I made a mistake earlier.Semu is mean Appellation of Mongolian, Han (including Korea and Khitan), Southern Han and various ethnic groups in the Yuan Dynasty，Including the white people in the West (Caucasus, Aryan, Semites, etc.) that I originally mentioned.
 
ghazi du said:
Thank you for your reply.In fact, you probably don't know much about Chinese history. If I'm wrong, please forgive me.During the Yuan Dynasty in China, a large number of Mongolians caught Semu .Semu means some white people in the Western Regions.During the Yuan Dynasty, some Middle Eastern businessmen came to China to do business.Actually, I tested my grandfather's paternal haplotype.On YFULL, two Iraqis and one Saudi Arabian are related to my grandfather.The total ancestor time seems to be about 4600 years.Of course, I didn't pay later, so there was no more news.Is paternal T related to Sumerians? I like Sumerian civilization and ancient Egyptian civilization very much.

Thank you again for your reply.：）
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I think the Kurds and Armenians have the highest percentage of T in the middle -east

But it depends on which branch
T1a1
T1a2
T1a3
or
T2-PH110

Sumerians had T .....but a recent net paper ( I cannot confirm this ) but it states that the ancient Assyrian of NW IraQ had 41% of T

the most ancient though appear in Neolithic Germany , Karsdorf
Bulgaria
and North Swiss .............these are all 7000 years old

There is another recent paper that some came from Black sea and stopped in the levant , but left .....I will try to find it ........IIRC 12 samples of which 11 had blue eyes which was odd for the paper
 
Is this your branch ?

[h=1]Phylogeography of human Y-chromosome haplogroup T1a3-Y11151/FGC1350[/h]


Goal: To discover and analyze the 3rd branch (T1a3) of the T-Haplogroup that has yet to be scientifically analyzed and studied in depth. This branch is the smallest branch when compared to L131 (T1a2), L162 (T1a1) and has been generally overlooked. We aim to utilize Next Generation Sequencing (NGS) results to enhance our ability to detect SNPs and hence branch
 
Thank you very much.I can't find any information about T haplotypes on Chinese websites.In fact, I also saw this forum in the Hui ethnic group.Unfortunately, I'm a new user and can't send pictures.That is to say, haplotype T originated basically in Western Asia.？I will continue to follow the trend of this forum. I hope my shallow English level will be helpful.
 
ghazi du said:
Thank you very much.I can't find any information about T haplotypes on Chinese websites.In fact, I also saw this forum in the Hui ethnic group.Unfortunately, I'm a new user and can't send pictures.That is to say, haplotype T originated basically in Western Asia.？I will continue to follow the trend of this forum. I hope my shallow English level will be helpful.
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you can start here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_T-M184

there are some links to asian papers
 
ghazi du said:
My grandfather is a minority in China. The haplotype is T1a3b2a1b.Some Hui ancestors came from the Middle East, such as my grandfather's paternal ancestors. Do you have any information about this haplotype?My English is not very good. My tone is very modest and friendly.I am sorry for the mistake in Chinese above.
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Just curiosity, is your last name Ma, not Du?

Kunyang_-_Zheng_He_Park_-_P1350545.JPG

"
Ma Hajji, a Yuan Dynasty official in Yunnan (a descendant of Sayyid Ajjal Shams al-Din Omar), and his young son Ma He, future admiral Zheng He"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_He
 
：）, you have a certain understanding of this surname in China.Actually, this is my mother's father's haplotype.His surname is Cui. My own haplotype is O。My surname is Du.Many Hui people do have Ma's surname.But there are many other surnames.There is a saying that Zheng He was descended from Saidian Chi, an official of the Yuan Dynasty.However, Zheng He was a eunuch, and the descendants of Saidianchi, who had a family tree, tested that the haplotype was L.
 
ghazi du said:
：）, you have a certain understanding of this surname in China.Actually, this is my mother's father's haplotype.His surname is Cui. My own haplotype is O。My surname is Du.Many Hui people do have Ma's surname.But there are many other surnames.There is a saying that Zheng He was descended from Saidian Chi, an official of the Yuan Dynasty.However, Zheng He was a eunuch, and the descendants of Saidianchi, who had a family tree, tested that the haplotype was L.
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johen said:
Ma Hajji, a Yuan Dynasty official in Yunnan (a descendant of Sayyid Ajjal Shams al-Din Omar), and his young son Ma He, future admiral Zheng He"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_He
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looks like Saidian Chi and Sayyid-al-ajall Shames-al-din omar is the same person. I am not sure, but last name Omar seems to be changed to last name Ma?

Whether Sai-dian-chi Shan-si-ding (Sayyid-al-ajall Shames-al-din) is the ancestor ofthe Ding's family or not, is the problem that the historians and the people of the Ding's familyhave always been probing.Sayyid-al-ajall Shames-al-din (1211-1279 A.D.) was a famous Muslim politician inthe Yuan Dynasty, whose descendants now scatter over some provinces in China.
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I don't know the exact surname, either.But if He Zheng is his descendant, including his nephew, who succeeded him, it is reasonable that his surname should be Zheng。
 
I assume your forefathers were those Sogdian silk traders who later settled in China and created vibrant communities before being assimilated.
 
Caucasus said:
I assume your forefathers were those Sogdian silk traders who later settled in China and created vibrant communities before being assimilated.
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T was found among the Kangju individuals(of Damgaard et al 2018), these people are not Sogdians. The Kangju are probably BMAC people(originating from Neolithic Mesopotamia) mixed with Steppe people. I also think that the L found among Zheng He's family, the T found among several modern day Kazakh groups, and the T found among the Kangju are related to each other. The Kangju(under many tribal union names like Kangar, Kangli, Pechenek, Oghuz etc.) dominated parts of Central Asia hundreds of years. Their tribal name has affinity with the name of the Sumerians(Kenger) and the capital of the ancient region Turan named "Kang". I believe that during the invasions of Genghis Khan, the people of Kangju moved west towards Western Asia.
 
suyindik said:
T was found among the Kangju individuals(of Damgaard et al 2018), these people are not Sogdians. The Kangju are probably BMAC people(originating from Neolithic Mesopotamia) mixed with Steppe people. I also think that the L found among Zheng He's family, the T found among several modern day Kazakh groups, and the T found among the Kangju are related to each other. The Kangju(under many tribal union names like Kangar, Kangli, Pechenek, Oghuz etc.) dominated parts of Central Asia hundreds of years. Their tribal name has affinity with the name of the Sumerians(Kenger) and the capital of the ancient region Turan named "Kang". I believe that during the invasions of Genghis Khan, the people of Kangju moved west towards Western Asia.
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He is most probably from a Kazaks tribe as all 3 main T clades are found there ( T1a1, T1a2 and T1a3 )
a recent study


the oldest being an ancient sample DA125 which is T1a3 ( found mostly in kuwaits, western china ,eastern saudi and persian gulf area )

DA125 is older than any T in the Persian gulf area
 
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Very detailed answers. Thank you very much. Some of my friends think that it is a gradual migration from the Middle East to Central Asia and a transition to China rather than a direct migration to China from the beginning.
 
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