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We have DNA from kurgans in the Zeta plain, it doesn't get more 'Illyrian' than this. Believe whatever you want.

Link? Source? Actually Serbia has many tumuli in Novi Pazar, and also in Central Serbia from Moesian sites. Where are these dna results? Serbia is not very transparent when it comes to archaeology unfortunately.
 
Link? Source? Actually Serbia has many tumuli in Novi Pazar, and also in Central Serbia from Moesian sites. Where are these dna results? Serbia is not very transparent when it comes to archaeology unfortunately.

Actually I mixed things up, the kurgans are from the bay of Kotor. Similar to Iberians and Hungarians respectively:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9o3EYTdM8lQXy1feWVFYWp0WlE/view

Still early Illyrian, although Zeta plain would be earlier still if we go by Greek accounts.
 
...............
 
Actually I mixed things up, the kurgans are from the bay of Kotor. Similar to Iberians and Hungarians respectively:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9o3EYTdM8lQXy1feWVFYWp0WlE/view

Still early Illyrian, although Zeta plain would be earlier still if we go by Greek accounts.

Well Kotor is the coast, and it is still Northern/Dalmatian/Panonnian border zone. We can't build argument on inland illyrians and south illyrians based on that. The coasts were routinely grabbed by conquest, and the first to change over with transfer of power, etc. The first time the term "illyrian" is attested is around around 500-400 BC, and its used for southern and central illyrians. With entry of Romans it becomes applied all the way north north
 
Opinion of Vadim Verenich (author of MDLP calcs) about it...

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread...-ancient-Dutch&p=563682&viewfull=1#post563682

So they repeat the same mistake(s) that was already done by the forerunners.
From the results posted above, we can infer that the similarity metrics rely on IBS scores between pseudo-haploid genomes of ancient samples and fully diploid genomes of modern reference groups, which is rather nonsensical.
For the words of wisdom were spelled out:
1) Thou shalt not compare pseudo-haploids against diploids - render unto haploids the things that are haploids, and unto diploids the things that are diploids"
2) Thou shalt not take genomewide ancestry and IBS metrics for estimating ancestry in vain.
 
Well Kotor is the coast, and it is still Northern/Dalmatian/Panonnian border zone. We can't build argument on inland illyrians and south illyrians based on that. The coasts were routinely grabbed by conquest, and the first to change over with transfer of power, etc. The first time the term "illyrian" is attested is around around 500-400 BC, and its used for southern and central illyrians. With entry of Romans it becomes applied all the way north north

Hecateaus is the earliest IIRC, and he places them in the southern Dalmatian coastal area, i. e. right where these samples are. The Zeta plain is near the coast as well, and that's where the chiefly kurgans are.

No reason to think these weren't Illyrian.
 
Hecateaus is the earliest IIRC, and he places them in the southern Dalmatian coastal area, i. e. right where these samples are. The Zeta plain is near the coast as well, and that's where the chiefly kurgans are.

No reason to think these weren't Illyrian.

Correct Hecateus, here is the quote, the first Illyrian tribe we have mentioned with the term Illyrian:

"“Hecataeus in “Europe”. Chelidonians. An Illyrian people. Chelidonians live to the north of (the) Sesarethians”

The Chelidoni are the Taulanti. Chelidon means swallows in greece, dalland means swallow in Albanian.

The Sesarethians were around Lychnidus (lake ohrid) so this also matches taulanti location, north west of lake ohrid, central west Albania
 
imo

Part of my results related to the Adriatic Sea, show that in a genetic sense, the Illyrian Tribes that migrated to Northeast/Southeast Italy, were closely related to each other.

(assuming I have Illyrian traces)
Adriatic side:
Campania, Puglia, Calabria 36.2%
Tuscany, Emilia Romagna, Umbria 20.1%
Epirus, Central Greece, West Macedonia 9.3%
Northern Italy 4%
Italy, Friuli-Venezia Giulia 1.7%
Goriska, Gorenjska 2.6%
Krapina-Zagorje, Varazdin, Osijek-Baranja 1.8%
 
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cántabros
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantabri


Origin Spanish wikipedia


Estela Cantabrian Barros (Cantabria). Made of sandstone and with a base pier, its dimensions are 1.70 m in diameter and 0.32 m in thickness.
The study of the archaeological sites in the area where the cantabros are currently believed to be located reveals, on a Neolithic substratum, objects of a characteristic invoice of populations of the Danube region and the funerary culture of Campos de Urnas that could have arrived during the Bronze to settle later, during the second millennium a. C., around the high Ebro.


Both the gentilicios used by some tribes or Cantabrian clans - in particular the one of the orgenomescos / argentomescios? finally displaced to the more montane interior-, as well as equine cults, are similar to those of the Sarmatians and Moesios, Mekhi or Mycenaeans. The latter, of Indo-European language also, came from the regions north of the Danube and migrated to very remote places retaining their original names or variants, according to James P. Mallory. Although the foregoing does not allow to determine with certainty the original origin of these groups, genetic studies conducted in the current population of the region, detect in male genes a percentage mostly affiliated with haplogroup R-SRY2627 of Nordic origin, and to a lesser extent Haplogroup E E-M81 (4) from North Africa. The simultaneous presence of these haplotypes of African origin among the male population is considered original, and the great variety of origin of the mitochondrial haplogroups, among which those usually found in North Africa, suggest several possible successive influxes of Celtic populations close to Illyrians that could come from the Aegean region, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Albania and ancient Thrace where such genes are found today as well. Alternatively, some of these genetic subgroups of such disparate provenances may have reached Cantabria later during the Carthaginian or Roman domination of the Iberian Peninsula, even during the brief Muslim domination of the southern part of the region.


The dominant clan in the most fertile area and access to the high passes, the Plentusians / Plentuish ?, is related to the later culture of La Tène, properly Celtic and coming from the Lower Rhine.4 It could be of the first tribes evicted by Germanic tribes before 300 a. C.5 These are, perhaps, similar in etymology and identity to the Celtiberian Pelendons between the Ebro and Duero Rivers. [Citation needed]


Concanos, coniscos, salaens and other peoples may have been relegated to less favorable grazing areas. Within the tribal community they seem to represent Celtic Hallstatt groups or Paleolithic matrilineal genders related to the Basques, as Joaquín González Echegaray points out.

English wikipedia

[h=3]Origins[/h]The ancestors of the Cantabri were thought by the Romans to have migrated to the Iberian Peninsulaaround the 4th Century BC, and were said by them to be more mixed than most peninsular Celtic peoples, their eleven or so tribes, assessed by Roman writers according to their names, were supposed to have included Gallic, Celtiberian, Indo-Aryan, Aquitanian, and Ligurian origins.[citation needed]
A detailed analysis of place-names in ancient Cantabria shows a strong Celtic element along with an almost equally strong "Para-Celtic" element (both Indo-European) and thus disproves the idea of a substantial pre-Indo-European or Basque presence in the region. This supports the earlier view that Untermann considered the most plausible, coinciding with archaeological evidence put forward by Ruiz-Gálvez in 1998, that the Celtic settlement of the Iberian Peninsula was made by people who arrived via the Atlantic Ocean in an area between Brittany and the mouth of the River Garonne, finally settling along the Galician and Cantabrian coast.

The only Celtic population connection with Illyrian population first occurred in Noricum ( east Austria ) in the late bronze-age and is part of Halstatt culture ( it is not part of La Tene culture ).
Later celtic invasions into the western Balkans, occurred in the iron-age
 
Salento is right. I do not know in which calculator I also got Macedonian. The Illyrians can proceed from the Dorians. Maybe these tools are not super precise but they are quite good and they begin to coincide in many cases. Anyway, if we are now super mixed and these European ancient ethnic groups were also.

I think Albano Rissi could take Ilirio if the genetic test was done. I feel a familiar flow with him, maybe it's about that.

The ancient ethnic groups could be in many places moving through the historic happenings. Equally unlikely is the monopolization of ancient ethnic groups for political or nationalist issues today.
 
Salento is right. I do not know in which calculator I also got Macedonian. The Illyrians can proceed from the Dorians. Maybe these tools are not super precise but they are quite good and they begin to coincide in many cases. Anyway, if we are now super mixed and these European ancient ethnic groups were also.

I think Albano Rissi could take Ilirio if the genetic test was done. I feel a familiar flow with him, maybe it's about that.

The ancient ethnic groups could be in many places moving through the historic happenings. Equally unlikely is the monopolization of ancient ethnic groups for political or nationalist issues today.

Hello Carlos.
I'm not the type that likes to get into polemics, but I'll solidarize with you in your comment. No modern nationality, whether from anywhere place in the world, can self-proclaim itself the only descendant or the only one who is ethnically related to a particular ancestral people. Human Displacements and even the replacement of an entire ancestral population by another had been very common for millennia, and in this sense no one is authorized to say that his people are the only direct descendant of a particular individual or a group of individuals just because their skeletons and skulls were found in your backyard.
Big hug my dear friend :)
 
It seems to affect Abruzzo, Tuscans, also. So i want to hear this, since you keep alluding to it, it's obvious you have a theory
Ghegian Y-lineages are completely Western Balkan. That's what these people can't get through their thick sculls.
 
Thanks for this

To me, it seems that a great majority are amateurs. I can’t see trained geneticists really focusing on the genealogy aspect of the field . What’s his background? I’m just curious, because it appears his training is more or less related to law and philosophy of you check out his CV
 
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