MyTrueAncestry Mytrueancestry.com

[torzio]

my ancient plot below

 

[g p]

This is mineView attachment 11216

 

[Jovialis]

10 vs 10
Positions will change for modern samples according to the samples used.
In regards to the ancient samples, it seems pretty consistent.
Though I should mention, in the PCA from the study, the most southern samples still encompassed southern Italians.

Also Mycenean samples plot with Sicilians on the Lazaridis PCA.

At any rate, ancient samples are a far better approximation, than modern ones.

 

[Besa]

PCA MAP I posted doesn't show .... weird ... here again

 

[Jovialis]

10 vs 10
Positions will change for modern samples according to the samples used.
In regards to the ancient samples, it seems pretty consistent.
Though I should mention, in the PCA from the study, the most southern samples still encompassed southern Italians.

Also Mycenean samples plot with Sicilians on the Lazaridis PCA.

At any rate, ancient samples are a far better approximation, than modern ones.

I wonder if the ancient DNA will show that the Greeks of Magna Graecia were similar to these Cretan-like Imperial Roman samples. While the populations that settled there during the Roman-era, and Middle Ages were similar to the central Italian-like, and/or Tuscan-like, and/or North Italian-like populations, who intermixed with them to create the north-south genetic-cline.

 

[RagnarofMacedon]

Mine

 

[brittney.smith]

The "Roman" samples from 670 AD have to be the ones from the Langobard cemetery in Piemonte, who were very modern "southern" Italian like. The 570 AD samples are the non-Langobard samples from their settlement in modern day Hungary?

 

[brick]

The "Roman" samples from 670 AD have to be the ones from the Langobard cemetery in Piemonte, who were very modern "southern" Italian like. The 570 AD samples are the non-Langobard samples from their settlement in modern day Hungary?

Nope, not all of them were very modern "southern" Italian like. Some of them were also Iberian like, Northern Italian like and Central Italian like.

 

[Jovialis]

Nope, not all of them were very modern "southern" Italian like. Some of them were also Iberian like, Northern Italian like and Central Italian like.

The "southern" samples are even further south of the average south Italian; overlapping with Cretans. (Nevertheless, some south Italians are this south too.) Which is why I commented up-thread with my speculation that the Greeks of Magna Graecia where probably more cretan-like. That perhaps they were shifted "North" by those more "northernly" Italian sample during the Iron age, and middle ages, to where southern Italians are today. Though my guess is also that the most northern Italian like samples also had some extra "Northern" admixture from Gallic sources. All in all, the genetic cline existed in those days as well.

 

[Salento]

Custom Default - Ancient and Modern - All at Once - Back to the Future

 

[Angela]

The "Roman" samples from 670 AD have to be the ones from the Langobard cemetery in Piemonte, who were very modern "southern" Italian like. The 570 AD samples are the non-Langobard samples from their settlement in modern day Hungary?

That's not quite accurate, Brittney. My closest match among the Collegno samples is CL36, and is also my second highest match overall. On the Eurogenes gedmatch he comes out as "North Italian" if I remember correctly. On others he's a distant fit to Tuscans. He's actually Emilia like, and more than half my ancestry is Emilian, so it definitely fits.

Another of my closest matches is CL23 which they label Medieval Iberian, for some reason, but on their own PCA it lands on the Bergamo Northern Italian sample. So, northern Italian like, anyway. I get Gallo Roman as well.

They make a lot of errors like this. The CL23 sample may be somewhat like Medieval Iberians, but it's from Italy, and almost identical to northern Italians, so why is it labeled Iberian?

It's true I get a lot of matches to medieval Iberians, but at least the samples are from Iberia, so that's ok.

Also, I think there was always substructure even in the north, so I'll be interested to see samples from contemporaneous burials from other areas of Italy. They may mirror these results, or they may not.

By the way, Italians from further north than Emilia get matches to other Collegno samples.

It was a very detailed paper, but a lot of generalizations about the results are floating around which aren't supported by those details.

 

[brick]

PCA samples from Lombard period cemetery at Collegno (6th-7th century A.D.), Italy

PCA samples from Lombard period cemetery at Szólád (6th century A.D.), Hungary

PCA with Collegno and Szólád samples

 

[torzio]

PCA samples from Lombard period cemetery at Collegno (6th-7th century A.D.), Italy

PCA samples from Lombard period cemetery at Szólád (6th century A.D.), Hungary

PCA with Collegno and Szólád samples

Thankyou
I agree with these PCA plots
Below is mine from other "plotters"
Only the ones uner 10.00
SZ28......Trentino.....fonzaso
CL23......Lombardy east.....near lake Garda
I3313......Friuli Grado
SZ36.......Romagna Rimini
CL36.......Emilia....sussolo
Second name is closest town

 

[Jovialis]

PCA samples from Lombard period cemetery at Collegno (6th-7th century A.D.), Italy

PCA samples from Lombard period cemetery at Szólád (6th century A.D.), Hungary

PCA with Collegno and Szólád samples

Interesting, for MyTrueAncestry, SZ40 is closest to me. Though, it doesn't have CL31 in my list of samples, which is very close to Puglia. Nevertheless, SZ40 is still relatively close. Which is consistent with this PCA. It was also my closest in the PCA for my Eurogenes K15 results.

 

[Jovialis]

Interesting, for MyTrueAncestry, SZ40 is closest to me. Though, it doesn't have CL31 in my list of samples, which is very close to Puglia. Nevertheless, SZ40 is still relatively close. Which is consistent with this PCA. It was also my closest in the PCA for my Eurogenes K15 results.

I reviewed the sample CL31 in the paper, and there was a note that it was subject to high contamination. Which is probably why it wasn't included in MTA, I'm guessing. Also, it was that weird outlier, so it makes sense that it was highly contaminated.

 

[Duarte]

My two first matches:

1. Roman Soldier Germany (300 AD) (6.899) - FN_2 (Click for more info)
2. Iberian / Piedmont (670 AD) (8.629) - CL94 (Click for more info)

MTA custom PCA:

Brick's PCA:

IMO, the data are quite consistent

 

[Salento]

Interesting, for MyTrueAncestry, SZ40 is closest to me. Though, it doesn't have CL31 in my list of samples, which is very close to Puglia. Nevertheless, SZ40 is still relatively close. Which is consistent with this PCA. It was also my closest in the PCA for my Eurogenes K15 results.

In Roca Vecchia (Puglia) they found 17 burials from around the 4th ~ 8th Century AD, located behind the more ancient Messapic walls.

Some of these burials have been discovered ”Untouched” by archeologists.

Hope they test it ...

 

[matty74]

Your closest Ancient populations...

Viking Icelandic + Longobard (2.181)
Celt + Longobard (2.314)
Longobard (5.104)
Celt (5.472)
Viking Icelandic (6.764)

 

[matty74]

Here are my plots according to Lukasz's site:

 

[Jovialis]

PCA samples from Lombard period cemetery at Collegno (6th-7th century A.D.), Italy

PCA samples from Lombard period cemetery at Szólád (6th century A.D.), Hungary

PCA with Collegno and Szólád samples

I wonder though, why do the modern South Italians plots fall north of CL30, CL38, and CL25 in these PCAs; while on the one from the study, they're on top of the most southern ones?

I'd say MTA and the PCA you posted are consistent with the positions of the ancient samples though. I think my position in relation to the SZ40 is correct, as it is to Apulia on your PCA.