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New Englander said:
Distance to:New_Englander
5.01274117Italy_Lazio
6.29007695Italy_Apulia
6.43431566Italy_Marche
6.74598399Turk_Macedonia
6.83311786Italy_Abruzzo
7.19560282Albanian_Kosovo
7.38191710Turk_Greece
7.98581868Italy_Romagna
8.70839825Albanian_North
9.44677194Greek
9.58383144Italy_Sicily
9.62663732Italy_Campania
10.47123679Gagauz
10.61246908Crimean_Tatar_Coast
10.72707369Italy_Tuscany
11.32060069Turk_Bulgaria
11.69888884Turk_Romania
12.09184316Italy_Emilia
12.41500075Italy_Calabria
12.77545608Italy_Liguria
13.64064148Macedonian
13.81893628Crimean_Tatar_Mountain
14.00013414Italy_FriuliVG
14.01866818Italy_Veneto
14.07539342Pomak

Target: New_Englander
Distance: 0.1297% / 0.12970623
7.8Italy_Romagna
6.6Albanian_North
6.2Swiss_Italian
6.0Assyrian
4.2Hemshin
4.0Italy_Lazio
4.0Romanians
4.0Samaritians
3.8Greek
3.6Greek_Crete
3.2Lithuanian
3.0Cypriots
3.0Mixed_Germanic
2.8France_Corsica
2.6Polish
2.4German
2.4Iraq_Jews
2.2Portuguese
2.2Sardinian
2.0Greek_Pontus
2.0Spanish
1.8Saudis
1.4Italy_Liguria
1.2Dutch
1.0Baleares
1.0Bosnian
1.0French_Basque
1.0Georgian_Imereti
1.0Italy_FriuliVG
1.0Piramalai_Kallars
0.8Armenian_West
0.8French
0.8Italy_Aosta_Valley
0.8Italy_Campania
0.8Laz
0.8Sephardic_Jews
0.6Abhkasians
0.6British_Isles
0.6Italy_Abruzzo
0.6Lithuanians
0.6Morocco_Jews
0.6Pais_Vasco
0.4Bedouin
0.4Bnei_Menashe_Jews
0.4Cataluna
0.4Italy_Piedmont
0.4Orcadian
0.4Yemen_Jews
0.2Druze
0.2Iranians
0.2Italy_Lombardy
0.2Pulliyar
Click to expand...

@New Englander, do you have some Turkish blood?
 
bigsnake49 said:
Jovialis, he's just on top of Central Greeks.
Click to expand...

TNWUUTr.png


According to Eurogenes K15, yes. I am actually almost exactly on top of the "Puglia" sample too. But wonder if someone just took my results, and renamed it as such, without my consent.

FWIW, idk how accurate these MSPaint PCAs can be, considering the more sophisticated software (Past4Project) adjusts each plot relative with every new addition. Check it out with this one: https://vahaduo.github.io/custompca/
 
Jovialis said:
y2vhhBc.png
Click to expand...

Again, makes perfect sense for me: between the more southwestern samples from Bergamo and the most northwestern samples from Toscana, the ones on the same parallel as Florentines. I obviously took more from my mother than my father. I'm not surprised, although the personality traits mostly come from him; all the bad ones anyway. :)

Amazing the spread between northern and southern Toscana.
 
@Jovialis, remind me please how to generate the PCA data?
 
Salento said:
​Thanks Jovialis

ZfNsgUg.gif


NbxR3Tn.gif
Click to expand...

Salento, your distance from all the different Italian groups illustrate perfectly the genetic cline of Italy from North South. I wonder though, why are you more distant to Calabrians than Sicilians?
 
bigsnake49 said:
Salento, your distance from all the different Italian groups illustrate perfectly the genetic cline of Italy from North South. I wonder though, why are you more distant to Calabrians than Sicilians?
Click to expand...

You can ask an other Pugliese the same question (same issue) :)

imho the Calabria sample doesn’t represent the average Calabrese, and to a degree the same goes for the Campania sample too.

vTlfPHo.jpg
 
I forgot to post the admixture one using all the samples: I find it very interesting.

Target: Angela
Distance: 0.7609% / 0.76086678
24.0North_Italian_HGDP01151
17.4Tuscan_HGDP01163
14.6North_Italian_HGDP01147
13.8Sardinian_HGDP01071
10.4Sicilian
10.2Tuscan_HGDP01167
7.2C_Italian
1.8Tuscan_HGDP01162
0.6North_Italian_HGDP01172


The northern Italian samples are "very" Northern Italian, one near the Veneto at the extreme northeast of the HGLP sample and one at the top north end. Could the people of my father's mountains be even more "northern" than Emilians in general? There's also the fact that one of my "famous" or infamous ancestors on my paternal grandmother's side was supposedly a "privateer" from Rimini who had to flee to the mountains on the other side of Italy.

Then, my Tuscan samples are also the most northern ones, but I get a chunk of Sardinian/Sicilian, about 14% Sardinian, which is a lot. I have documented family trees going all the way back to the 1600s and there's no sign of it, although there are some gaps in my maternal grandfather's La Spezia province lines.

So, I suppose some of that influence came via that latter route? My maternal grandfather's surname is most frequent in Lombardia and Piemonte, but then Roma shows up as well.

However, there's also the fact that some of my mother's people come from extremely isolated villages in the foothills of the Appennini. Is it possible some of that more EEF ancestry pooled there? I don't know, but I get an awful lot of EEF, and Italian Neolithic shows up, as does Greek Neolithic(although at lower levels than Bronze Age samples), which don't for most Italian results I've seen here. Or, is it because one of my ancestral villages was built on a Byzantine castrum? The "Sardinian" and "Sicilian" just mean a pull further south and west than perhaps the samples from Toscana than were used. The Corsica connection may show that too. Interestingly, the Sardinian samples which comes up in my mix is from the internal hinterland, the most "ancient" and pre-Indo-European arrival area of Sardinia. The Sicilian may be a reverse connection. Lots of "Ligurian" in Sicily via ancient migrations and the "Lombards" of the Medieval period as well. I do get connections to the areas where those people settled.

Impossible to know, probably, but I'm getting a lot more clarity than I ever thought I'd get.

Thanks, Jovialis.

None of this would have been possible with the other calculators out there.
 
bigsnake49 said:
Salento, your distance from all the different Italian groups illustrate perfectly the genetic cline of Italy from North South. I wonder though, why are you more distant to Calabrians than Sicilians?
Click to expand...

Do you know that Salento and I have the same ydna marker as well as the same branch of that marker
yet he is southern italian adriatic sea area and I am northern italian adriatic sea area ..............so what does genetics say about that!
 
mine below

how do you guys get the script added ?

 
torzio said:
Do you know that Salento and I have the same ydna marker as well as the same branch of that marker
yet he is southern italian adriatic sea area and I am northern italian adriatic sea area ..............so what does genetics say about that!
Click to expand...

Torzio: Thanks for reminding us of that, I have seen you and Salento discuss your Y-DNA T1a2 and how similar it is, but from different adriatic sea areas of Italy, South and North..

With respect to my own DNA, in post 814, I also cluster closer to Campania and Abruzzo then Italy_Sicily, all between 3.5 and 4.03 but the Sicilian sample is a 6, Calabria for me at 5.8 and Apulia at 6.3. All of those are good distances but I too cluster closer to Campania and Abruzzo than I do to Calabria and Sicilian coordinates. Maybe you can help me, are the Italy_Sicily samples and the Sicilian Sample from different Provinces in Sicily? I have never been able to get a good answer.

Thanks, hope all is well in Australia.
 
torzio said:
mine below

how do you guys get the script added ?

Click to expand...

I edited the image by matching the symbols displayed with the names. You have to do it manually.

i posted the same Image a while ago.
 
Distance to: italouruguayan


14.98834467 Italy_FriuliVG
16.26396191 Italy_Piedmont
16.29486402 Italy_Veneto
16.51679751 North_Italian_HGDP01154
17.24333414 Italy_Liguria
17.38998102 Italy_Trentino
17.47379756 Italy_Emilia
17.84838844 Italy_Tuscany
17.86634546 Italy_Romagna
17.91237282 O_Italian
18.02068184 Italy_Lazio
18.08284443 Swiss_Italian
18.14572395 Italy_Lombardy
18.45127133 Italy_Aosta_Valley
18.51935204 Tuscan_HGDP01164
18.64229868 Tuscan_HGDP01167
18.79267144 North_Italian_HGDP01151
19.01582441 Italy_Marche
19.30829355 Tuscan_HGDP01163
19.52225909 North_Italian_HGDP01152
19.52389562 N_Italian
19.58806524 North_Italian_HGDP01173
19.89302642 North_Italian_HGDP01172
20.02880176 North_Italian_HGDP01147
20.62805371 North_Italian_HGDP01157



Distance to: italouruguayan


16.51679751 North_Italian_HGDP01154
18.51935204 Tuscan_HGDP01164
18.64229868 Tuscan_HGDP01167
18.79267144 North_Italian_HGDP01151
19.30829355 Tuscan_HGDP01163
19.52225909 North_Italian_HGDP01152
19.58806524 North_Italian_HGDP01173
19.89302642 North_Italian_HGDP01172
20.02880176 North_Italian_HGDP01147
20.62805371 North_Italian_HGDP01157
21.27751395 Tuscan_HGDP01162
21.44494812 North_Italian_HGDP01174
21.98699388 North_Italian_HGDP01171
22.38117736 North_Italian_HGDP01155
22.80121488 Tuscan_HGDP01166
22.83674889 North_Italian_HGDP01153
23.20532697 Tuscan_HGDP01168
23.32967424 North_Italian_HGDP01177
23.37568609 Tuscan_HGDP01169
23.37860133 Tuscan_HGDP01161
24.20236559 North_Italian_HGDP01156
39.36897890 Sardinian_HGDP01078
40.70537925 Sardinian_HGDP01073
41.40789538 Sardinian_HGDP01075
41.83979087 Sardinian_HGDP01066
 
italouruguayan said:
Distance to: italouruguayan


14.98834467 Italy_FriuliVG
16.26396191 Italy_Piedmont
16.29486402 Italy_Veneto
16.51679751 North_Italian_HGDP01154
17.24333414 Italy_Liguria
17.38998102 Italy_Trentino
17.47379756 Italy_Emilia
17.84838844 Italy_Tuscany
17.86634546 Italy_Romagna
17.91237282 O_Italian
18.02068184 Italy_Lazio
18.08284443 Swiss_Italian
18.14572395 Italy_Lombardy
18.45127133 Italy_Aosta_Valley
18.51935204 Tuscan_HGDP01164
18.64229868 Tuscan_HGDP01167
18.79267144 North_Italian_HGDP01151
19.01582441 Italy_Marche
19.30829355 Tuscan_HGDP01163
19.52225909 North_Italian_HGDP01152
19.52389562 N_Italian
19.58806524 North_Italian_HGDP01173
19.89302642 North_Italian_HGDP01172
20.02880176 North_Italian_HGDP01147
20.62805371 North_Italian_HGDP01157



Distance to: italouruguayan


16.51679751 North_Italian_HGDP01154
18.51935204 Tuscan_HGDP01164
18.64229868 Tuscan_HGDP01167
18.79267144 North_Italian_HGDP01151
19.30829355 Tuscan_HGDP01163
19.52225909 North_Italian_HGDP01152
19.58806524 North_Italian_HGDP01173
19.89302642 North_Italian_HGDP01172
20.02880176 North_Italian_HGDP01147
20.62805371 North_Italian_HGDP01157
21.27751395 Tuscan_HGDP01162
21.44494812 North_Italian_HGDP01174
21.98699388 North_Italian_HGDP01171
22.38117736 North_Italian_HGDP01155
22.80121488 Tuscan_HGDP01166
22.83674889 North_Italian_HGDP01153
23.20532697 Tuscan_HGDP01168
23.32967424 North_Italian_HGDP01177
23.37568609 Tuscan_HGDP01169
23.37860133 Tuscan_HGDP01161
24.20236559 North_Italian_HGDP01156
39.36897890 Sardinian_HGDP01078
40.70537925 Sardinian_HGDP01073
41.40789538 Sardinian_HGDP01075
41.83979087 Sardinian_HGDP01066
Click to expand...

It fits, yes? Your Italian ancestry is from the north?
 
torzio said:
Do you know that Salento and I have the same ydna marker as well as the same branch of that marker
yet he is southern italian adriatic sea area and I am northern italian adriatic sea area ..............so what does genetics say about that!
Click to expand...

Haplos don't matter. I am R1B M-269. That mean that it had not changed in what 10-20,000 years? So what is the TRMCA of your haplo? So you had a common ancestor. It's what happened to the descendants since the common ancestor. All the genetic input.
 
bigsnake49 said:
Haplos don't matter. I am R1B M-269. That mean that it had not changed in what 10-20,000 years? So what is the TRMCA of your haplo? So you had a common ancestor. It's what happened to the descendants since the common ancestor. All the genetic input.
Click to expand...

... much less than 10-20,000 years, ... our current Final marker is about 2998 ybp -

it depends of how much down the line you tested.

People keep arguing all the time about Haplogroups, (especially the Balkans) and now you’re saying that Haplogroups aren't important, ... lol

It's possible I could share a common direct male ancestor with Torzio in the last 200 - 300 - 500 - 1000 or more years ago

or maybe my Great-grandfather had a Brother from another Mother :)
 
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