Health New Coronavirus in China

[bigsnake49]

... the Governor of Puglia, the heel of Italy’s boot ... don't come back ...

“Get off at the first train station, do not catch planes, turn your cars around, get off your buses. Do not bring the Lombard, Veneto and Emilia epidemic to Puglia.”

... To underscore his determination, he signed a decree saying anyone arriving from the vast northern red zone would have to put themselves in quarantine for two weeks ...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...res-in-virus-hit-north-idUSKBN20V0IJ?rpc=401&

Haha, I like him. Don't bring the Northern plague to Puglia!

 

[bicicleur 2]

I totally disagree.
Wanting to argue at all costs it would seem that the first European patient ever was in Germany ...
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.10...rVGzC63aAY1bz3xrQUCxhCCIfs3dGr2XbbWqLuyT9EGSI
But this is not the point, Germany will justify this fact as it sees fit. Let's go back to Codogno.
The Codogno hospital followed the protocols issued by Rome (which are the official ones), the second of which modified what was prescribed in the previous one, so that the first infected patient was no longer included in the cases of subjects to be kept under observation.
https://www.ilgiornale.it/news/poli...38ov0vV3s_eBS_v51Qcm6x4mB-hxqzioEvI8XbAQjaNIU
https://www.corriere.it/cronache/20...ne-d187209e-58bc-11ea-8e3a-a0c8564bd6c7.shtml
Indeed, it was precisely an excess of scruple of Dr. Malara - who was operating in Codogno in those days - to find out that the patient was suffering from Covid-19. There is only to kiss the elbows that this accident was discovered in Lombardy.
Elsewhere - for economic interests or for reasons of reputation - they would have pretended nothing
https://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2...le_idea_di_pensare_al_coronavirus_-250380291/

have it your way

fact is that in Europe the virus spread most rapidly in Italy and that most infections in Belgium come from people coming back from holiday in Italy

I don't blame anyone, but al of a sudden you and Angela become very defensive
and I don't see why you start pointing to Germany

well, maybe I start noticing a pattern here : whatever goes wrong in Italy, blame the Germans

 

[bicicleur 2]

Haha, I like him. Don't bring the Northern plague to Puglia!

with the emphasis on Northern?

 

[Carlos]

The same thing has happened in Spain with the traffic of people with northern Italy and the spread of the virus and nobody has to be offended by that.


The Spanish flu did not start in Spain either and nevertheless they called it that and neither offend us nor feel alluded to.

 

[Yetos]

The first hit in Greece came from a trip to Milan.
the third from a trip or student from England,
But majority got Coronavirus from Siinai mountain toour.

 

[bicicleur 2]

Good for him, but it's probably too late: an American serviceman in Napoli has tested positive.

As to the Pakistani man being patient zero, here are the latest facts as determined by the AP:
News articles including Free West Media falsely cited Adnkronos, an Italian media agency, in making the claim. On Feb. 29, Adnkronos released a story that a Pakistani man, who delivers Chinese food, did not quarantine himself in Italy after having a positive coronavirus test.

The article makes no reference to the man being patient zero.
So, he wasn't patient zero, but he still did what the story claimed he did, and he still should go to jail. Once you've been quarantined, you freaking stay in quarantine.

@Bicicleur,
I knew it would be you.

Here is the sequence of events, not that it will matter to you.

First of all, learn the difference between first reported case and "patient zero".

Second of all, read the following. At the time the decisions were made any doctors anywhere in the world would have done the exact same thing, because those were the protocols. It happened in the U.S. over and over again, but you don't see this kind of vitriol here.

I'm sure the facts won't matter to you, just as they don't matter to you whenever migrants from the Near East or North Africa are involved. It's never about the facts of any specific case; it's always a knee jerk reaction based on your own prejudices.

I should have done it long ago. I'm done with you.

"The Lombardy outbreak came to light when a 38-year-old Italian tested positive in Codogno, a comune in the province of Lodi. According to his wife, he had met an Italian friend who had returned from China on 21 January, who subsequently tested negative.^[18] On 14 February, he felt unwell and went to a doctor in Castiglione d'Adda. He was prescribed treatments for influenza.^[18]On 16 February, as the 38-year-old man's condition worsened, he went to Codogno Hospital, reporting respiratory problems.^[18] Initially, there was no suspicion of COVID-19, so no additional precautionary measures were taken, and the virus was able to infect other patients and health workers.^[19] Later, the patient, his pregnant wife, and a friend tested positive.^[18] Three more cases were confirmed on the same day, after the patients reported symptoms of pneumonia.^[20] Thereafter, extensive screenings and checks were performed on everyone that had possibly been in contact or near the infected subjects.^[21]"

you're right

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/03/coronavirus-covid-19-patient-zero/

While some countries have seen a gradual rise in confirmed cases, others, like Italy, have endured unnerving spikes weeks after their initial confirmation. Italy’s first identified case was a 38-year-old man from a town southeast of Milan who hadn’t traveled to China. Scientists originally believed Italy’s patient zero was a colleague of his who had just returned from a business trip to China, but this person tested negative – and no other obvious candidates were identified.

but tell me, why did prime minister Conte criticisize the Codogno hospital
and how did become at the forefront of Corona infections outside of China?

your story about patient zero in Italy doesn't hold up either :

https://apnews.com/afs:Content:8622170027

No evidence that food delivery man was coronavirus patient zero in Italy

I don't know the sequence, but neither do you

it may be just bad luck, I don't know

and if you think Puglia should close it's borders, why shouldn't Europe close it's borders to Italy?

 

[bigsnake49]

with the emphasis on Northern?

I think the problem is that the Southern Italians that migrated to Northern Italy would be young and the ones left behind would be the old folks which in this case would be the most vulnerable.

 

[Maciamo]

Emotions are running high. Let's all take a deep breath and calm down. It's useless to point the finger at entire countries or regions.

... the Governor of Puglia, the heel of Italy’s boot ... don't come back ...

“Get off at the first train station, do not catch planes, turn your cars around, get off your buses. Do not bring the Lombard, Veneto and Emilia epidemic to Puglia.”

... To underscore his determination, he signed a decree saying anyone arriving from the vast northern red zone would have to put themselves in quarantine for two weeks ...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...res-in-virus-hit-north-idUSKBN20V0IJ?rpc=401&

There have already been confirmed cases in Puglia: Wikipedia - 2020 coronavirus outbreak in Italy

 

[Yetos]

and what about the countries that hide their data or do not cooperate?

 

[Salento]

Emotions are running high. Let's all take a deep breath and calm down. It's useless to point the finger at entire countries or regions.



There have already been confirmed cases in Puglia: Wikipedia - 2020 coronavirus outbreak in Italy

The message I shared from the Governor of Puglia was misinterpreted by some, (many Apulians are blunt)

He wasn’t blaming anybody.

What he was really saying was that if you had been in the red zone area, you might be a carrier and if you care about your family and neighbors, don’t come, or go back if on your way, so you don’t make them sick and increase the spread.

 

[Stuvanè]

Dear all,


surely I'm a sensitive type, but trusting is good, not trusting is better, especially now that I'm confined to the red zone.

If anyone writes that the Codogno hospital is responsible for the spread of Covid-19, the idea that Italy was the bearer of the disease, if not the only one responsible for this mess, is simply implied. And that's what the media in the world have let through, including the ineffable CNN, which in its map of a few days ago felt compelled to make China disappear.


I don't think it was a random choice.

I brought up Germany because the study in question comes from a German university that talks about an infected in their country, and is earlier than that of Codogno. Although the most important focus of contagion has certainly developed here (many people pass through the Po Valley for work and / or tourism and certainly this has not helped to contain the phenomenon), it is not said that the first prize it's up to us.
The search for "patient 0" leaves the time it finds with such a contagious disease, it's a fig leaf, especially when we talk about areas connected commercially and economically to each other such as China / Far East and Europe.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/COVID-19-outbreak-timeline.gif


Do I really have to believe that only the peasants and workers of Codogno in Lombardy or those of Vo 'in Veneto had contacts with China and suddenly became the main attraction of all the other states and tourists of the world infected? In continental Europe do they all live and work under a glass bell and meet their Chinese colleagues only via Skype? Or rather, in some parts of the world do authorities count contagions in another way - and sometimes they stop looking for cases of the sick - so as not to ruin economic records or disturb the financial markets?
Thinking badly is a sin but you always guess it: let's say that at this moment it is much easier to step on Italy's feet and reprimand it than to call into question the main mess that originated in China, where the authorities in the early times of the epidemic were not exemplary states for clarity.

After which I am the first to argue that our current Italian rulers in Rome are a historical and civil disgrace for incompetence and looseness, always prone to requests coming from party secretaries and bureaucrats or from some foreign interlocutors who are a little too interested in our business, but much less ready for the needs of their governed. As when, precisely the regions of northern Italy in previous weeks had requested to monitor with greater rigor the entrances of all those - Chinese, Italian or any other nationality - who came from areas affected by the virus and possibly impose quarantine, but there was denied because it would have been considered a racist and fascist measure (!). In order not to make a temporary "rudeness" to a few individuals, a colossal quarantine is now imposed on almost all of northern Italy, after delays and hesitations of all kinds and the whole of Italy itself is now isolated from other countries. In my home all this is called stupidity and perhaps even betrayal.


Being judged infector after trying to activate all possible health procedures at the local level, indeed even finding obstacles from the central government is not a great satisfaction. But we will make it right and there will be a lesson. After all this hangover of mock brotherhood and universal solidarity, it is good to take up a bit of concreteness and mutual mistrust every now and then.


As for the governor of Puglia, I believe he has done very well to admonish and take legal measures against all those fools who, upon the news of the closure of the northern regions, poured into the South at their places of origin, risking to propagate throughout the Peninsula the virus. I would advise him, however, to measure the words better, since he wanted to label Covid-19 as "northern" (Lombardo, Veneto, Emiliano ...). I hope it was just a Freudian lapsus and not a deliberate flurry of misplaced political controversy. He must remember that if the public health of the north collapses (and we are very close) the Apulians and many others who often have to go back here for specific medical treatments will also stop benefiting from it.

 

[Jovialis]

Dear all,


surely I'm a sensitive type, but trusting is good, not trusting is better, especially now that I'm confined to the red zone.

If anyone writes that the Codogno hospital is responsible for the spread of Covid-19, the idea that Italy was the bearer of the disease, if not the only one responsible for this mess, is simply implied. And that's what the media in the world have let through, including the ineffable CNN, which in its map of a few days ago felt compelled to make China disappear.


I don't think it was a random choice.

I brought up Germany because the study in question comes from a German university that talks about an infected in their country, and is earlier than that of Codogno. Although the most important focus of contagion has certainly developed here (many people pass through the Po Valley for work and / or tourism and certainly this has not helped to contain the phenomenon), it is not said that the first prize it's up to us.
The search for "patient 0" leaves the time it finds with such a contagious disease, it's a fig leaf, especially when we talk about areas connected commercially and economically to each other such as China / Far East and Europe.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/COVID-19-outbreak-timeline.gif


Do I really have to believe that only the peasants and workers of Codogno in Lombardy or those of Vo 'in Veneto had contacts with China and suddenly became the main attraction of all the other states and tourists of the world infected? In continental Europe do they all live and work under a glass bell and meet their Chinese colleagues only via Skype? Or rather, in some parts of the world do authorities count contagions in another way - and sometimes they stop looking for cases of the sick - so as not to ruin economic records or disturb the financial markets?
Thinking badly is a sin but you always guess it: let's say that at this moment it is much easier to step on Italy's feet and reprimand it than to call into question the main mess that originated in China, where the authorities in the early times of the epidemic were not exemplary states for clarity.

After which I am the first to argue that our current Italian rulers in Rome are a historical and civil disgrace for incompetence and looseness, always prone to requests coming from party secretaries and bureaucrats or from some foreign interlocutors who are a little too interested in our business, but much less ready for the needs of their governed. As when, precisely the regions of northern Italy in previous weeks had requested to monitor with greater rigor the entrances of all those - Chinese, Italian or any other nationality - who came from areas affected by the virus and possibly impose quarantine, but there was denied because it would have been considered a racist and fascist measure (!). In order not to make a temporary "rudeness" to a few individuals, a colossal quarantine is now imposed on almost all of northern Italy, after delays and hesitations of all kinds and the whole of Italy itself is now isolated from other countries. In my home all this is called stupidity and perhaps even betrayal.


Being judged infector after trying to activate all possible health procedures at the local level, indeed even finding obstacles from the central government is not a great satisfaction. But we will make it right and there will be a lesson. After all this hangover of mock brotherhood and universal solidarity, it is good to take up a bit of concreteness and mutual mistrust every now and then.


As for the governor of Puglia, I believe he has done very well to admonish and take legal measures against all those fools who, upon the news of the closure of the northern regions, poured into the South at their places of origin, risking to propagate throughout the Peninsula the virus. I would advise him, however, to measure the words better, since he wanted to label Covid-19 as "northern" (Lombardo, Veneto, Emiliano ...). I hope it was just a Freudian lapsus and not a deliberate flurry of misplaced political controversy. He must remember that if the public health of the north collapses (and we are very close) the Apulians and many others who often have to go back here for specific medical treatments will also stop benefiting from it.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Chinese government is influencing media outlets like CNN:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...forts-to-influence-media-abroad-idUSKBN1ZE0DT

 

[Salento]

In bocca al lupo Stuvanè, hopefully, in a couple of weeks or so everything will go back to normal again.

 

[Yetos]

I think you are driven the wrong way,
we are speaking about a world pandemia,
and we arrgue if the first was in Germany
or if Italy's patient 0 was mistake
etc etc,

In my country half of the effected came from a Sinai mountain tour.
lets face and focus other more serious.

for example,
look at the bellow

"Prior to flight restrictions, on average, 3500 people every day took direct flights from Wuhan (where #coronavirus initially erupted) to cities in other countries ... each bubble represents passenger travel from October-November 2019 period "

Now take a look at this.

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

How come countries that accepted thousands of people from Wuhan China
still have 0 patient, and others that accepted none have hundrends?

that means that either EU pandemia control system is wrong, and some other countries have better.
or that some countries hide the patients and death,and do not cooperate with WHO.
I think is more dangerous to play hide and seak with a pandemia report at some countries.
than to find which one spread the virus,

 

[torzio]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Chinese government is influencing media outlets like CNN:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...forts-to-influence-media-abroad-idUSKBN1ZE0DT

thats what I heard as well ...............they influence CNN to also target Trump in stopping this trade impasse with China

 

[Salento]

... out of curiosity

insitome ... immunity

Covid-19 vs Neanderthal / Modern Human ???

my immune system version/combination:

Interpreting Immune Signals - Modern Human

Pathogen Recognition - Neanderthal

Viral Immune Response - Neanderthal

 

[bicicleur 2]

maybe there are countries that aren't even aware that they have cases of corona infection

from a pure selfish point of view : why should you have yourself tested?
there is no medicin to help you, and they'll put you in quarantaine

 

[bicicleur 2]

In bocca al lupo Stuvanè, hopefully, in a couple of weeks or so everything will go back to normal again.

I hope so.
It is difficult to judge what actions to take and what not.
One has to be carefull, but sometimes the consequences of the precautions taken may be more harmfull than the disease itself.
There is simply not enough information.

Common sense is to test those who have symptoms and put them in quarantaine.
In China, they have put their whole economy to a standstill for a couple of weeks.
It seems to have stopped further spreading.

 

[Yetos]

For the story

WEBASTO
could this be the company that spread coronavirus to Europe?

[video]https://www.newsauto.gr/news/na-apo-pou-xekinise-o-koronoios-stin-evropi/[/video]

at 23JAN2020 at Munchen Deutchland,
then an employ of Webasto who met the 'affected' lady
breaks the quarantine and travels to Italy outside Milan Preferacture,

 

[Jovialis]

200% surge in Coronavirus infections in the NY Tri-state area. The head of the Port Authority in NY/NJ tests positive for the virus...

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/brooklyn-sees-1st-coronavirus-cases-as-tri-state-total-surges-136-in-3-days-some-schools-close/2317966/