New map of Caucasian autosomal admixtures in Europe and the Middle East

Well, maybe, I'm the exception that proves the rule!
All my ancestors came from eastern Britany and Maine (Mayenne+Sarthe) in France.
In K12b I have 13.04% Caucasus (France 8.4%).
In K12a I have 11.46% East European (France 3.9%), a portion of which is transfered, at K12B, in North Europe and Caucasus ..


I wonder if U4 mdtna is not related to the Caucasian admixture?
Myself, i am U4, and there is a high percentage U4 in Maine (11% in the Sarthe by Richard 2007).
It is possible that there are isolates Caucasians admixtures in Western Europe, as studies, very fragmented, have not yet demonstrated!

can you do me a favour and run the new Eurogenes K13 in gedmatch, as your K12a and K12b are very similar to my data numbers.

these are my K13 below
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 29.98
2 West_Med 23.08
3 East_Med 17.3
4 Baltic 16.99
5 West_Asian 8.11
6 Red_Sea 2.29
7 South_Asian 1.16
8 East_Asian 0.56
9 Sub-Saharan 0.31
10 Oceanian 0.22


you are from brittany......strabo states brittany is veneti area...same people as adriatic veneti :LOL:
 
the old populations having lived for a long time in big towns are very well mixed it is evident, but a local rural level, the big countries and even the regions are far to be "level" , they show differences in percentages of mixed types on short distances (two factors: ancient differences of colonizators and recent drifts by isolation (short endogamy) - archaïc types are seen in some districts neighbouring other districts where they are absent -
For I believe I know Brittany (West particuliarly) received few of the neolithic peasants compared to more eastern or southern neighbours - in Anjou, there WERE differences between districts (more "neolithical" in North and near the Loire, as well for 'danubian' and 'cardial-baumes-chaudes' types, less in the 'bocage' district of the "Mauges" where I think there are a more 'cromagnon' and 'cromagnoid-borreby-like' imput, by instance (this corner is close to the eastern breton Loire-Atlantique departement, with some similitudes for populations) -
the ancient studies about skeletons were biased to too much "subtypes" but the 20°Century ones were (in opposition) doing too much rough means for human types - I never heard speaking about regional types in Spain, nevertheless some regions seem showing a bit of 'archaïc' types too ('cromagnon' + 'cromagnoid-borreby' also, seeming not too rare among people of Murcia, by example) - Portugal too (more on the C-Capelle types sometimes) - the studies concerning the sitting-height upon total height or the span show too some neat differences between some regions but were not very often taken in account compared to the eternal cephalic index or statures mean ... -
so: the autosomals surveys will be efficient when they will be done not on a globally high amount of people but rather on well distinct (regionally, culturally) small groups which ancestry is certain: the number of genes implied is so big that we don't need a huge number, spite what someones think - but all what I say here will become out of play before long because the people of today are marrying all over the world - it becomes urgent!
 
I just add that at last Neolithical period in France, some intrusions of Cardial "types" (with a new mediterranean subtype 'baumes-chaudes') followed the garonne river from Mediterranea and reached E-Poitou and surroundings BUT lived poor remnants in Gwascoigne West the Garonne: an example - it is true it is old but...
 
So the Enetoi were either paphlagonian Turks or linked to some form of pottery from Turkmenistan, but I just can't shake the similarity between ancient armorica's Veneti and north-east Italy's Veneti, there must be some Celtic link as the nearby Carni were celts and I suspect they descended from the carnutes Gauls.
 
That is odd indeed. The Caucasian admixture might be a remnant of Neolithic ancestry, perhaps higher in Brittany than in the rest of France.

Your high East European admixture is actually in line with the percentages observed along the English Channel, from Normandy to Belgium. So you might have more Germanic ancestry (especially Norman) than the average for Brittany.


The origin of your U4 could be Mesolithic European (I, R1a), Indo-European (R1a or R1b), either Celtic or more recent Germanic invaders. It's probably not Neolithic though. The U4 in the Caucasus is linked to the Indo-Europeans.

Yes, I also think that U4 is probably very old, and it has not been recently bring in the north-west of France.
Britany has been hit by two invasions in Neolithic: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Expansion_n%C3%A9olithique_.png
 
can you do me a favour and run the new Eurogenes K13 in gedmatch, as your K12a and K12b are very similar to my data numbers.

these are my K13 below
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 29.98
2 West_Med 23.08
3 East_Med 17.3
4 Baltic 16.99
5 West_Asian 8.11
6 Red_Sea 2.29
7 South_Asian 1.16
8 East_Asian 0.56
9 Sub-Saharan 0.31
10 Oceanian 0.22


you are from brittany......strabo states brittany is veneti area...same people as adriatic veneti :LOL:

I do not subscribe to gedmatch. I prefer the "Do it yourself" of Dodecad!
But I am less mediterranean than the French average.
I made a graph for the 3 models of Dodecad, comparing me to the French average:
comparaisonmodele.jpg
 
Yes, I also think that U4 is probably very old, and it has not been recently bring in the north-west of France.
Britany has been hit by two invasions in Neolithic: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Expansion_néolithique_.png

Right - but this map (as other maps) shows the maximal extension of cultural expansion, but does not say anything about demic density of these cultures "initiators" nor even their density of cultural implantation -I hold saying Brittany received few men of the original centers of these 2 neolithical cultures : Cardial left more human remnants in western and southern France a sa whole than in Brittany and "Rubané" people left more human remnants in Alsace/Elsass or Normandy than in Brittany
 
Right - but this map (as other maps) shows the maximal extension of cultural expansion, but does not say anything about demic density of these cultures "initiators" nor even their density of cultural implantation -I hold saying Brittany received few men of the original centers of these 2 neolithical cultures : Cardial left more human remnants in western and southern France a sa whole than in Brittany and "Rubané" people left more human remnants in Alsace/Elsass or Normandy than in Brittany


It's true, of course, that it's often unclear how much demic involvement there is in any given cultural expansion. That said, what evidence leads you to believe that Brittany didn't receive substantial members from the centers of these two neolithic cultures? Or at least significant gene flow via their descendents, descendents who, at least outside the Balkans, seemed to engage in a rather limited amount of inter-marriage with the locals, thereby preserving their genetic signatures.

I'm waiting to see the actual paper, but if the abstract is correct, this four thousand year old farmer from Burgos (2,000 B.C.) is much the same as the farmer from Sweden, who is much the same as the farmer from the Tyrol. Yes, Gok 4 may have mixed a little more with the prior inhabitants, but basically, farmers from very widely separated areas of Europe share a remarkable genetic similarity.

http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/rec...d=diva2:665597
The spread of farming, the neolithisation process, swept over Europe after the advent of the farming lifestyle in the near east approximately 11,000 years ago. However the mode of transmission and its impact on the demographic patterns of Europe remains largely unknown. In this study we obtained : 66,476,944 bp of genomic DNA from the remains of a 4000 year old Neolithic farmer from the site of El Portalón, 15 km east of Burgos, Spain. We compared the genomic signature of this individual to modern-day populations as well as the few Neolithic individuals that has produced large-scale autosomal data. The Neolithic Portalón individual is genetically most similar to southern Europeans, similar to a Scandinavian Neolithic farmer and the Tyrolean Iceman. In contrast, the Neolithic Portalón individual displays little affinity to two Mesolithic samples from the near-by area, La Brana, demonstrating a distinct change in population history between 7,000 and 4,000 years ago for the northern Iberian Peninsula.

I think it's important to remember how few H/G's there were in Europe when the First Farmers arrived. I don't think it's analogous to the situation in Mexico or South America, where the rise of agriculture had led to the growth of large populations in certain areas.

Whatever more H/G or more northeastern input contributed to the genome of Europeans would not seem to have arrived in Iberia, for example, until perhaps 1600 B.C. where it made less of an impact than in Central Europe and the Isles perhaps because the central European and Isles farming communities had collapsed due to some combination of climate change, environmental collapse because of over use of the soil, the fact that the Neolithic package of the time was not yet appropriate for the climate and soils of the area, or even that some newcomers from the steppe brought with them some particularly nasty plague, as they did many times thereafter.
 
I apologise for resurrecting an ancient thread but what exactly is Caucasian admixture? Is it CHG-related? If so, how come Northern Europe has such low percentages, considering they have much more Yamnaya ancestry than Southern Europe? The Western Steppe Herders (Yamnaya) are half EHG, half CHG. Besides, the percentages seem way too exaggerated for the Western Balkans, Austria and Hungary. 20-30% may be true for Greece and Italy, even perhaps Bulgaria, but definitely not for Bosnia, Croatia or Austria (where it's still 10-20% according to the map on page 1). I am aware of the CHG-related component that arrived in the Aegean during the Bronze Age on its own, not via the Yamnaya admixture. Not claiming to be an expert but I am a little confused on this issue.
 

This thread has been viewed 58667 times.

Back
Top