New map of mtDNA haplogroup HV

Maciamo

Maciamo

Veteran member
Admin
Messages
9,804
Reaction score
3,067
Points
113
Location
Lothier
Ethnic group
Italo-celto-germanic
Here comes the map of haplogroup HV, the mother of H and V, which appears to have originated in the Middle East. HV peaks in Mesopotamia and Iran. In Europe it reflects the establishment of some Neolithic farmers (esp. between Bulgaria and southern Belarus), which may correspond to Y-haplogroups J and T, rather than E1b1b or G2a.

The high frequency of HV in Calabria and Sicily is more difficult to explain since it far exceeds the levels observed in Greece. They may be due to founder effects among either the Neolithic or Greek colonisers. On the other hand the percentage in Tuscany is similar to that of Turkey, the presumed homeland of the Etruscans.

I have to double check the sources for Iceland as nothing can explain the 3.6% of HV reported.



N.B. : This map does not include the data for HV0 (aka pre-V), which was merged with the data for haplogroup V.
 
Last edited:
I wonder how Bulgarians have so much of it and Macedonians which are basically the same stock as them have in western part below 0 ?
 
Maciamo said:
Here comes the map of haplogroup HV, the mother of H and V, which appears to have originated in the Middle East. HV peaks in Mesopotamia and Iran. In Europe it reflects the establishment of some Neolithic farmers (esp. between Bulgaria and southern Belarus), which may correspond to Y-haplogroups J and T, rather than E1b1b or G2a.

The high frequency of HV in Calabria and Sicily is more difficult to explain since it far exceeds the levels observed in Greece. They may be due to founder effects among either the Neolithic or Greek colonisers. On the other hand the percentage in Tuscany is similar to that of Turkey, the presumed homeland of the Etruscans.

I have to double check the sources for Iceland as nothing can explain the 3.6% of HV reported.
Click to expand...

If V was born of HV and it was born in Iberia, how could HV be restricted to Neolithic or later migrations to Europe?
 
elghund said:
If V was born of HV and it was born in Iberia, how could HV be restricted to Neolithic or later migrations to Europe?
Click to expand...
Maybe different more 'recent' subclades of HV migrated later into Europe? Btw, I do think that some 'recent' subclades of HV (like mine type) migrated much later into Europe. Maybe with the Jews or even Iranic Alanians...
 
Maciamo said:
Here comes the map of haplogroup HV, the mother of H and V, which appears to have originated in the Middle East. HV peaks in Mesopotamia and Iran. In Europe it reflects the establishment of some Neolithic farmers (esp. between Bulgaria and southern Belarus), which may correspond to Y-haplogroups J and T, rather than E1b1b or G2a.
Click to expand...
Great work like always. How many hours of work do you put into these maps? This is madness. Thanks! HV in Bulgaria and Ukraine can be linked to Iranic tribes from the Eastern Steppes.
 
"Scholars claim Bulgarians descended from Iran. The place of origin of the Ancient Bulgarians is most likely Eastern Iran, a group of anthropologists and scientists have claimed after an exploratory trip to the Persian lands." : http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=117903
 
I assume Haplogroup HV was present in Europe already during paleolithicum, but most of it probably arrived in Europe during neolithic period.
 
30% of Macedonia's population is Albanian. Albanians score low in this clade. So this could be partly responsable for low macedonian infusion of this haplogroup. What amazes me is the fact that Italians are heavyly of Middle Eastern heretage in male and female side. So are the Greeks but that fact was well known for them.
 
Maciamo said:
Here comes the map of haplogroup HV, the mother of H and V, which appears to have originated in the Middle East. HV peaks in Mesopotamia and Iran. In Europe it reflects the establishment of some Neolithic farmers (esp. between Bulgaria and southern Belarus), which may correspond to Y-haplogroups J and T, rather than E1b1b or G2a.

The high frequency of HV in Calabria and Sicily is more difficult to explain since it far exceeds the levels observed in Greece. They may be due to founder effects among either the Neolithic or Greek colonisers. On the other hand the percentage in Tuscany is similar to that of Turkey, the presumed homeland of the Etruscans.

I have to double check the sources for Iceland as nothing can explain the 3.6% of HV reported.

Click to expand...

The first thing that I thought of in terms of Calabria was the R1b1 Ht35 map. It'a a pretty good fit for Italy as a whole and some other areas as well.

Here's a link to it: http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/28935-New-map-of-R1b-ht35-(L23-L51-L11-Z2103)
 
Maciamo said:
Here comes the map of haplogroup HV, the mother of H and V, which appears to have originated in the Middle East. HV peaks in Mesopotamia and Iran. In Europe it reflects the establishment of some Neolithic farmers (esp. between Bulgaria and southern Belarus), which may correspond to Y-haplogroups J and T, rather than E1b1b or G2a.

The high frequency of HV in Calabria and Sicily is more difficult to explain since it far exceeds the levels observed in Greece. They may be due to founder effects among either the Neolithic or Greek colonisers. On the other hand the percentage in Tuscany is similar to that of Turkey, the presumed homeland of the Etruscans.

I have to double check the sources for Iceland as nothing can explain the 3.6% of HV reported.

Click to expand...

Do you have any data on the friulian component?. what town/s?

I ask, because history states that a Roman Heruli legion was formed and the heruli women and children where placed in the friulian town of Concordia. according to baltic history, the heruli came from samland in modern latvia
 
Sile said:
As per link
http://dienekes.blogspot.com.au/2013/10/new-adna-capture-method-plus-some-data.html
the HV and U3b are true Thracian markers and not Bulgarian as these ancient markers are from the iron-age. Bulgarians IIRC came into modern bulgaria around 800AD, thats about 1500 years difference
Click to expand...

Great find;
But the Iron-age corpses in connection with this map (mtDNA HV) also shows that modern-day Bulgarians have a notable Iron-age Thracian DNA continuity (also concerning mtDNA U3);
Other peoples in the south Balkans do not have this ancient (Iron-age) DNA continuity of mtDNA HV/U3; which is strange especially in the case of Albanians who seem to have none of either the 2 mtDNA Hg's;

Sicily and Calabria look a bit like Magna Graecia propably a denser concentration remained than in modern-day Greece;
 
Nobody1 said:
Great find;
But the Iron-age corpses in connection with this map also shows that modern-day Bulgarians have a notable Iron-age Thracian DNA continuity;
Which other peoples in the south Balkans do not have - this ancient (Iron-age) DNA continuity;

;
Click to expand...

True, but graves are iron-age and bulgars came from north of Crimea later. we have 100% guarantee they are not bulgar.
It also indicates that modern bulgarians have some or most ancient thracian and the high percentage in the map must be mostly thracian instead of bulgar.

The ancient thracians must have come from eastern persia or kurds initially
 
Nobody1 said:
Other peoples in the south Balkans do not have this ancient (Iron-age) DNA continuity of mtDNA HV/U3; which is strange especially in the case of Albanians who seem to have none of either the 2 mtDNA Hg's;
Click to expand...

Albanians have more HV than everybody else in the Balkans, according to Bosch et al. About U3, I would say 1-2% maybe, which is hard to pick up in small samples.
 
Sile said:
True, but graves are iron-age and bulgars came from north of Crimea later. we have 100% guarantee they are not bulgar.
Click to expand...

Yes of course that goes with out saying;
Iron-age Bulgaria = Indo-European Thracians / Thraco-Cimmerian complex
+ all available Historical documentations of the Ancient scholars;

Modern-day Bulgarians are from the Thracians plus medieval Bulgars; Your find and this map clearly illustrate the Thracian heritage and continuity;

Sile said:
The ancient thracians must have come from eastern persia or kurds initially
Click to expand...

Thracians were Indo-Europeans and therefor from the Urheimat like all other Indo-Europeans;
And judging by the Thraco-Cimmerian complex the Thracians came via the Danube from North Black sea to the East Balkans and after the Indo-European Hittite empire collapsed - the Thracians (several tribes) crossed into Anatolia from Europe;

Strabo - Book VII/III
And the Phrygians themselves are Brigians, a Thracian tribe, as are also the Mygdonians, the Bebricians, the Medobithynians, the Bithynians, and the Thynians, and, I think, also the Mariandynians. These peoples, to be sure, have all utterly quitted Europe, but the Mysi have remained there.

Kristian Kristiansen - Europe before History (1999)
Classical sources mention between fifty and one hundred Thracian tribes.....Thracian culture was heavily influenced by the Pontic cultural koine around the Black Sea, by Macedonia, and by the neighbouring states on the coast of Asia Minor. This takes us back to the 9th and 8th centuries.....In a survey of Macedonian and Thracian bronzes Jan Bouzek (1973;1974) demonstrated the emergence of a circum-Pontic or Thraco-Cimmerian cultural koine from 800 BC. Here old Urnfield traditions in metalwork mixed with new Cimmerian influences originating in the Caucasian region,
 
kamani said:
Albanians have more HV than everybody else in the Balkans, according to Bosch et al. About U3, I would say 1-2% maybe, which is hard to pick up in small samples.
Click to expand...

I thought so;
Thats why i said its strange 'which is strange especially in the case of Albanians'
Not sure if its more than everyone else (especially compared to Bulgarians);
 
This study about Cro-Magnon mtDNA (Paglicci-25 & Paglicci-12) from South Italy ~23-24000 years ago;

Caramelli et al 2003
http://www.pnas.org/content/100/11/6593.full#aff-1

Paglicci-25 has the following motifs: +7,025 AluI, 00073A, 11719G, and 12308A. Therefore, this sequence belongs to either haplogroups HV or pre-HV, two haplogroups rare in general but with a comparatively high frequencies among today's Near-Easterners (35). Paglicci-12 shows the motifs 00073G, 10873C, 10238T, and AACC between nucleotide positions 10397 and 10400, which allows the classification of this sequence into the macrohaplogroupN,containing haplogroups W, X, I, N1a, N1b, N1c, and N*. Following the definition given in ref. 36, the presence of a single mutation in 16,223 within HRVI suggests a classification of Paglicci-12 into the haplogroup N*, which is observed today in several samples from the Near East and, at lower frequencies, in the Caucasus (35).

If Paglicci-25 (Cro-Magnon) is mtDNA HV than forget about Magna Graecia and the Greeks; Cro-Magnons at least 22,000 years earlier;
 
elghund said:
If V was born of HV and it was born in Iberia, how could HV be restricted to Neolithic or later migrations to Europe?
Click to expand...

It isn't certain that V was born in Iberia. Pre-V (aka HV0) is found mostly in Northwest Africa, so I would rather assume that V first appeared there then moved to Iberia toward the end of the last Ice Age. A founder effect in the colonisers would explain why Europeans are mostly V, while Northwest Africans are both pre-V and V.
 
Sile said:
Do you have any data on the friulian component?. what town/s?

I ask, because history states that a Roman Heruli legion was formed and the heruli women and children where placed in the friulian town of Concordia. according to baltic history, the heruli came from samland in modern latvia
Click to expand...

The data is for Udine (Brisighelli et al. 2012).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

This thread has been viewed 69403 times.

Back
Top