Nord Stream Pipeline 1 and 2 Explosion

It's nothing to do with Dugin, and everything to do with Aristotle. The elite can promote the common good of their people, or they can act against the common good. And yes, if true populists come to power in Europe, they will form a new elite. The question is how they will rule.

Then read Dugin's fourth political theory and ypu will it has a lot to do with it.
Neoliberals have nothing with the common good, they can only think economically. homo economicus.
The virtues of res publica are unknown to them.....

Can its industries remain in operation and its people kept warm at the same time? We shall see. You put a lot more faith in the current ruling class than me.

We will see.



You misunderstand my point. I don't think that an ever-expanding "knowledge sector" can or should replace productive labor or the harnessing of natural resources. First, labor has its own dignity, and skilled labor is the source of all higher culture. And technological know-how in truth belongs to the people, not to the cooperations that ship manufacturing & component processes abroad. Technologies should have their own AOC protection the same as wine or cheese. So if you're from Sancerre, you have ownership of the technologies of Sancerre. Second, all societies and states should strive toward self-sufficiency, especially continental states like the USA or continental unions like the EU. With the exception of certain rare minerals, Europe should be able to produce all that it requires, and when it runs into limits, it should devise technological solutions. That is how technique advances. And most of its people should be employed as engineers, technicians, farmers, engaged in real processes, not in the so-called "knowledge sector."

You are a Romantic thinker....bit Luddite. Even a touch of guild socialism, syndicalism into fascist corporatism. Enough labels. There is a lot of should in your reasoning but how is this going to be realized?


I have to admit, a long winter of chaos and suffering sounds good in theory. Not sure if I would want to live through it myself.
I guess you already live in autarky? ;)

Let the,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI30s68J8u0
come!

Malaparte likes it edgy doen't he just like the original one....;)

That's why I said Russia's long term interest is with Germany. But in the short term, BRICS is supporting her.

Russia is out the coming years. Even a regime change will cost years, they turned back to the times to good old KGB times....

The US makes a helluva lot more sense as the Nordstream culprit than Russia.

Yes the president has ordered to blow it up in front of the NATO partners Denmark and Germany....and the self hate seems so big on the right that Tucker spins a conspiracy theory out of it that already fails with a simple fact check.

However, if you want a more sophisticated theory, with multiple actors and factions, and with Davos as the true culprit, and the US as scapegoat, then read Tom Luongo's take == https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/luongo-curious-whodunit-nordstreams-1-2
But regardless, nobody with any sense thinks that Russia blew up her own pipelines. That was the only non-military leverage she had.

No one with any sense thinks that the US need that kind of actions to put pressure on Germany or other countries...What makes sense for the US to blow it up now? Just like bicicleur says unto 22-2 it could make sense (but still unlikely)....after that? what is the motive for the US right now?
 
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Then read Dugin's fourth political theory and you will it has a lot to do with it.
Neoliberals have nothing with the common good, they can only think economically. homo economicus.
The virtues of res publica are unknown to them.....

You don't need Dugin to make these criticisms. Christopher Lasch for one didn't. And I could name many, many others. That would be trite.

You are a Romantic thinker....bit Luddite. Even a touch of guild socialism, syndicalism into fascist corporatism. Enough labels. There is a lot of should in your reasoning but how is this going to be realized?

I accept all these labels. However, my romanticism is informed by the hard law of history that no people survives for long (let alone flourishes) that does not produce its own requirements or deign to perform its own labor. Autarky should be aspired for.

As to the how, limit the sphere of trade, and nurture the identity, cohesion and purpose of the people, i.e., instill virtue.

I guess you already live in autarky?

Quite the contrary.

...and the self hate seems so big on the right that Tucker spins a conspiracy theory out of it that already fails with a simple fact check

I haven't watched Tucker lately. But evidently criticism and skepticism of government claims & actions now counts as "self hate"? No, it's the current governments that arguably hate their own people, though "contempt for" and "disregard of" would be my word choice -->So if I oppose he who hates me, that's self-hate? Such is Northerner's unfailing logic.
 
You don't need Dugin to make these criticisms. Christopher Lasch for one didn't. And I could name many, many others. That would be trite.
'heaven in a heartless world', Lasch was better in critics....that's more with populisme the case imo.

I accept all these labels. However, my romanticism is informed by the hard law of history that no people survives for long (let alone flourishes) that does not produce its own requirements or deign to perform its own labor. Autarky should be aspired for.

As to the how, limit the sphere of trade, and nurture the identity, cohesion and purpose of the people, i.e., instill virtue.

About the time Rus were in Kyiv during the ninth century my Frisian ancestry was already seafaring and trading in whole Europe. At that time trader equalled Frisian!

So why limit trade when this is the purpose of my people?

https://www.amazon.com/Edge-World-Cultural-History-Transformation/dp/168177206X

Quite the contrary.
I haven't watched Tucker lately. But evidently criticism and skepticism of government claims & actions now counts as "self hate"? No, it's the current governments that arguably hate their own people, though "contempt for" and "disregard of" would be my word choice -->So if I oppose he who hates me, that's self-hate? Such is Northerner's unfailing logic.

Thank you ;)
But evidently criticism and skepticism of government claims & actions
In the earlier days this was seen as typical leftist. Always nagging. Where is the US patriotism?

I don't see through the lens of elites vs folk and government vs the people as 'blocks' that's too monolithic imo. Most populist leaders are part of the elite. Example:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thierry_Baudet
 
In the earlier days this was seen as typical leftist. Always nagging. Where is the US patriotism?

Most conservatives think Biden is disgrace to the country, as is his administration. Hating the current administration does not mean we have self-hatred as Americans. In fact, conservatives think liberals have autophobia, self-hatred. Because their agenda is to constantly "fix" what they perceive as wrong with the country. Far-Left Wing people hate the United States, in fact they are not proud of being American at all. They are the ones that want to rip down statues from the past. Mind you, not just confederate statues, but statues of Washington and Jefferson. Bill DeBlasio, the unpopular former NYC mayor, had a statue of Jefferson removed, to appease the ultra-progressives. I am not sure if it is a rhetorical device, but you are conflating the wrong things.

Republicans are far more proud to be American than Democrats:

AktBkra.png


https://news.gallup.com/poll/394202/record-low-extremely-proud-american.aspx

This is quantifiable.

^^It is pretty remarkable actually, considering that the US government is trying to entrap American right-wingers in a politically motivated drag-net to "root out" white supremacy.

The majority of Republicans are indeed White Americans, and the Latinos are probably White-Hispanics (mostly Iberian origin) typically Cuban:

https://www.pewresearch.org/religio.../among/party-affiliation/republican-lean-rep/

The Democrats are also mostly white, but with larger shares of minority voters.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religio...te/among/party-affiliation/democrat-lean-dem/

These people feel less proud to be American (a fact), because of identity politics constantly reminding them of past injustices. This is the real issue in this country, because instead of moving forward, the democrats in power are playing their emotions to keep them in the fold. This is hatred of the country, and the desire to destroy the past; even re-write the past. Thus they must even ramp it up, as they have done in recent times, to stay relevant.

The fatal flaw in left-wing orientation is they must constantly have an enemy to exist. Once they finally destroy us, they will destroy themselves, maybe by sheer incompetence like in Chernobyl.
 
Most conservatives think Biden is disgrace to the country, as is his administration. Hating the current administration does not mean we have self-hatred as Americans. In fact, conservatives think liberals have autophobia, self-hatred. Because their agenda is to constantly "fix" what they perceive as wrong with the country. Far-Left Wing people hate the United States, in fact they are not proud of being American at all. They are the ones that want to rip down statues from the past. Mind you, not just confederate statues, but statues of Washington and Jefferson. Bill DeBlasio, the unpopular former NYC mayor, had a statue of Jefferson removed, to appease the ultra-progressives. I am not sure if it is a rhetorical device, but you are conflating the wrong things.

Republicans are far more proud to be American than Democrats:

AktBkra.png


https://news.gallup.com/poll/394202/record-low-extremely-proud-american.aspx

This is quantifiable.

^^It is pretty remarkable actually, considering that the US government is trying to entrap American right-wingers in a politically motivated drag-net to "root out" white supremacy.

The majority of Republicans are indeed White Americans, and the Latinos are probably White-Hispanics (mostly Iberian origin) typically Cuban:

https://www.pewresearch.org/religio.../among/party-affiliation/republican-lean-rep/

The Democrats are also mostly white, but with larger shares of minority voters.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religio...te/among/party-affiliation/democrat-lean-dem/

These people feel less proud to be American (a fact), because of identity politics constantly reminding them of past injustices. This is the real issue in this country, because instead of moving forward, the democrats in power are playing their emotions to keep them in the fold. This is hatred of the country, and the desire to destroy the past; even re-write the past. Thus they must even ramp it up, as they have done in recent times, to stay relevant.

The fatal flaw in left-wing orientation is they must constantly have an enemy to exist. Once they finally destroy us, they will destroy themselves, maybe by sheer incompetence like in Chernobyl.


I must add myself the anti-establishment was in the earlier days connected with the left, the establishment was conservative.

The shift is that the Reps in populist style have become 'anti-establishment' (the Trumpist faction).

Imo is conservative first of all modesty.....nothing modest on right wing populist.
 
I must add myself the anti-establishment was in the earlier days connected with the left, the establishment was conservative.

The shift is that the Reps in populist style have become 'anti-establishment' (the Trumpist faction).

Imo is conservative first of all modesty.....nothing modest on right wing populist.

I beg to differ.

the Democrats want to push LGBTQ education on small children as a part of the curriculum:

https://www.njspotlightnews.org/202...ndated-2019-but-still-not-widely-implemented/

Not to mention other far-left wing ideas of the history of the United States. Including teaching children that being White is a negative attribute.
 
Miscommunication, I honestly don't understand your reaction.

The point was about showing you what the Democrats think of as "modesty".

We are sending our children to Catholic school, a conservative one, (i.e. a real Catholic school). I was born and raised Catholic, but I am truthfully an agnostic. Nevertheless, I want them to grow up in the catholic culture, that teaches traditional values. The Republican party, at least the base, believes in traditional values, and true modesty.
 
Imo is conservative first of all modesty.....nothing modest on right wing populist.

Trump's style was bombastic, and many "alt right" personalities are self-styled "edge lords," but I am not the one or the other. In fact, I am arguing for a return to limits and a focus on restoring the internal health of the US, in particular, rebuilding its industrial capacity, de-financializing its economy, promoting the traditional family and small towns. and restoring its identity as a country founded and built by European stock. Reverse the leftist purges of the military, dismantle the FBI and CIA, and withdraw from all bases outside the Western Hemisphere. Focus on ourselves and our own destiny, and let the rest of the world have theirs. That is the very definition of modesty. And it's consistent with the old Republican Party of Robert Taft, before it was corrupted by the temptations of empire.

Of course to get from here to there will require radical measures, so perhaps that's what you mean by not modest? In which case you likely prefer the "modesty" of conservatism precisely because it is so ineffectual, i.e., a conservatism that conserves nothing.
 
The point was about showing you what the Democrats think of as "modesty".

We are sending our children to Catholic school, a conservative one, (i.e. a real Catholic school). I was born and raised Catholic, but I am truthfully an agnostic. Nevertheless, I want them to grow up in the catholic culture, that teaches traditional values. The Republican party, at least the base, believes in traditional values, and true modesty.

Ok in general sense I associate conservative (in some kind of Burkean sense) with modesty, with gradual chance. Not opposed to change, conservative is not reactionary....May be it's more an attitude of prudentia.

Radical populist are fare from modest. And they have certain revolutionary tendencies too. Trump and the Trust are in no sense prudent (not in content, not in style), just like the Trump nephew's in Europe.

With regard to schools, my kids went and go explicit to a public school with children of a different background, higher educated parents, lower educated parents, different religions. I want that they experience that there is more in the world than higher educated people.
 
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Trump's style was bombastic, and many "alt right" personalities are self-styled "edge lords," but I am not the one or the other. In fact, I am arguing for a return to limits and a focus on restoring the internal health of the US, in particular, rebuilding its industrial capacity, de-financializing its economy, promoting the traditional family and small towns. and restoring its identity as a country founded and built by European stock. Reverse the leftist purges of the military, dismantle the FBI and CIA, and withdraw from all bases outside the Western Hemisphere. Focus on ourselves and our own destiny, and let the rest of the world have theirs. That is the very definition of modesty. And it's consistent with the old Republican Party of Robert Taft, before it was corrupted by the temptations of empire.

Of course to get from here to there will require radical measures, so perhaps that's what you mean by not modest? In which case you likely prefer the "modesty" of conservatism precisely because it is so ineffectual, i.e., a conservatism that conserves nothing.

You first sentence is exactly what I mean! I mean the Trump Tower and Mar-A-Lago all that plastic fantastic, foil gold, marble...But ok that is bombastic indeed.

What I mean is Bannon, we need "disruption", "you need some killers" that is not modest, not gradual that is right wing Jacobinism:
 
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The reaction to the sabotage of three of the four Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines in four places on Monday, September 26, has focused on speculations about who did it and whether NATO will make a serious attempt to discover the answer. Yet instead of panic, there has been a great sigh of diplomatic relief, even calm. Disabling these pipelines ends the uncertainty and worries on the part of US/NATO diplomats that nearly reached a crisis proportion the previous week, when large demonstrations took place in Germany calling for the sanctions to end and to commission Nord Stream 2 to resolve the energy shortage.
The German public was coming to understand what it will mean if their steel companies, fertilizer companies, glass companies and toilet-paper companies were shutting down. These companies were forecasting that they would have to go out of business entirely – or shift operations to the United States – if Germany did not withdraw from the trade and currency sanctions against Russia and permit Russian gas and oil imports to resume, and presumably to fall back from their astronomical eight to tenfold price increase.
Yet State Department hawk Victoria Nuland already had stated in January that “one way or another Nord Stream 2 will not move forward” if Russia responded to the accelerating Ukrainian military attacks on the Russian-speaking eastern oblasts. President Biden backed up U.S. insistence on February 7, promising that “there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it. … I promise you, we will be able to do it.”
Most observers simply assumed that these statements reflected the obvious fact that German politicians were fully in the US/NATO pocket. Germany’s politicians held fast turbines refusing to authorize Nord Stream 2, and Canada soon seized the Siemens dynamos needed to send gas through Nord Stream 1. That seemed to settle matters until German industry – and a rising number of voters – finally began to calculate just what blocking Russian gas would mean for Germany’s industrial firms, and hence domestic employment.
Germany’s willingness to self-impose an economic depression was wavering – although not its politicians or the EU bureaucracy. If policymakers were to put German business interests and living standards first, NATO’s common sanctions and New Cold War front would be broken. Italy and France might follow suit. That prospect made it urgent to take the anti-Russian sanctions out of the hands of democratic politics.
Despite being an act of violence, sabotaging the pipelines has restored calm to US/NATO diplomatic relations. There is no more uncertainty about whether Europe may break away from U.S. diplomacy by restoring mutual trade and investment with Russia. The threat of Europe breaking away from the US/NATO trade and financial sanctions against Russia has been solved, seemingly for the foreseeable future. Russia has announced that the gas pressure is falling in three of the four pipelines, and the infusion of salt water will irreversibly corrode the pipes.
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2022/09/michael-hudson-on-the-euro-without-germany.html


It’s already widely believed that the explosions were the doing of a state actor. On top of that, the area of the attack was heavily monitored by both Sweden and Denmark, and the Baltic generally is also well surveilled…by NATO members. And as many have pointed out, on top of Russia having at best limited opportunity, it lacks apparent motive.

The former diplomat M. K. Bhadrakumar pointed out yesterday:
The German security services are of the opinion that only a state actor could have damaged the undersea pipeline, suggesting “divers or a mini-submarine” could have installed mines or explosives on the pipeline. When asked to comment, the US Secretary of State Antony Blinken was non-committal saying “these are initial reports (of sabotage) and we haven’t confirmed them yet. But if it is confirmed, that’s clearly in no one’s interest.”…
Principally, Russia loses whatever leverage it has over German policies at a juncture when a grave economic crisis looms ahead and there is growing demand to review Berlin’s decision against the commissioning of Nord Stream 2. Last week, large demonstrations took place in Germany calling for the commissioning of Nord Stream 2 to resolve energy shortage.
As for the German leadership, it too no longer has an option to bite the bullet and seek resumption of Russian gas supplies (except by begging Poland and Ukraine to cooperate in the reopening of the Yamal and Druzhba pipelines.) On the other hand, Chancellor Scholz’s trip to the Gulf region (Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Qatar) last weekend seeking more oil supplies failed to produce the results he had hoped for….
From another perspective, the Nord Stream pipelines have been disabled at a defining moment in the Ukraine conflict when a lull is expected through the fall until December. Conceivably, this presents a small window of opportunity for dialogue with Moscow. There are rumours that Scholz’s Gulf tour also aimed at seeking help from Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman who has excellent relations with Russian President Vladimir Putin….
Therefore, whoever struck Nord Stream struck had a perfect sense of timing. This dastardly act is state-sponsored and it only highlights that there are powerful forces in the West who want the conflict to prolong and will go the whole hog, no matter what it takes, to smother any incipient stirrings that aspire for ceasefire and dialogue.
Global Times, the English-language official organ for China, in a plausibly deniable manner, pointed a finger at the US:
The anonymous expert said that Russia has no reason to destroy the infrastructure and throw away its own bargaining chips in managing the energy crisis, and that basic logic suggests that whoever benefits most from the current situation is most likely to have carried out, or at least maneuvered, the sabotage.
If the US is behind it, Washington could bind Europe, particularly Germany, closer to confront Russia, and American energy giants could earn enormous amounts as Europe’s alternative source of gas purchases, the expert said.


. . . But if this view were to become conventional wisdom, it would lead to great alarm and distrust towards the US. It would mean, as Michael Hudson argued early on, that the US was willing to inflict severe and lasting economic damage on an important ally and harm the health and welfare of its citizens. This would be an appalling betrayal as well as compelling evidence of the lengths to which the US was willing to go to try to keep its status as the global hegemon. Alexander Mercouris was not exaggerating to depict this scenario as “nihilistic” But he also pointed out that unlike past US Administrations, it was not inconceivable for Team Biden, which has been exceptionally belligerent and reckless.
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/202...onal-terrorism-what-else-might-russia-do.html

 
Ok in general sense I associate conservative (in some kind of Burkean sense) with modesty, with gradual chance. Not opposed to change, conservative is not reactionary....May be it's more an attitude of prudentia.
Radical populist are fare from modest. And they have certain revolutionary tendencies too. Trump and the Trumpets are in no sense prudent (nit in content, not in style), just like the Trump nephew's in Europe.
With regard to schools, may kids went and go explicit to a public school with children of a different background, higher educated parents, lower educated parents, different religions. I want that they experience that there is more in the world than higher educated people.
I have no problem with allowing children going to school and interacting with people from different backgrounds. But teaching children about anal sex and group sex, etc is disgusting and horrible. If people want to believe in Marxist economic theory, fine. But these lunatics trying to poison the youth is unacceptable. Ironically the real life communists murdered homosexuals.
 
Trump's style was bombastic, and many "alt right" personalities are self-styled "edge lords," but I am not the one or the other. In fact, I am arguing for a return to limits and a focus on restoring the internal health of the US, in particular, rebuilding its industrial capacity, de-financializing its economy, promoting the traditional family and small towns. and restoring its identity as a country founded and built by European stock. Reverse the leftist purges of the military, dismantle the FBI and CIA, and withdraw from all bases outside the Western Hemisphere. Focus on ourselves and our own destiny, and let the rest of the world have theirs. That is the very definition of modesty. And it's consistent with the old Republican Party of Robert Taft, before it was corrupted by the temptations of empire.

Of course to get from here to there will require radical measures, so perhaps that's what you mean by not modest? In which case you likely prefer the "modesty" of conservatism precisely because it is so ineffectual, i.e., a conservatism that conserves nothing.

In some sense you almost look like a Quaker-or Amish- to me and I have the respect for a kind or rural autarky.

Nevertheless I'm not the guy going to the countryside, big garden, self baking etc etc. I'm to urbanized for that I guess. And on a global scale I don't think ypu could arrange this all. But the US and Canada have probably space enough.
 
I have no problem with allowing children going to school and interacting with people from different backgrounds. But teaching children about anal sex and group sex, etc is disgusting and horrible. If people want to believe in Marxist economic theory, fine. But these lunatics trying to poison the youth is unacceptable. Ironically the real life communists murdered homosexuals.

Bourgeois bohème doesn't mean communism Jovialis.

And I'm pretty for individual freedom, live and let live. Everyone has it's own worth, even if they make choices I don't share.

I know stories of children in orthodox Protestant schools who are gay but are not allowed to express it because otherwise it is hell and damnation.

Or those who refuse the evolution theory....
 
Frankly, I have grown very tired of Trump and all of his drama and legal mess. I hope he doesn't run in 2024.


I would prefer someone like Ron DeSantis to take the nomination.


He has a Law degree from Harvard, and he was a Naval officer. He is also very well liked in the state he governs.


In the end Trump is just some rich kid... DeSantis is discipline, intelligent and accomplished.


We need people who are serious, not just in it for vanity.
 
Bourgeois bohème doesn't mean communism Jovialis.

And I'm pretty for individual freedom, live and let live. Everyone has it's own worth, even if they make choices I don't share.

I know stories of children in orthodox Protestant schools who are gay but are not allowed to express it because otherwise it is hell and damnation.

Or those who refuse the evolution theory....

I have no problem with gay people, we are actually friends with a gay couple. They're nice people. But I do have a problem with schools making it mandatory to teach children about homosexuality, transgenderism, etc. This is not a subject that should be discussed in elementary school.

If that is the way public school goes, like I said, I will put my children in Catholic school. That is my choice, and individual freedom to raise my child in the way that I see fit.
 
Ok in general sense I associate conservative (in some kind of Burkean sense) with modesty, with gradual chance. Not opposed to change, conservative is not reactionary....May be it's more an attitude of prudentia.

Radical populist are fare from modest. And they have certain revolutionary tendencies too. Trump and the Trust are in no sense prudent (not in content, not in style), just like the Trump nephew's in Europe.

With regard to schools, my kids went and go explicit to a public school with children of a different background, higher educated parents, lower educated parents, different religions. I want that they experience that there is more in the world than higher educated people.

This country would benefit from a more "reactionary" administration, because the left-wing has become so radical, they want to teach children about anal sex. WTF is that? I think if most democrats weren't zombies, and actually thought about what is going on, they would be appalled as well. Most people have an IQ of 90-100, they cannot think for themselves, let alone govern themselves.

People should have to pass an IQ test to have the right to vote... I'm only half-kidding about that. Because if it was feasible to pass that law, I would totally go for it.
 
In some sense you almost look like a Quaker-or Amish- to me and I have the respect for a kind or rural autarky.

Nevertheless I'm not the guy going to the countryside, big garden, self baking etc etc. I'm to urbanized for that I guess. And on a global scale I don't think ypu could arrange this all. But the US and Canada have probably space enough.

I too admire the Quakers and the Amish. However, if you look at what I said upthread, I said that a continent-spanning country such as the USA should aspire to autarky, whereas Europe would need to have substantial trade relations with Russia, and so a self-contained north Eurasian economic sphere stretching from Lisbon to Vladivostock, but excluding China & India. And just as in medieval times, trade in rare minerals and certain luxury goods would be the exception to this policy-ideal.
 
Frankly, I have grown very tired of Trump and all of his drama and legal mess. I hope he doesn't run in 2024.


I would prefer someone like Ron DeSantis to take the nomination.


He has a Law degree from Harvard, and he was a Naval officer. He is also very well liked in the state he governs.


In the end Trump is just some rich kid... DeSantis is discipline, intelligent and accomplished.


We need people who are serious, not just in it for vanity.

I prefer DeSantis over Trump as well, for a host of reasons, not the least of which is his youth. Though I would not want to make a hard-and-fast rule excluding the elderly from office, we suffer from a surfeit of geriocracy.
 

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