Population history from the Neolithic to present on the Mediterranean island of Sardi

Pygmalion said:
So, the iron age sample from the study about the Western Mediterranean islands comes from a town called Usellus in the Campidano region. In Roman times it apparently was a Roman colony as a bronze tablet found there suggests, the colony was probably founded around the second century bc, so isn't it possible for that sample to be a Roman colonist? As for the late antiquity samples, they all come from one site, a cave that can only be reached by the sea near the Sardinian capital of Cagliari (Cava dei Colombi), a strange place to bury the dead.
Click to expand...

Yes, and as Ice pointed out there was no archaeological context.

It's still true they get good fits from modeling the HGDP samples with it, but they still may not be providing an accurate picture of what was going on in the island.
 
Thanks for sharing the map and your thoughts on substructure within Sardinia, Angela, that's really useful context. You present some really good interpretations of the findings.

Out of curiosity, have you ever worked "professionally" on Sardinian population history?
 
The paper says that there is population continuity from Neolithic till Nuraghe period, but in the late period there are four samples (post 1200 BC) being J2b2a1, it is a signal of the Sea Peoples? moreover in K4 some Nuraghe samples display 10% blue (Iran NEO). The cave were such Nuraghe samples were taken was very disturbed and without cultural context.

If Sherden in Sardinia is likely with such data, Tershen in Etruria / Toscana will be next.
 
In the K4 there is also some steppe, is it real ?

Utilizzando Tapatalk
 
IceMummy said:
Thanks for sharing the map and your thoughts on substructure within Sardinia, Angela, that's really useful context. You present some really good interpretations of the findings.

Out of curiosity, have you ever worked "professionally" on Sardinian population history?
Click to expand...

Thanks for your kind words, IM. No, I never have. I've just been absorbed by this topic for about 10 years and Italian history and pre-history have been my passion for much longer.
 
berun said:
moreover in K4 some Nuraghe samples display 10% blue (Iran NEO)
Click to expand...

Where do you have that info from? They never report admixture proportions with individual labels (unfortunately). There are a few slightly "Eastern" individuals, but we don't know if it is them (they seem to be sorted by admixture fraction, not age).

Their PCA dots are also quite in one close place. Paired with really low F_ST between Nuragic and Neolithic Sardinians would imply demographic continuity (with possible immigration from genetically similar EEF sources).
 
archaeology suggest the coming of intrusive people between neolithic and nuragic...the monte claro culture and beaker/bonnanaro, but maybe they are "invisible" due to the fact that they were of the same stock of the native (EEF+Whg)

Utilizzando Tapatalk
 
five nuragics are j2b2-l283 (4 in this study and 1 in Fernandes et al), eastern/steppe lineage ?

Utilizzando Tapatalk
 
If the Romans were circa 20% steppe and considering that nuragics had none then modern Sardinians with about 10% steppe (Fernandes et al) are about 50% Italic/Romans [emoji848]
This could explain why the Sardinian languages is the most similar to Latin according with some sources
Utilizzando Tapatalk
 
Cato said:
If the Romans were circa 20% steppe and considering that nuragics had none then modern Sardinians with about 10% steppe (Fernandes et al) are about 50% Italic/Romans [emoji848]
This could explain why the Sardinian languages is the most similar to Latin according with some sources
Utilizzando Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Which sources?
 
Important updates. Quoting Trojet:

"The three J2b-L283's from the Nuragic culture, all dated to the Late Bronze Age, are as follows:


ORC003 is J-L283+ Z627+ YP157+ Z585-
ORC007 is J-L283+ YP157 NC Z585- Z615-
ORC008 is J-L283+ Z627+ YP157 NC Z615-


So ORC003 is surely J-YP157. The other two have no calls for J-YP157 clade, but most likely they belong there as well considering they are negative for Z585 and Z615. Not surprising here. Considering its distribution, J-YP157 subclade would've probably been my first choice to appear in ancient Sardinia:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-YP157/ "
 
Johane Derite said:
Important updates. Quoting Trojet:

"
Click to expand...

Also quoting Trojet:

"After the Alsace and the Norway samples which are upstream, and since we have no J-L283 in Sardinia pre Bronze Age, I honestly think they likely made it to Sardinia through continental Europe (maybe NW Balkans>Italy>Sardinia).


Also, as I posted elsewhere, recently an Armenian BigY splits the J-L283 node! He is negative for 7 L283 SNPs, among them Z622 and Z577. If we assume current J-L283 TMRCA at 5400 ybp, the Armenian should split at ~6000 ybp. This suggests that J-L283>Z622, where the two European branches stem from, migrated en masse from further east sometime between 6000-4400 ybp (J-Z597 TMRCA).


I think the Sardinian branches likely represent some MBA migration that contained various clades and that got isolated there. I guess investigating the origin of the Nuragic culture should give us a clue.."
 
We can now say pretty confidently that the Sherden Sea Peoples were probably same J-L283 as these Nuragic people. See image:


oPPKmR6.png
 
I also noticed some cultural similarities between the Nuragics and bronze age Armenian kurgan finds. See image:

tswqOPn.jpg
 
There is without a doubt a cultural connection between these artefacts. They are made in a similar way, and both depict the totemic animals, especially deers but also goats, at the front of the chariot/boat. These finds are a bit later than the 6000-4400 ybp window though, but point to a common mythology or belief system.


This is a bit more speculative but supports your migration route through continental Europe. See image:

e50288c96dfc183bf8c972af48bcf05b.jpg




This is a find from the Glasinac Culture in around the Illyrian coast.


The birds from the bronze age Glasinac cult chariot resemble very closely the totemic bird that is depicted atop the top left Nuragic boat statue, and the composition is also similar.


I think there is a cultural relation.


Glasinac I culture supposedly begins around 1800BC, around the same time as beginning of Nuragic, and is associated with the Autariatae tribe. It also fits the J-L283 found in the Illyrian coast in Mathieson paper.


A further remark. This type of Deer totem was also used as a chariot ornament by the Hittites. See image:

post001364.jpg
 
And the amazing Y-dna evidence for a mba-lba migration from europe into sardinia quoting Trojet:

"For the migration, we may have evidence in the J-Y21045 branch. It splits right at ~1900 BC: One subbranch defined by J-YP9 in Sardinia, while its "brother" J-Z38300 mostly in North Albania."


https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y21045/
 
Armenians seem to have a tradition of sacrificing Deers and Doves/Pigeons. This is very speculative but it could possibly be of the same religious substrate that we see in the deer and birds in those bronze figures.

"Throughout the day, doves and deer would be sacrificed in the name of the gods. Usually the horns of the deer were painted colorfully. There also was set up a big bonfire at nighttime where kids and young adults would try to jump over and around it to scare and drive away bad spirits. The celebrating people would bring their first set of harvest of the year to share with others.

Horseback riding races were done, as well as deer racing. The let go hundreds of doves into the air for good luck. Dancing, singing, intellectual and athletic competitive games were a big part of the celebrations, where competitors would try to impress the ones they admire in the audience."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navasard?oldformat=true
 
I really want to know the origin of these patterns, it looks kinda celtic, but i would love if the devs told where they got this idea from. I want a tattoo on my arm so i'm looking for some patterns on the internet and this one really caught my eye.
 
there are more bots in this forum than posters
 
It's a big holiday week here, buddy, and people have families and lives, unlike on some other sites, which are full of paid up members of various nationalist groups or total losers who do nothing but sit in their mothers' basements and obsess on this stuff.

If your only contribution is sniping a site that allows you to read and post I suggest you go back to lurking.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top