Population structure in Italy using ancient and modern samples

Did I say they were all eunuchs?

To deny that was a common occurrence is silly, however.

"White Eunuchs were Europeans from the Balkans or the Caucasus, either purchased in the slave markets or were boys taken from Christian families in the Balkans who were unable to pay the Jizya tax. They served the recruits at the Palace School and were from 1582 prohibited from entering the Harem."

"
The entire Devşirme system, where the children of Christian families in the Balkans unable to pay the onerous jizya tax were taken away, and, depending upon their sex, became either concubines, in the case of the girls, or, in the case of the boys, were conscripted into Janissary Corps or became eunuchs. The act (emasculation) made Ottoman rule much hated by Christians in the Balkans."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eunuch#Ottoman_Empire

In the case of Sicily, this is what Chiarelli has to say:

"Thus, this quarter seems to have been named after the white European eunuch slaves who were an important part of the Fatimid army and held high positions in bureaucratic offices of the government. Arabic sources generically referred to these white slave sas "saqalibah" regardless of their actual origins,which vary. They were mostly of Slavic origin, since the name originally meant Slav, that is, those people who inhabited central Europe and the Balkans. It was also used to designate any European originating outside the Frankish and Byzantine empires, although at times it was also used for southern Italians (especially Lombards) and some Sicilians."
P. 255-258

Many rose to great heights as leaders of armies and as civilian administrators.

Whether they were made eunuchs or not seems very much to depend on the place, the dynasty, the rulers etc.

Did you miss these tidbits when you were doing your research?

"In al-Andalus, Slavic eunuchs were so popular and widely distributed that they became synonymous with Saqāliba.[4]"

"Theophanes mentions that the Umayyad caliph Muawiyah I settled a whole army of 5,000 Slavic mercenaries in Syria in the 660s."

You should know by now that I don't make things up.
Eunuchs were common thing if that is your point,yes.And i do not deny that.
However Eunuch job was very much different from that of the either soldier or administrator.
You quoted for the Janissaries,they weren't castrated but "forbidden" to marry.Janissaries were initially forbidden from marriage or from having families. However, they were eventually able to lobby the Sultan to have this restriction lifted. Later on, they also successfully lobbied the Sultans to allow their sons to follow them into service.Do you think that Janissaries with such a influence that could even change Sultans and have even killed some of them,were not having any woman?
Eunuchs and Janissaries were not same,much less the administrators.
There were also black eunuchs for example that guarded the Ottoman harem.
 
Nordicist claims never fails to make you laugh. Nordic, elite, civilisation bringer Sumerians, Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Indians etc.
If they were this great why didn't they create an advanced civilisation in Eastern Europe or Scandinavia in their homeland and always had to immigrate to other places to become elites? Lol.
Anyways, we certainly need more data from Southern Europe and Near East.
 
Nordicist claims never fails to make you laugh. Nordic, elite, civilisation bringer Sumerians, Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Indians etc.
If they were this great why didn't they create an advanced civilisation in Eastern Europe or Scandinavia in their homeland and always had to immigrate to other places to become elites? Lol.

Explain this:

ivanov-art-1.jpg


vsevolod-ivanov-the-grandchildren-of-perun-exodus-of-the-hyperboreans-2006-e1272273045806.jpg
 
If
@Olympic Mons,
Indeed, and this from the man who did nothing but trash Eurogenes on his own site and everywhere else, and all the people at anthrogenica likewise, and me on this one? You are delusional.
If you indeed don't know that Polako/Davidski on other sites (as well as Generalissimo...now there's a dead give away) is Eurogenes, and that Sikeliot has had many "names", including Portuguese Princess on theapricity (which he ruined, not that I shed tears over it) and that many of the posters on anthrogenica are his "socks", then that might partly explain your inability to put two and two together. You just haven't been in this "hobby" for long enough, which is also why you think you were the first to entertain certain ideas.
Yes. You can't even get my name correct which is just the name of the biggest vulcano in the solar system. Yes really impressed by you.
Fact of the matter is I have 5 infractions from YOU for saying far less than you did to others and just did in fact now...and you don't even get that. Yes puting 2 and 2.
Far more interesting than you is this video that is making Davidski fuming from Jena MPI-SHH
https://youtu.be/a34TgLS9Tj8
I Wonder who was wandering those lands reported in the video between 8k and 7k years ago but the shulaveri. In fact some "entertain ideias" but others like me state precise hypothesis. That is the diference between "les uns et les autres".
https://shulaveri2bellbeaker.blogs.sapo.pt
 
Lol Markod those illustrations are great actually. Reminds me of the Silmarillion.
Btw i don't mean to talk down to any group. (at the end of the day Northerners managed to walk on the Moon!)
 
why do these discussions about southern european genetics always have to go in this direction even if there aren't any nordicists around who could have provoked it? it's not like there aren't any racist southern europeans who you could adress.
 
why do these discussions about southern european genetics always have to go in this direction even if there aren't any nordicists around who could have provoked it? it's not like there aren't any racist southern europeans who you could adress.

This is NOT a competition.of the Racists. (North, South, East, or West)
The original comment was made to point out the Irony.
We can all be proud of our Heritage without the need to badmouth someone else’s Heritage.
If we go back in time, at some point we are ALL Related.
Anybody who took a DNA test, and is still a racist is an idiot.
This thread is about Italian genetics, if anybody resents, doesn’t like, or is jealous of Italians, probably shouldn’t engage in the discussion.
 
Yes. You can't even get my name correct which is just the name of the biggest vulcano in the solar system. Yes really impressed by you.
Fact of the matter is I have 5 infractions from YOU for saying far less than you did to others and just did in fact now...and you don't even get that. Yes puting 2 and 2.
Far more interesting than you is this video that is making Davidski fuming from Jena MPI-SHH
https://youtu.be/a34TgLS9Tj8
I Wonder who was wandering those lands reported in the video between 8k and 7k years ago but the shulaveri. In fact some "entertain ideias" but others like me state precise hypothesis. That is the diference between "les uns et les autres".
https://shulaveri2bellbeaker.blogs.sapo.pt

Obsessive repetition of pet theories is not forbidden here, and nor are uninformed comments about genetics. However, you always take it further. That's why you've been banned everywhere, including at "Davidski's" site.

If you continue to cause disruption you'll continue to get infractions. Is that so difficult to understand?

Another one on ignore.
 
Eunuchs were common thing if that is your point,yes.And i do not deny that.
However Eunuch job was very much different from that of the either soldier or administrator.
You quoted for the Janissaries,they weren't castrated but "forbidden" to marry.Janissaries were initially forbidden from marriage or from having families. However, they were eventually able to lobby the Sultan to have this restriction lifted. Later on, they also successfully lobbied the Sultans to allow their sons to follow them into service.Do you think that Janissaries with such a influence that could even change Sultans and have even killed some of them,were not having any woman?
Eunuchs and Janissaries were not same,much less the administrators.
There were also black eunuchs for example that guarded the Ottoman harem.

Milan, go back and read the quote from Chiarelli again.
 
This is NOT a competition.of the Racists. (North, South, East, or West)
The original comment was made to point out the Irony.
We can all be proud of our Heritage without the need to badmouth someone else’s Heritage.
If we go back in time, at some point we are ALL Related.
Anybody who took a DNA test, and is still a racist is an idiot.
This thread is about Italian genetics, if anybody resents, doesn’t like, or is jealous of Italians, probably shouldn’t engage in the discussion.

of course but there was simply no reason to make this a nordicist thing. those people that were mentioned could as well be italians who claim the opposite it would make no difference. btw isn't beeing proud of your heritage nearly as senseless as badmouthing the one of others?
 
of course but there was simply no reason to make this a nordicist thing. those people that were mentioned could as well be italians it would make no difference. btw isn't beeing proud of your heritage nearly as senseless as badmouthing the one of others?

My Heritage defines who I am, and makes me appreciate the differences of customs and food of others, especially when I’m no longer living in the place of my origin. I also expose others to my culture and customs without realizing it.
I absolutely disagree with the notion of Pride of Heritage being classified as a form of racial superiority, or a racist emotional attribute.
 
Obsessive repetition of pet theories is not forbidden here, and nor are uninformed comments about genetics. However, you always take it further. That's why you've been banned everywhere, including at "Davidski's" site.
If you continue to cause disruption you'll continue to get infractions. Is that so difficult to understand?
Another one on ignore.
Unbelievable... You little, little woman.
At Least Davidski had the courage to ban me out right. But I think you are slightly diferent genre. It's worthwhile just to see your colors. Its worthwhile.


The truth is I Am on the verge of being proved right, and the only one to have been on the target with my shulaverian hypothesis. So keep trying to silence me here. I. Know, the princess type.
 
Truth being told... From 2015 when I was a demenered in every. Forum to 2018 when virtual all lads and investigative center around the planet are postulating the South Caucasus as the origin of Pie was a journey. PIE and L23... But we will get there.

From the beginning I have said that there would be a day when everybody "knew all along", or "had a felling" that it was the South Caucasus. That day is Coming too.
 
of course but there was simply no reason to make this a nordicist thing. those people that were mentioned could as well be italians who claim the opposite it would make no difference. btw isn't beeing proud of your heritage nearly as senseless as badmouthing the one of others?

Every nation has its differences in its people, even germans......bavarians are different from saxons, hessians etc
french have there differences as well, bretons from savoyards to gascons etc
even small nations like switzerland
its not nordicist ..........unless you feed the beast
 
BACK ON TOPIC, as Pax so wisely advised. I'm tempted to remove all these stupid posts, including my own.
 
This group isn't making their Italian samples available, although I'm sure academics can get them. However, they do thank the following:

"the National Alpini Association (Associazione Nazionale Alpini)for their help in collecting Italian DNA samples at the 86th 685 national assembly in Piacenza in 2013,686 in particular Bruno Plucani, Giangaspare Basile, Claudio Ferrari and the municipality of Piacenza687 (A.O., A.A.)."

Also, anyone have any idea about the following and how to interpret it? They say red is low for migration edges.
Al7LisG.png
 
This group isn't making their Italian samples available, although I'm sure academics can get them. However, they do thank the following:

"the National Alpini Association (Associazione Nazionale Alpini)for their help in collecting Italian DNA samples at the 86th 685 national assembly in Piacenza in 2013,686 in particular Bruno Plucani, Giangaspare Basile, Claudio Ferrari and the municipality of Piacenza687 (A.O., A.A.)."

Also, anyone have any idea about the following and how to interpret it? They say red is low for migration edges.
Al7LisG.png

Funny thing, Red is where we would expect Steppe and Iran related migrations path.
 
I kinda doubt they used Southern Greeks or Peloponnesians in this study bc there's not a lot of Bronze Age Anatolian in the Balkan or SEEurope samples. Some of those have zilch of that.
 
I kinda doubt they used Southern Greeks or Peloponnesians in this study bc there's not a lot of Bronze Age Anatolian in the Balkan or SEEurope samples. Some of those have zilch of that.

Maybe it’s because Anatolia Broze Age “was excluded and included in the set of Proximate sources”.
I’m having an hard time making sense of this paper. :(


...ratio of the residuals in the NNLS analysis (Materials and Methods, Supplementary materials) for all the Italian and European clusters when ABA was excluded and included in the set of Proximate sources; H) as in G), but excluding/ncluding SBA instead of ABA; J) Ancient Italian and other selected ancient samples projected on the components inferred from modern European individuals. Labels are placed at the centroid of the individuals belonging to the indicated clusters...
 

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