Prehistoric Danes to be genetically mapped

Balder said:
Agriculture in Denmark and Southern Sweden began during the transition from Ertebølle to Funnelbeaker.
http://www.uni-kiel.de/landscapes/allgemein/download/calendar/2012_Soerensen_Karg_2012_JAS_Meso-NeoTrans-SouthernScand.pdf

And Jutland was a case apart from the rest, they began with agriculture as well before.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link, Balder
I have not had time to read completely the survey - I shall read it soon -
If I understand well, agriculture began earlier in Jutland? I think it could be the result of megalithers (close to the famous Long Barrows people of Britain) who seem having had an influence upon the Funnelbeaker Culture supposed (this last one) being of early I-E colonization? What is striking is the coastal enough distribution of first 'neolithical' settlements in Denmark - a subsequant colonization (of more continental origin) take foot in Scandinvavia later?
 
MOESAN.

In fact the ‘neolithisation’ in Jutland come from the East. From the coastal regions of the peninsula, notably in Wangels and Rosenhof to 4700BC.


http://www.hgo.se/arkeologi/digital_litteratur/Fischer_A_2002_Food_for_Feasting.pdf
http://what-when-how.com/ancient-eu...urope-transition-to-agriculture-70004000-b-c/

iC4Ol1f.png


Mesolithic and Neolithic Subsistence in Denmark: New Stable Isotope Data
http://dro.dur.ac.uk/3768/1/3768.pdf
 
Balder said:
MOESAN.

In fact the ‘neolithisation’ in Jutland come from the East. From the coastal regions of the peninsula, notably in Wangels and Rosenhof to 4700BC.


http://www.hgo.se/arkeologi/digital_litteratur/Fischer_A_2002_Food_for_Feasting.pdf
http://what-when-how.com/ancient-eu...urope-transition-to-agriculture-70004000-b-c/

iC4Ol1f.png


Mesolithic and Neolithic Subsistence in Denmark: New Stable Isotope Data
http://dro.dur.ac.uk/3768/1/3768.pdf
Click to expand...
Great info Balder, so much to read into. Very interesting time in Western European history, and the articles youve provided have a wealth of information on this amazing transitional period, greatly appreciated.
 
at MOESAN

are you confusing Funnel Beaker with Bell Beaker?
Bell Beaker was a NON-Indo-European west to east [Chalcolithic] culture.

1. Ertebolle and 2. Funnel Beaker are Pre-Indo-European [Neolithic/Chalcolithic] cultures
they were not influenced by the long barrow of Britain (poss. the other way around) but by the Neolithic and Chalcolithic cultures of the Danube and Carpathians.
Funnel Beaker was succeeded by the first/earliest Indo-European wave (Corded Ware Culture)
http://www.pnas.org/content/105/47/18226.long
 
at Balder

great informative post.

Have you heard about this recent Neolithic find (Gök4) in Sweden ? [Apr. 2012]
http://www.nature.com/news/ancient-...om-the-mediterranean-1.10541?nc=1337092258562

Genetically Gök4 is closest to "allele sharing" with East Mediterraneans (Cyprus and Greece) and overall very similar to Ötzi.
http://dienekes.blogspot.de/2012/04/ancient-dna-from-neolithic-sweden.html
http://dienekes.blogspot.de/2012/04/first-look-at-dna-of-neolithic.html

your sources also show a southern (Danubian/Carpathian) impact for Ertebolle and Funnel Beaker

Pierre M. Vermeersch - Contributions to the Mesolithic in Europe (1990)
In addition to pottery, ornaments made from the teeth of extinct animals and the "shoe-last" axes of amphibolite, originating in an Danubian context in Silesia, Poland, appear in an Ertebolle context in Denmark (Fischer 1982, Vang Petersen 1990)

Something the map (A. Fischer) that you posted clearly shows with Danubian settlements on the lower Oder and the Danubian shaft-hole axes scattered over Zealand, Funen and East Jutland;

Sarunas Milisauskas - European Prehistory (2002)
In the Carpathian Mountains, south of the Funnel Beaker culture area, the beginnings of copper metallurgy occur during the Middle Neolithic period. The small quantities of copper artifacts that turn up in Funnel Beaker sites indicate that some sort of exchange network linked them to the Carpathian region.

This new find Gök4 (east mediterranean) corresponds with Busby et al. 2011; Neolithic migrations being from "centres of renewed expansion"
 
Nobody1 said:
at Balder

great informative post.

Have you heard about this recent Neolithic find (Gök4) in Sweden ? [Apr. 2012]
http://www.nature.com/news/ancient-...om-the-mediterranean-1.10541?nc=1337092258562

Genetically Gök4 is closest to "allele sharing" with East Mediterraneans (Cyprus and Greece) and overall very similar to Ötzi.
http://dienekes.blogspot.de/2012/04/ancient-dna-from-neolithic-sweden.html
http://dienekes.blogspot.de/2012/04/first-look-at-dna-of-neolithic.html
Click to expand...

There are differing opinions regarding Dieneke's claims and east mediterranean origin of Gok4. We once discussed Gok4 in an older thread:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/27519-Neolithic-farmers-Southwest-Europeans-or-West-Asians

Other discussed issues like gedrosia etc. are a bit outdated though.
 
Nobody1 said:
at Balder

great informative post.

Have you heard about this recent Neolithic find (Gök4) in Sweden ? [Apr. 2012]
http://www.nature.com/news/ancient-...om-the-mediterranean-1.10541?nc=1337092258562

Genetically Gök4 is closest to "allele sharing" with East Mediterraneans (Cyprus and Greece) and overall very similar to Ötzi.
http://dienekes.blogspot.de/2012/04/ancient-dna-from-neolithic-sweden.html
http://dienekes.blogspot.de/2012/04/first-look-at-dna-of-neolithic.html

your sources also show a southern (Danubian/Carpathian) impact for Ertebolle and Funnel Beaker

Pierre M. Vermeersch - Contributions to the Mesolithic in Europe (1990)
In addition to pottery, ornaments made from the teeth of extinct animals and the "shoe-last" axes of amphibolite, originating in an Danubian context in Silesia, Poland, appear in an Ertebolle context in Denmark (Fischer 1982, Vang Petersen 1990)

Something the map (A. Fischer) that you posted clearly shows with Danubian settlements on the lower Oder and the Danubian shaft-hole axes scattered over Zealand, Funen and East Jutland;

Sarunas Milisauskas - European Prehistory (2002)
In the Carpathian Mountains, south of the Funnel Beaker culture area, the beginnings of copper metallurgy occur during the Middle Neolithic period. The small quantities of copper artifacts that turn up in Funnel Beaker sites indicate that some sort of exchange network linked them to the Carpathian region.

This new find Gök4 (east mediterranean) corresponds with Busby et al. 2011; Neolithic migrations being from "centres of renewed expansion"
Click to expand...
In my opinion, it was mostly focused on a combination of "mediterranean " and "natives" who shaped the 'Neolithic culture' in Scandinavia. A bit far fetched. It is also important to note that when the wave of immigrants reaches Scandinavia, the 'Greek' 'Cyprus' element was already rather diluted. The majority of the roots of the judging of all migrant farmers to Scandinavia seems rather here this from Central Europe. From the Danubian culture. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danubian_culture

The fact that it is a large time gap between the Linear Pottery (Danubian) culture's expansion into northern Germany and agricultural encroachment to the North, do not seem interested in the author of the study.

Whether it is, the most German data we have to work with, leaving big question marks regarding Scandinavia, especially when the only Neolithic data we have is from the island of Gotland, and a few from the mainland who really represent the early Neolithic in Scandinavia.

The media sits and frantically uses Sykes name "Eve's seven daughters" makes it all the more festive.

Future studies will show.
 
Someones consider the Funnelbeaker or Trichterbecher of N-Germany of 'neolithic' profile, as of chiefly I-E origin (early Steppes people intrusion)- but it would be more sensible to consider it as a mix where the megalithers (akin to "Long Barrows" bearers) played a big role in transmission of agriculture on the coasts; the physical contribution of first genuine 'Danubians' = initial LBK would be slight enough for I think: these first colonists remained a long time endogame and were recognizable in Normandy, Parisian Bassin, Elsass and other today Germany places as in central Europe, but (I lack solid ground here) i did not hear of a same situation in Northern germany where Corded people found seemingly directly megalithers - the artefacts of danubian origin there could have been send by I-E Corded acculturated in Central Danubian Europe???
the compositon of Göka autosomals, if reliable, shows me an heavy component of Western Mediterraneans and some SouthwestAsians mixed with some Atlantic or N-W-European componant, very suitable for the "Long Barrows" people where the gracilized cromagnoid + W mediterranean (Chancelade accretions?) mean seem lightly influenced by more eastern new Mediterranean types (the elite?) - mybe yet some mixing with northern Europeans HGs? just guesses, I confess - but all that seems coherent -
 
Northern Germany and Scandinavia, have the highest level of lactose tolerance in the world today. On another hand, Southern Europe, such as Greece, have high levels of lactose intolerance. That's why possibly the neothilision of the region was more linked to expansion of the Danubian culture, lifestyle and Danubian migrants than anything else. As the Danish map that I posted.

Danubians were heavy into cattle-farming from the (slightly later) get-go. With cows, you easily end up with so much milk that drinking it is the most straightforward way of using it other than making butter and cheese for storage.

The different circles of color on this map of Europe show where lactose tolerance—the ability for older children and adults to drink milk without it causing illness or discomfort—developed in a particular area. The red area in the center shows.
a1922_2648.18.10.jpg


Absence of the lactase-persistence-associated allele in early Neolithic Europeans
http://www.pnas.org/content/104/10/3736.full
 
I was not clear enough, it seems: the anthropological term "danubian" recalls a phenotype of supposed mediterranean origin ("mediterranean" is a very unprecise term), subdolichocephallic, high skulled, frontally foreheaded, prognatous enough, very gracile, with some clavicule-dorsal peculiarity - this type, very common firstable in greek Neolithic and in some place of South-Anatolia, was linked to the first danubian (culturel term here!!!) expansion in central Europe - it appears that agriculturors did not mix immediately with hunters-gatherers in central Europe - this type was found in some places of France, very far from its basis, and in N-Italy too, and Germany etc... the lactase tolerance could be acquired by selection, not predicting the other autosomals distribution in populations - at last neolithic, the central Europe was a mix of autochtonous populations with the genuine first "danubians" and with some steppic peoples intrusions - and this map you give us above (thanks for that) seems to me very 'naive' in its forms: a so beautiful "ovale" can not be representative of the true distribution of this gene in the mountainous districts of Europe! it is just a proxi - no offense to you that search and find some stuff to go farther.
what seems curious to me too is the rarity of this special gene among populations that breed caprins and ovins -
have a good evening!
 
5 years i cant wait that long
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

This thread has been viewed 23076 times.

Back
Top