Questions on my Y-DNA Haplogroup T

Hello Sile,

I was wondering if you knew any info about L446 (or even CTS8862 and its equivalent SNPs) in Spain? Recent research continues to suggest a Spanish origin of my paternal line. I want to know as much as possible about the distribution of L446 and its subclades before I can start making predictions and continuing research on where in Spain my line originates from.
 
KFundora said:
Hello Sile,

I was wondering if you knew any info about L446 (or even CTS8862 and its equivalent SNPs) in Spain? Recent research continues to suggest a Spanish origin of my paternal line. I want to know as much as possible about the distribution of L446 and its subclades before I can start making predictions and continuing research on where in Spain my line originates from.
Click to expand...

I am noted as T-L446* ...............* means no more subclades............until these are sorted out into branches or not
CTS1774, CTS3767, CTS8862, CTS9984, CTS11984 are downstream of L446. Listed 21 July 2014.

I suspect CTS8862 and CTS11984 will just merge into L446 and the others will be more viable as branches

I think I already noted to you that Galicia and catalonia are you better spanish options for L446.....................I will keep looking.

Chris Morley sent me a private letter to do some special testing , but I cannot afford it at the moment..............I will try to find it and see if you can be my replacemnet
 
Sile said:
I am noted as T-L446* ...............* means no more subclades............until these are sorted out into branches or not
CTS1774, CTS3767, CTS8862, CTS9984, CTS11984 are downstream of L446. Listed 21 July 2014.

I suspect CTS8862 and CTS11984 will just merge into L446 and the others will be more viable as branches

I think I already noted to you that Galicia and catalonia are you better spanish options for L446.....................I will keep looking.

Chris Morley sent me a private letter to do some special testing , but I cannot afford it at the moment..............I will try to find it and see if you can be my replacemnet
Click to expand...

I see, this makes sense... and no no don't worry, you should do it because it was offered to you.
 
The new tree has the term "provisional" for the marker L490 ...............this is the only marker I have that links me from Basal T to M70 (T1a)
 
KFundora said:
A bit of a sidetrack, the previous statement of yours regarding to the presence of L446 in Galicia, Asturias, and Cantabria, especially the Cantabria area, may have some connection to the Franco-Cantabrian refugium but that's more Paleolithic.... never mind
Click to expand...

Please read this. I have explained that the presence of haplogroup T in Galicia, Asturias, and Cantabria is combined with the presence of haplogroups J1, E-M34 and E-M81, mtDNA L, M1, U3 and U6, and higher autosomal frequencies of Caucasian and Red Sea admixtures. This is either due to the settlement of north-west Iberia by Neolithic farmers from Southwest Asia via North Africa, or the expansion of south-west Iberian populations some time between 1000 BCE (from the time the Phoenicians settled the south-west) and 500 CE (end of the Roman period).
 
Maciamo said:
Please read this. I have explained that the presence of haplogroup T in Galicia, Asturias, and Cantabria is combined with the presence of haplogroups J1, E-M34 and E-M81, mtDNA L, M1, U3 and U6, and higher autosomal frequencies of Caucasian and Red Sea admixtures. This is either due to the settlement of north-west Iberia by Neolithic farmers from Southwest Asia via North Africa, or the expansion of south-west Iberian populations some time between 1000 BCE (from the time the Phoenicians settled the south-west) and 500 CE (end of the Roman period).
Click to expand...

thanks Maciano

but IMO this is basically the majority of the L162 branch ( P77), you will rarely find L131 branch in the med. especially western med.

Your K=20 paper ( laz ) seems more approporaite for T in regard sto kundora and myself. ...........you state it as
13) The Caucaso-Perso-Gedrosian admixture might be a composite of the West Asian branch of macro-haplogroup K, comprising mostly the original autosomal genes of carriers of Y-haplogroups L and T. Over time, L and T appear to have been replaced by the paternal lineages of successive invaders,

This scenario fits my haplotree in post #140. Because L298 is the LT marker (K1) and its origins are stated as being in the Sind valley ( close to gedrosia ), with L ( k1a) and T ( k1b) heading west through persia and east to india ( the T in india is only on the east side , basically one branch, the same branch that went to Oman centuries later)

regards
 
@kundora

Strange thing with ysearch.......if you load the numbers manually I get extra matches

I only load the first 15 numbers
 
Maciamo said:
Please read this. I have explained that the presence of haplogroup T in Galicia, Asturias, and Cantabria is combined with the presence of haplogroups J1, E-M34 and E-M81, mtDNA L, M1, U3 and U6, and higher autosomal frequencies of Caucasian and Red Sea admixtures. This is either due to the settlement of north-west Iberia by Neolithic farmers from Southwest Asia via North Africa, or the expansion of south-west Iberian populations some time between 1000 BCE (from the time the Phoenicians settled the south-west) and 500 CE (end of the Roman period).
Click to expand...

Thank you, Maciamo. This clarifies a lot of my predictions and assumptions.
 
Sile said:
@kundora

Strange thing with ysearch.......if you load the numbers manually I get extra matches

I only load the first 15 numbers
Click to expand...

That's weird...
 
KFundora said:
That's weird...
Click to expand...

yes it is and sorry for miss spelling your name in other threads.

via this input system, I found another zero GD with me ....a french/german from Alsace

Do you have a person called crump in your Ftdna ?............he also appeared in ysearch for me as well, I don't know who he is
 
@fundora

Have you completly finalised your maybe "bergamo" connection?.........you know the spanish where involved a lot in lombardy in the 16th century.

you could end up something like me, ...my grandmother is from Merlengo, this name was originally Marling, same name as a town in Swabia. History states it was created by swabian and alemanni people in the years 1000s as they belong to the mercenary's families who followed the nobility , ie, Scaliger, Ezzelini or Carrara families who originate on the other side of the alps
 
Sile said:
@fundora

Have you completly finalised your maybe "bergamo" connection?.........you know the spanish where involved a lot in lombardy in the 16th century.

you could end up something like me, ...my grandmother is from Merlengo, this name was originally Marling, same name as a town in Swabia. History states it was created by swabian and alemanni people in the years 1000s as they belong to the mercenary's families who followed the nobility , ie, Scaliger, Ezzelini or Carrara families who originate on the other side of the alps
Click to expand...

Despite my best efforts, I cannot finalize any theory regarding my surname because there is no historical or official information regarding it whatsoever. I have done intensive research regarding all routes and I cannot pinpoint the best. My closest Y-STR matches are with an Azorean (surname Lemas, from FTDNA), a Brazilian (Martins, from SMGF), and two Italians (Lippi, from SMGF, & Russo, from Ysearch). This was done using a mixture of the total 37 STRs I tested and the 23 slow-mutating ones within that set. Other matches I see from Ysearch using the slow STRs are:

GD = 1
  • Russo (Naples, Italy ... but I read earlier in this thread that you said he was a Greek Jew?)
GD = 2
  • Carvalho (Brazil ... but reading his extra info, the original surname was Pinto)
  • Hill (USA)
  • Atwell (USA)
  • Frush (Germany)
  • Jones (?)
  • Schales (Germany)
  • Frush (USA)
  • Owens (USA)
  • Mitchell (USA)
  • Dalessio (Selerno, Italy ... isn't this the individual you mentioned earlier that his surname indicates ancestry from another part of Italy?)
GD = 3
  • Hill (USA)
  • Powell (USA) x 2
  • Powell (UK)
  • Sizemore (UK)
  • McKee (?)
  • Milligan (USA)
  • Welch (Ireland)
  • Fakes (?)

The issue is that sometimes these matches arise from random STR values that are similar to mine or the same but we don't actually share a "recent" paternal ancestry. Also, a large amount of individuals in these databases are Americans or from the British Isles, skewing the results somewhat (i.e. thinking you are closely related to an Englishmen when in reality you aren't). With the slow-mutating STRs, yes I can see that they might be close in relation somewhat because those values don't change as fast.
 
Sile said:
yes it is and sorry for miss spelling your name in other threads.

via this input system, I found another zero GD with me ....a french/german from Alsace

Do you have a person called crump in your Ftdna ?............he also appeared in ysearch for me as well, I don't know who he is
Click to expand...

Oh no its fine and interesting... and yes he appeared on my 12 Y-STR match list on FTDNA at a GD of 0.
 
Wait, correction: the surname Fundora appears historically in Italy (as an uncommon misspelling of the Lucchesi Fondora), fundora is a Medieval Latin word originating in Italy (meaning "grounds", as a plural of fundus), and there are places in Naples called Fundora but these could just be pure coincidence... I cannot make any definitive connections.

Fundora is found in several places in Spain, especially Cataluña and the Canaries, but recent migration from Galicia first focused my attention on a Galician-Portuguese origin (where the poor economic conditions of Galicia explaining its high frequency in the industrious province of Barcelona, for instance) but I continually see Fundora as a possible shortened form of Fundadora ("female founder, foundress" in Spanish) which might throw off any paternal modes of connection.
 
KFundora said:
Wait, correction: the surname Fundora appears historically in Italy (as an uncommon misspelling of the Lucchesi Fondora), fundora is a Medieval Latin word originating in Italy (meaning "grounds", as a plural of fundus), and there are places in Naples called Fundora but these could just be pure coincidence... I cannot make any definitive connections.

Fundora is found in several places in Spain, especially Cataluña and the Canaries, but recent migration from Galicia first focused my attention on a Galician-Portuguese origin (where the poor economic conditions of Galicia explaining its high frequency in the industrious province of Barcelona, for instance) but I continually see Fundora as a possible shortened form of Fundadora ("female founder, foundress" in Spanish) which might throw off any paternal modes of connection.
Click to expand...

I had a quick look at Fondra BDM's in Bergamo ( but it will take time )


I did find this
http://en.geneanet.org/profil/luisafundora/Luisa-Fundora
maybe your relative


and this
https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=+surname:fundora~
 
My closest Y-STR matches , a Brazilian (Martins, from SMGF), and two Italians (Lippi, East Lombady from SMGF, & Belser Belluno, from Ysearch). T
  • Hill (USA) .......a hessian with a name change .....I have 3 Hill people...0 GD
  • Jones (?).....0 GD
  • Schales (Germany) a hessian...0 GD
  • Dalessio (Selerno, Italy ... isn't this the individual you mentioned earlier that his surname indicates ancestry from another part of Italy?) ...........Dalessio news is ...migrated from Naples to USA in 1882 at the age of 3 ( I have copy of manifest of ship) , settled previous in Salerno and the parents migrated from the Molise region to Salerno for work before child was born.............the only other Dalessio that went to the USA was 30 years before from Utrecht Netherlands. .....sometimes 2 GD and sometimes 3 GD
 
Sile said:
I had a quick look at Fondra BDM's in Bergamo ( but it will take time )


I did find this
http://en.geneanet.org/profil/luisafundora/Luisa-Fundora
maybe your relative


and this
https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=+surname:fundora~
Click to expand...

Luisa Fundora is a Cuban living in France. My grandfather had contacted her a few years back, she isn't related to us. And I have searched before on FamilySearch, all Fundoras archived here are Cuban-Americans or Cuban migrants to other places (i.e. Brazil).
 
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