Race and IQ

[Gitte]

Yes, there is, in a way. If you look at a map of country's average IQ, you see the IQ's are much, much lower in African countries.
View attachment 8917
But is it because of their race itself? Absolutely not. IQ has a lot to do with genetics, but also with environment and upbringing. A lot of African people are very poor and didn't attent many years of school, and are therefore less likely to solve a complex puzzle you've learned...In school. In East-Asia, it's higher. But there, it's the same story: Chona and Particularly Japan are in some areas very advanced countries who really value learning. Children really have to do good in school, learn, and a lot of things you learn in school will cause a higher IQ. Overall, the richer the country and the more important/better education, the higher the IQ is, based on that map. But if you would give someone from Congo, someone from England and someone from Japan the exact same education and environment I believe the differences wouldn't be big.

 

[Bergin]

In Eastern Europe (Siolo) most of Jews lived in villages, and I'm sure they owned the land too. Though I'm not 100% sure how it was structured. I'm sure though that before WW2 they owned land and properties/buildings in Poland.

Sorry just saw this comment.

The impossibility to own land is almost a given for more than a millenia in Europe. Yes, after the industrial era things had changed, land owning was not such a big privilege.

I am sure you can find some detailed literature about it.
Spend 2 mins and found this:
http://www.aitzhayim.org/jewish-life-in-medieval-europe/


Common Themes


Katz noted a number of themes that were common to the Jews in this era. First, Jews were overwhelmingly city dwellers. This had serious implications. In a world where 95% of the people were farmers, Jews were an anomaly. Second was the status of Jews in a feudal society. In such a society, everything was based on ownership of land. In theory, the king owned the land and gave out parcels. Everything was organized down to the level of the serfs and everyone’s identity, except for that of clerics, came through their relationship to the land. In these circumstances, Jews who were not allowed to own land were a strange commodity and no one knew how to deal with them.


It took about 500 years, but a relationship was finally worked out. The agreement was that Jews belonged to the King and were called Serfs of the Chamber. Therefore, the King could do what he wanted with them. He could take their property, could kick them out, and could decide if Jews could have slaves. The King had all the rights, the Jews had only those which they managed to bargain for with the King.

 

[DuPidh]

In terms of the Ashkenazim I think an important factor may be the repeated attempts to exterminate them. When there are evils like the butchery during the Crusades, or the pogroms, etc., the strong, the intelligent, the creative, the resourceful are more likely to survive. The irony is that if this is true, all of these attempts by envious outsiders would only have made them more "fit".

@Minty,
Actually, modern "business" arithmetic, accounting, including double entry book-keeping, modern banking including letters of credit, monetary exchange, etc. weren't invented by Jews; they were invented by Tuscans, and adapted early by Lombards. As with Jews, this led them to be much hated in certain countries. There were "pogroms" of a sort in England against "Lombard" money lenders, for example.
https://books.google.com/books?id=N... against Lombards in medieval England&f=false

@LeBroc
So, why Tuscans, not only in business and banking, but art and on and on?

I think some of this is being in the right place at the right time as well as having the intellectual wherewithal to take advantage of it.

The Low Countries had a Renaissance later on, and in the modern era there is England, for example, or Germany later on.

Jewish themselves believe that their Higher than average IQ has to do with their marriages customs. They marry close relatives like first cousin I think. Other societies discourage such marriages on fear of birth defects. At least this was the view of one Jew I talked about. Could be any truth here who knows. I don't know if any other society practices such marriages.

 

[Jovialis]

I was tested to have an IQ of 144 back in 1992, when I was seven-years old. Knowing this while growing up, gave me a lot of confidence, and self-esteem. However, it didn't reflect on my academic career, until college. As a child, and teenager, I lacked discipline, and was probably hanging out with the wrong crowd. But after working, and maturing for a few years; I was able to make the Dean's list every semester. Maintaining a job for several years gave me the discipline to work hard, and accomplish goals.

 

[Bergin]

Jewish themselves believe that their Higher than average IQ has to do with their marriages customs. They marry close relatives like first cousin I think. Other societies discourage such marriages on fear of birth defects. At least this was the view of one Jew I talked about. Could be any truth here who knows. I don't know if any other society practices such marriages.

I live in Israel (not jewish). Haven't noticed any of those thingies, so at least on my experience, it is just a legend.

Most people would find their partners in the military time or university time.
The orthodox are a much more closed community, but even there I have never heard such a thing (arranged marriages seem to be well accepted though).

Recently a friend of mine, she is Vietnamese/Swiss, just got engaged with a religious guy.
His family made some problems but at the end they accepted her.

 

[LeBrok]

I live in Israel (not jewish). Haven't noticed any of those thingies, so at least on my experience, it is just a legend.

Most people would find their partners in the military time or university time.
The orthodox are a much more closed community, but even there I have never heard such a thing (arranged marriages seem to be well accepted though).

Recently a friend of mine, she is Vietnamese/Swiss, just got engaged with a religious guy.
His family made some problems but at the end they accepted her.

I'm not in Israel but my observations are the same. DuPidh has alway unique perception of the world, from my perspective.

 

[Angela]

Jewish themselves believe that their Higher than average IQ has to do with their marriages customs. They marry close relatives like first cousin I think. Other societies discourage such marriages on fear of birth defects. At least this was the view of one Jew I talked about. Could be any truth here who knows. I don't know if any other society practices such marriages.

One hundred years ago most people in Europe had arranged marriages, and that includes the Jews. In fact, the "matchmaker" is an iconic figure in eastern European Jewry. However, I never heard that they routinely married first cousins. It is allowed under Jewish law, however. Even uncle/niece marriage is permitted.

Today, the only American Jews whose marriages are sometimes arranged are the ultra-Orthodox.

 

[DuPidh]

One hundred years ago most people in Europe had arranged marriages, and that includes the Jews. In fact, the "matchmaker" is an iconic figure in eastern European Jewry. However, I never heard that they routinely married first cousins. It is allowed under Jewish law, however. Even uncle/niece marriage is permitted.

Today, the only American Jews whose marriages are sometimes arranged are the ultra-Orthodox.

The rich Jews married mostly within their kin to guard the money. If you add this to their tradition of marring first cousins then majority of them did marry within. Some Jews I have talked with believe that this tradition could have led to some genetic advantage. It can't be explained differently that only 10 million Jews in Usa produce 30% of university professors, or 30% of the richest. Keep in mind USA has ethnic groups like Germans who are very industrious and still they perform a bit above average compared to other groups. The Jews I have spoken with were small business people originating from Poland. But in genetics point of view if you have one smart person in the family marring within the family has the potential to keep the genes than marring outside the group where the genes get diluted.









5

 

[DuPidh]

I live in Israel (not jewish). Haven't noticed any of those thingies, so at least on my experience, it is just a legend.

Most people would find their partners in the military time or university time.
The orthodox are a much more closed community, but even there I have never heard such a thing (arranged marriages seem to be well accepted though).

Recently a friend of mine, she is Vietnamese/Swiss, just got engaged with a religious guy.
His family made some problems but at the end they accepted her.

Israel has very few real Jews. Most of Israelis are Russian country folks who faked their papers to emigrate in a richer country. All they had to do is change the last name to Cohen. The real Jews are either in New York or California. So that's why what you are observing is true. But real Jews don't do it.

 

[DuPidh]

I'm not in Israel but my observations are the same. DuPidh has alway unique perception of the world, from my perspective.

Real Jews never want to live in Israel. Israel is mostly Moroccans who faked their passports and put on a yarmulke, to escape the Islamic oppression. Lately the Ethiopians have arrived in numbers. If you add to this numbers the Russians then very few Jews are in Israel. That's why is difficult to spot this common behavior if you are in Israel . Its different in America. They have their own clubs, and before you enter there you have to show you memorize the Torah with no major mistakes. They know each other and support each other. Of course they marry each other. If you read their marriage adds they emphasize that they are looking for another Jew.

 

[Angela]

Israel has very few real Jews. Most of Israelis are Russian country folks who faked their papers to emigrate in a richer country. All they had to do is change the last name to Cohen. The real Jews are either in New York or California. So that's why what you are observing is true. But real Jews don't do it.

Here we go again with unsubstantiated claims. Please provide evidence for the following or stop posting it:

Percentage of population of Israel stemming from recent Russian emigration (and percentages of all other groups as well).

Haredi or ultra-orthodox Jews, the ones who absolutely don't marry out, number about 1.3 million people worldwide, and 700,000 of them live in Israel. Many ultra-orthodox American Jews migrate there precisely because it is so much easier to live an Orthodox life style there. Don't worry about the competition though; they don't study secular subjects, only Jewish law.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haredi_Judaism

The statistics don't bear out your claims about Jewish people in the U.S. at all. Jews, like all other Americans, are now marrying out to what some among them consider to be an alarming degree.

The Pew Research institute did a massive study on them in 2013.

"Overall, the intermarriage rate is at 58 percent, up from 43 percent in 1990 and 17 percent in 1970. Among non-Orthodox Jews, the intermarriage rate is 71 percent."
http://www.jta.org/2013/10/01/news-opinion/united-states/pew-survey-u-s-jewish-intermarriage-rate-rises-to-58-percent

So, again, you're completely wrong.

In times when marriages were arranged, most parents did it conserve their fortunes or to add to them. There's nothing specifically Jewish about it.

 

[Bergin]

Israel has very few real Jews. Most of Israelis are Russian country folks who faked their papers to emigrate in a richer country. All they had to do is change the last name to Cohen. The real Jews are either in New York or California. So that's why what you are observing is true. But real Jews don't do it.

Most of the people I know are descendants of holocaust survivors. Some of them might probably be quite offended by your comments.

The russians came just a decade ago, a good amount still clusters together in neighborhoods (there is where we buy pork and other stuff, christian arabs too are open on saturdays).
Sadly enough, to get married in Israel you need to be jewish, as the rabbi has to decree your wedding. So a lot of the russians face this problem, some have to travel abroad to marry, or face the strict rules of orthodoxy (standard israelis have to do nothing).

Anyway, don't go so easy on generalizations. Pretty sure you can find some jewish people in the forum that can give you some more info than me.

 

[DuPidh]

Here we go again with unsubstantiated claims. Please provide evidence for the following or stop posting itercentage of population of Israel stemming from recent Russian emigration (and percentages of all other groups as well). Haredi or ultra-orthodox Jews, the ones who absolutely don't marry out, number about 1.3 million people worldwide, and 700,000 of them live in Israel. Many ultra-orthodox American Jews migrate there precisely because it is so much easier to live an Orthodox life style there. Don't worry about the competition though; they don't study secular subjects, only Jewish law.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haredi_JudaismThe statistics don't bear out your claims about Jewish people in the U.S. at all. Jews, like all other Americans, are now marrying out to what some among them consider to be an alarming degree.The Pew Research institute did a massive study on them in 2013."Overall, the intermarriage rate is at 58 percent, up from 43 percent in 1990 and 17 percent in 1970. Among non-Orthodox Jews, the intermarriage rate is 71 percent."http://www.jta.org/2013/10/01/news-opinion/united-states/pew-survey-u-s-jewish-intermarriage-rate-rises-to-58-percentSo, again, you're completely wrong.In times when marriages were arranged, most parents did it conserve their fortunes or to add to them. There's nothing specifically Jewish about it.

Don't believe the polls. The polls also showed that Clinton was beating Trump by 12 points. I don't have any official study about the matter or sources to direct you. But this is the popular view in New York. If you think these views have no merit , what can I say?

 

[DuPidh]

I was tested to have an IQ of 144 back in 1992, when I was seven-years old. Knowing this while growing up, gave me a lot of confidence, and self-esteem. However, it didn't reflect on my academic career, until college. As a child, and teenager, I lacked discipline, and was probably hanging out with the wrong crowd. But after working, and maturing for a few years; I was able to make the Dean's list every semester. Maintaining a job for several years gave me the discipline to work hard, and accomplish goals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XO77h5qHihM

This is a boy in Albania, age 5, who can add quickly 3 figures numbers, subtract, do other math, also able to find what day was in any date of any year. They believed that the boy was gifted so they send him in an official IQ test place in order that he placed in more advanced classes. He scored 120. I wander yours is almost 30 points higher. How did you find out about your IQ?

 

[Jovialis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XO77h5qHihM

This is a boy in Albania, age 5, who can add quickly 3 figures numbers, subtract, do other math, also able to find what day was in any date of any year. They believed that the boy was gifted so they send him in an official IQ test place in order that he placed in more advanced classes. He scored 120. I wander yours is almost 30 points higher. How did you find out about your IQ?

I was evaluated by a professional psychologist at a hospital. I was taken there, because I wasn't doing well in school at the time. But the reason for that was that I wasn't actually doing work or studying. I found myself to be very bored with school, and I hated sitting in a class room for hours. I didn't like many of my peers, and the teachers seemed to be very high-strung, and malcontent. Nevertheless, I was actually very interested in learning about stuff that I liked, on my own. Ultimately, I'm highly auto-didactic; I'm my own best teacher. For example, a couple years back, I taught myself how to code fairly well, from tinkering around. IQ measures your ability to problem solve. I was always fascinated by history, and science. I learned to draw well, from an early age. The doctor that evaluated me suggested to my parents, that I should be taken to a school for gifted children. However, that wasn't an option for me.

In regards to the Albanian boy you're talking about, it sounds more like Savant syndrome. Nevertheless, 120 is a higher than average IQ

 

[DuPidh]

I was tested to have an IQ of 144 back in 1992, when I was seven-years old. Knowing this while growing up, gave me a lot of confidence, and self-esteem. However, it didn't reflect on my academic career, until college. As a child, and teenager, I lacked discipline, and was probably hanging out with the wrong crowd. But after working, and maturing for a few years; I was able to make the Dean's list every semester. Maintaining a job for several years gave me the discipline to work hard, and accomplish goals.

This is a video of the boy taking the test. You would not understand the language but visually you can see the test taker is showing him pictures to identify patterns. Is this the same test you took.? The test is administered by some US organisation and has licences a person in the video to administer it. Your score is way higher. You must have e PHd.

 

[DuPidh]

I was tested to have an IQ of 144 back in 1992, when I was seven-years old. Knowing this while growing up, gave me a lot of confidence, and self-esteem. However, it didn't reflect on my academic career, until college. As a child, and teenager, I lacked discipline, and was probably hanging out with the wrong crowd. But after working, and maturing for a few years; I was able to make the Dean's list every semester. Maintaining a job for several years gave me the discipline to work hard, and accomplish goals.

This is a video of the boy taking the test. You would not understand the language but visually you can see the test taker is showing him pictures to identify patterns. Is this the same test you took.? The test is administered by some US organisation and has licences a person in the video to administer it. Your score is way higher. You must have e PHd.
https://youtu.be/28KilwizX6Q

sorry this is the video

 

[DuPidh]

I was evaluated by a professional psychologist at a hospital. I was taken there, because I wasn't doing well in school at the time. But the reason for that was that I wasn't actually doing work or studying. I found myself to be very bored with school, and I hated sitting in a class room for hours. I didn't like many of my peers, and the teachers seemed to be very high-strung, and malcontent. Nevertheless, I was actually very interested in learning about stuff that I liked, on my own. Ultimately, I'm highly auto-didactic; I'm my own best teacher. For example, a couple years back, I taught myself how to code fairly well, from tinkering around. IQ measures your ability to problem solve. I was always fascinated by history, and science. I learned to draw well, from an early age. The doctor that evaluated me suggested to my parents, that I should be taken to a school for gifted children. However, that wasn't an option for me.

In regards to the Albanian boy you're talking about, it sounds more like Savant syndrome. Nevertheless, 120 is a higher than average IQ

The test taker I showed you on the video classified the boy as intellectually superior. Is IQ point system now the same like back then or different?

 

[Angela]

Don't believe the polls. The polls also showed that Clinton was beating Trump by 12 points. I don't have any official study about the matter or sources to direct you. But this is the popular view in New York. If you think these views have no merit , what can I say?

Nonsense. I've lived in New York for decades and probably a third to a half of my friends are Jews. People in polls about their ethnicity aren't going to lie, and those results perfectly tie in with what I see around me. Stop spreading dis-information.

 

[Jovialis]

This is a video of the boy taking the test. You would not understand the language but visually you can see the test taker is showing him pictures to identify patterns. Is this the same test you took.? The test is administered by some US organisation and has licences a person in the video to administer it. Your score is way higher. You must have e PHd.

The method they used to test me was different from the visual patterns. From what I can recall, the psychologist asked me many questions. Though I do believe there were some visual associations to identifying patterns. This was 25 years ago, I believe the picture test was developed more recently to make it more universally applicable to the test taker, and to avoid cultural bias.