Rare European haplogroup of remote Western African origin: L3f1b6

The problem with TMRCA is that it does not necessarily imply when that specific clade of a haplogroup arrived in the region. It may simply be the case that it arrived centuries or even millennia before, but all the other lineages derived from it ultimately died out and all the extant lineages derive from just one branch of several that had once existed. If that happens, which is not so unlikely in the very long term, then the TMRCA will not, in fact, match the time when the haplogroup arrived in the new location and started to expand independently.

As said before
Time of most recent common ancestor
Time of most common ancestor is 2700BC to the one posted earlier. Dont know what else to tell you. They more than likely migrated more recently.

This is the information we have. The actual data.

TMRCA is 2700
Which would be 700 BC.
Or more recent.
 
Hmm the TMRCA changed on yfull I think. Not sure.
Its more distant now.
 
As said before
Time of most recent common ancestor
Time of most common ancestor is 2700BC to the one posted earlier. Dont know what else to tell you. They more than likely migrated more recently.

This is the information we have. The actual data.

TMRCA is 2700
Which would be 700 BC.
Or more recent.

So? I'm elaborating the subject further, but if you want only the "actual data", the the thread should already be closed. lol

2700 BC is 2700 BEFORE CHRIST, so ~4.7 thousand years ago. So you're probably mixing up BC with YBP/Kya.
 
Hmm the TMRCA changed on yfull I think. Not sure.
Its more distant now.

Yes i saw 7100 ky
Thats 5100bc
So it might even be earlier than bronze age
In iberia could be neolithic entrance
Across gibraltar who knows:unsure:

P.s
The truth might be somewhere in the middle
Chl:)
 
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Thank you moderator for the answer. (Unfortunately I don't have permissions to quote or it fails every time I try).


I fail to understand all what that study claims, it would be wonderful if someone wiser than me would review it and share its opinions.

Here I try to quote two paragraphs from the conclussions:


"In this study, we found indisputable evidence of the presence of a mitochondrial sequence of sub-Saharan African origin in a 3600 years-old sample, COV20126, from southern Spain. Considering the absence of any closely related mitogenomes in prehistoric Europe, it is difficult to explain this finding by a process other than cross-Mediterranean gene flow before the BA.["


"Although COV20216's nuclear genome showed no obvious traces of African admixture, several other samples from Iberia did; in particular, relatively late samples (from the Middle Neolithic and Chalcolithic) collected along the Mediterranean area and on the Spanish plateau. The increased, significant similarity to sub-Saharan African samples shown by these individuals is not matched, as far as we could test, elsewhere in Europe (figure 3 and electronic supplementary material, table S4)."




Otherwise, the original work about L3f1b6 by A.F. Pardinas proposed a much earlier (Mesolithic) arrival of this lineage to Iberia:
"The L3f variant found in Asturias seems to constitute an Iberian-specific haplogroup, distantly related to lineages in Northern Africa and with a deep ancestry in Western Africa. Coalescent algorithms estimate the minimum arrival time as 8,000 years ago, and a possible route through the Gibraltar Strait."
 
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Just in case some one in interested, Ian Logan included one more L3f1b6 sample (it's from Oviedo = Asturias region in NW Spain):

As I am not allowed to include pics nor links, I paste all the samples he considers to be L3f1b6. In total there are 6 from Asturias: a mountainous area in NW Spain, two from Leon (one is mine) a province just South of Asturias, one from Tenerife (Canary Islands) and three from Mexico.

It seems to be a NW Spain branch (so far)

1. JQ703621(Spain: Leon)Behar 07-APR-2012
2. KF011502(Spain: Oviedo) Pardinas 31-DEC-2013
3. KF011503(Spain: Oviedo) Pardinas 31-DEC-2013
4. KJ959229(Spain: Oviedo) Pardinas 28-AUG-2014
5. KJ959230(Spain: Oviedo) Pardinas 28-AUG-2014
6. MF621073(Canarian: Tenerife)Cabrera 21-FEB-2018
7. MN703760(Spain: Leon) FTDNA 02-DEC-2019
8. MZ714017(Spain: Oviedo) FTDNA 05-SEP-2021
9. MZ920576(Spain: Oviedo) Silva 22-SEP-2021
..
.. 23andMe ('R' - Mexico)
.. 23andMe ('A' - Mexico)
.. 23andMe ('V' - Mexico)
 
is L3f1b6 anything related to L3e5?
 
Recent paper about sub-Saharan mitochondrial haplogroups outside Africa seems to confirm the arrival of most of them into Iberia in Early Holocene period across the Straight of Gibraltar (Eupedia does not allow me to post links): "Phylogeography of Sub-Saharan Mitochondrial Lineages Outside Africa Highlights the Roles of the Holocene Climate Changes and the Atlantic Slave Trade".

Some extracts from the article:

"The migration scans indicate two main peaks of migration, one in the early Holocene around the Holocene Climate Optimum (~7.4 ka–10 ka ), and another in the present or close to present (~0 ka). We see an absence of movements carrying sub-Saharan lineages between those periods. As expected, for North and South America, we see only recent episodes of gene flow. "

"For Europe, our founder analyses suggest that there are more African mtDNA lineages related to the prehistoric than the historical period (~60:40). Note, however, that most of the lineages here considered in the European analysis are from Iberia"

"the higher percentage of sub-Saharan lineages arriving in Europe during this period, mostly from West Africa (63%) is likely from migrants that first crossed the Sahel belt into North Africa and moved from there into Europe via the Strait of Gibraltar"

"Previous inferences regarding the presence of sub-Saharan mitogenomes in Europe have highlighted movements from North Africa, following the Ice Age and with the onset of the Holocene in Africa ~8–9 kya [24 ], including gene flow specifically to Iberia [50]"
 
Recent paper about sub-Saharan mitochondrial haplogroups outside Africa seems to confirm the arrival of most of them into Iberia in Early Holocene period across the Straight of Gibraltar (Eupedia does not allow me to post links): "Phylogeography of Sub-Saharan Mitochondrial Lineages Outside Africa Highlights the Roles of the Holocene Climate Changes and the Atlantic Slave Trade".

Some extracts from the article:

"The migration scans indicate two main peaks of migration, one in the early Holocene around the Holocene Climate Optimum (~7.4 ka–10 ka ), and another in the present or close to present (~0 ka). We see an absence of movements carrying sub-Saharan lineages between those periods. As expected, for North and South America, we see only recent episodes of gene flow. "

"For Europe, our founder analyses suggest that there are more African mtDNA lineages related to the prehistoric than the historical period (~60:40). Note, however, that most of the lineages here considered in the European analysis are from Iberia"

"the higher percentage of sub-Saharan lineages arriving in Europe during this period, mostly from West Africa (63%) is likely from migrants that first crossed the Sahel belt into North Africa and moved from there into Europe via the Strait of Gibraltar"

"Previous inferences regarding the presence of sub-Saharan mitogenomes in Europe have highlighted movements from North Africa, following the Ice Age and with the onset of the Holocene in Africa ~8–9 kya [24 ], including gene flow specifically to Iberia [50]"


here is the link to the paper you talk about

https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/23/16/9219





p.s
by the way
recentley i saw this
there is a bronze age 1640-1420 bc individual from sicily motya who fall on L3b1a5:cool-v:

https://i.imgur.com/Pl54DSS.png

https://i.imgur.com/6MTKOgu.png


source:

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgene.2022.945227/abstract
 
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Thank you for the info (I'm not allowed to quote your message), very interesting to see ancient L3 samples outside Africa.

By the way, YFull has create the L3f1b-a9 subranch with only two samples (both of them of Italian origin, one from Genoa and other from Naples).
 
Thank you for the info (I'm not allowed to quote your message), very interesting to see ancient L3 samples outside Africa.

By the way, YFull has create the L3f1b-a9 subranch with only two samples (both of them of Italian origin, one from Genoa and other from Naples).


indeed
here is another 1 this time from early bronze age euboea island greece who belonged to mtdna L3d1b1;)

https://i.imgur.com/7sM50PS.png

https://i.imgur.com/K4TBprt.png

https://i.imgur.com/GEfdUWX.png


source paper here :


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867421003706


table s1:

is this mik08 dude
 
Thanks again kingjohn

I just checked at YFull (too fastly) for some of the L3 haplogroups from the recent paper I tried to share a few days ago and found at least 4 fully Iberian L branches: L1b1a6a, L1b1a6e, L1b1a6f, and L3d1b3a2a
 
So? I'm elaborating the subject further, but if you want only the "actual data", the the thread should already be closed. lol

2700 BC is 2700 BEFORE CHRIST, so ~4.7 thousand years ago. So you're probably mixing up BC with YBP/Kya.
it was a typo in the paragraph.
 
YFull has recently labelled as L3f1b7 a new European branch at L3f1b tree. It seems to very very old (10600 ybp, TMRCA 1550 ybp). I'm sorry I'm not allowed to insert the link.

Meanwhile L3f1b6 seems to increase its number of samples of Iberian origin both at YFull and at Ian Logan's website.
 
YFull has modified L3f1b7, it has only two samples and claims it was formed 10900 ybp with a 1650 ybp TMRCA
 

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