Recent reconstruction of Jomon woman

[Angela]

Spencer Wells recently tweeted this. She certainly doesn't look East Asian to me. Not really Southeast Asian either. I'm struggling to classify it.

[/IMG]

 

[bicicleur 2]

those studying Jomon skulls used to classify them as Caucasian, so they probably didn't look East Asian

 

[IronSide]

There is ANE admixture in East asians. Would having higher amounts in east asians hypothetically make someone appear more caucasian ? assuming that it's not originally *Mongoloid*
What's the origin of caucasoid features anyway ?

 

[Angela]

Maybe she looks closest to an Amerindian, and the resemblance is partly based on ANE:

 

[bicicleur 2]

I don't know, did the Jomon have ANE?
Were they Mongoloïd?
They were sundadont which is a southern characteristic

I think the Mongoloïd was introduced in the south, and in Japan only some 2-3 ka, later than the Jomon period.
Till ca 4 ka southeast Asia was populated by negrito HG tribes. They didn't look like modern southeast Asians at all.
Ca 4 ka those negrito HG tribes were almost completely whiped out by incoming Chinese rice farmers, the ancestors of the modern southeast Asians.
Jomon were more related to those negritos than to Chinese rice farmers.
But negritos are small, Jomon were taller, and negritos are very dark skinned.

 

[Moi-même]

I read an article about the subject a few months ago...

The Jomon period of the Japanese Archipelago, characterized by cord-marked ‘jomon’ potteries, has yielded abundant human skeletal remains. However, the genetic origins of the Jomon people and their relationships with modern populations have not been clarified. We determined a total of 115 million base pair nuclear genome sequences from two Jomon individuals (male and female each) from the Sanganji Shell Mound (dated 3000 years before present) with the Jomon-characteristic mitochondrial DNA haplogroup N9b, and compared these nuclear genome sequences with those of worldwide populations. We found that the Jomon population lineage is best considered to have diverged before diversification of present-day East Eurasian populations, with no evidence of gene flow events between the Jomon and other continental populations. This suggests that the Sanganji Jomon people descended from an early phase of population dispersals in East Asia. We also estimated that the modern mainland Japanese inherited <20% of Jomon peoples’ genomes. Our findings, based on the first analysis of Jomon nuclear genome sequence data, firmly demonstrate that the modern mainland Japanese resulted from genetic admixture of the indigenous Jomon people and later migrants.

https://www.nature.com/articles/jhg2016110

The conclusion is Jomon are different from anything modern, even if Japanese people are closest to them. In details, Ainu are the closest, although they are not pure Jomon. Then it's people from Okinawa, then "central islands" Japanese.

[FONT=&quot]Phylogenetic analysis I. TreeMix tree with gene flows. A comparison of Sanganji Jomon, 1000 Genomes Project worldwide populations, Papuan, Karitiana, Mal’ta MA1, Ust’-Ishim and Denisovan based on 43 310 all sites. Denisovan was used as the outgroup, and three gene flow events were estimated. The tree was drawn by using MEGA6.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]38[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Red colored values (only those higher than 90% are shown) are bootstrap probabilities (%) for their adjacent internal branch. Arrows were manually added to this tree, and colors of migration weight (ratio of gene flow) follow TreeMix outputs. Values inside arrows are the ratio of gene flow. Bootstrap probabilities (%) of the gene flow from Sanganji Jomon to JPT, Karitiana to the root of European and Mal’ta MA1, and LWK to European, estimated out of 1000 bootstrap replicate TreeMix outputs, are 42%, 86% and 0.4%, respectively.[/FONT]

The sample are only 3000 years old, it would be interesting to do the same with a 10,000 years old Jomon sample.

 

[MOESAN]

It seems to me some ancestral traits were common on a huge area and some of them could be stayed common to some 'europoids' and some archeo types of S-E Asia, when in the middle some new mutations wiped these old traits out in E-Asia where took place the 'mongoloid' specialisation (incomplete, as every sort of raciation among Humans) - I am not sure but it seems I heard Jomon had as a whole an East Asian auDNA making what does not exclude they have not shared all the bones shapes innovations of the majority of East Asian -
the 'mongoloid' innovations surely spred from a central zone of dense enough peopling when the peripheric regions did not share all of these innovations; the vague ressemblance of peripheric remote ou weakly peopled regions types (Islands, North Siberia, etc...) is not identity of rather recent ancestors but rather a lack of the most of innovations - and some ancient features can be kept in some parts of genomes of far settled pops when their total autosomals can have seriously drifted away-

 

[MOESAN]

I read an article about the subject a few months ago...



https://www.nature.com/articles/jhg2016110

The conclusion is Jomon are different from anything modern, even if Japanese people are closest to them. In details, Ainu are the closest, although they are not pure Jomon. Then it's people from Okinawa, then "central islands" Japanese.



The sample are only 3000 years old, it would be interesting to do the same with a 10,000 years old Jomon sample.

I did not pay attention to your citation above - here under a scheme of a study, maybe the one your extract is taken from?

L'arbre phylogénétique construit à partir de certaines populations et basé sur les matrices de distance génétique, montre que les Amérindiens ont divergé des populations Est Asiatiques après la population Jōmon:

Ce résultat est cohérent avec l'analyse avec le logiciel TreeMix.

Les auteurs ont ensuite utilisé la statistique D qui confirme que la population Jōmon a plus d'affinité génétique avec les Japonais qu'avec les autres populations.

Tous ces résultats supportent l'hypothèse qui considère que les Japonais actuels sont les descendants des populations de chasseurs-cueilleurs Jōmon mélangées avec des populations Néolithiques en provenance du continent Est Asiatique durant la période Yayoi.

La distinction de la population Aïnou avec la population Jōmon vient probablement du fait que les ancêtre des Aïnous se sont mélangés avec d'autres populations en provenance du continent Asiatique. La population candidate est celle du peuple Okhotsk qui habitait la côte Nord-Est de la région d'Hokkaido entre les 5ème et 13ème siècles. [h=3]Ajouter un commentaire[/h]

 

[MOESAN]

I keep on with my 'plagia'

 

[Ygorcs]

Spencer Wells recently tweeted this. She certainly doesn't look East Asian to me. Not really Southeast Asian either. I'm struggling to classify it.

[/IMG]

She could be Brazilian IMO, especially of the caboclo kind, that is, a mixture of Native American and European. Maybe the Jomon had affinities with West Eurasians and East Eurasians, too, or then they were a bit Amerindian-like? I will assume that these looks had something to do ANE or a population close to ANE, because there is something European and also something Amerindian about her, and ANE contributed to both populations.

We shouldn't look for answers in the Ainu. According to a Japanese man that seemed quite well informed to me, the Ainu are not indigenous either, though certainly more ancient in Japan than the Yayoi that were the most decisive component in the formation of the present Nipponic population. The bulk of the Jomon was genetically replaced by those two foreign waves and is only partially present in the Ainu.

 

[Tomenable]

Partially Australoid.

 

[MOESAN]

Partially Australoid.

No contradiction because Jomon had archaic features very more than other East Asians ; even if the total auDNA has shifted away, these features keep them less far than the most of other pops;

 

[MOESAN]

No contradiction because Jomon had archaic features very more than other East Asians ; even if the total auDNA has shifted away, these features keep them less far than the most of other pops;

I want to say: less far from other archaic pops and so in some way more "central" than the most evolved among modern pops -