Russian jets buzz U.S. destroyer in the Baltic Sea.

[Angela]

I don't want to derail the thread sorry.Thank you for taking the time to express your perspective/insight. Looking at the old footage of Detroit is amazing. A once vibrant beautiful city.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxAIg_Hv7gU
Modern day looks something out of a zombie apocalypse movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2IScU_q_zY

The South Bronx, with which I'm much more familiar, has had much the same history:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AVzkTd9R44

A police precinct there was nick-named Fort Apache.

The South Bronx was subsequently totally rebuilt at the cost of billions of dollars of tax payer money, but has since started to deteriorate again, in my opinion.

Then, New Detroits are being created all the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IheTWmwIbDw

You could go through inner city New Orleans, or Atlanta, and on and on and find the same.

The major cost is not tax dollars to keep rebuilding the infrastructure, however, or the costs of police and fire departments and prisons: it's the cost to human lives within these communities themselves. You have no concept how many of these young men go though the criminal justice system, how many children's lives are permanently blighted. Believe me, if I thought throwing more money at poverty programs would change things, I'd vote for increased spending happily.

Anyway, my long post on the history of isolationism in the U.S.(#31) was only slightly more on topic, and too long as well, but it's hard to summarize the history of American foreign policy in a few sentences, and without knowing if there's a common background of knowledge, it's difficult to debate any particular doctrine or treaty or military action. Anyway, I would say that in terms of foreign policy I'm definitely right of center, and my positions are indeed close to those of William F. Buckley. He was a formative influence on me. In fact, my political views are pretty close to his in a number of areas, although not on social issues, among them gay rights, as just one example.

 

[ElHorsto]

If Iraq didn't had WMDs with what did they gas the people in Halabja?

Wasn't that in 1988, long before the Iraq war?

My origin is next to the Syrian/Iraqi border. And we have people from the region who swear that before the Iraqi war started hundreds of trucks crossed the Syrian border from Iraq obviously bringing something there.

Wasn't that much later, 10 years after Saddam was dead? I really don't know that's why I'm asking.

 

[bicicleur 2]

Anyway, my long post on the history of isolationism in the U.S.(#31) was only slightly more on topic, and too long as well, but it's hard to summarize the history of American foreign policy in a few sentences, and without knowing if there's a common background of knowledge, it's difficult to debate any particular doctrine or treaty or military action. Anyway, I would say that in terms of foreign policy I'm definitely right of center, and my positions are indeed close to those of William F. Buckley. He was a formative influence on me. In fact, my political views are pretty close to his in a number of areas, although not on social issues, among them gay rights, as just one example.

so what about Erdogan then? in my opinion he is a bigger lunatic than Putin
yet Merkel is licking his arse and Kerry gives him his utmost respect
he has a strategic position and he enjoys the games he can play because of that
when will this guy be put in place?

 

[Yetos]

so what about Erdogan then? in my opinion he is a bigger lunatic than Putin
yet Merkel is licking his arse and Kerry gives him his utmost respect
he has a strategic position and he enjoys the games he can play because of that
when will this guy be put in place?

and not only Merkel,
Obama also,
He realise time ago what 'Sultan' he is and he is pushing him to provoke Russia,

and beacause his only fear is Greece and Kurds, West input imbeciles to Greek goverment via crisis and loans and corporations like Goldman Sachs and Bring NATO to gather refuggees when the immigration problem is almost zero.

2016 will be the year of Italy and Bulgaria, the high traffic road is already there,
I wonder will they send NATO to save sinking boat survivors?

 

[ElHorsto]

He realise time ago what 'Sultan' he is and he is pushing him to provoke Russia,

Which is yet another similarity between Merkel and the 'Sultan'.

 

[Yetos]

and still I believe that both USA and Russia are dying

and they create such things to change the real problems they have,
for example Putin and Panama papperes
USA and Washington state, which has less rights than other states and maybe start a race for autonomy

and EU is not ready yet, either as soul either as mind, to create the third pole,

 

[Yetos]

We're obviously suffering from a mutual lack of comprehension, because I don't understand how a Canadian, in particular, could ask such a question. I do understand that Europeans might get their information from leftist rags and the internet, and so I make some allowances, but a Canadian? Surely they teach a little bit of American history? We certainly learn a bit about yours. Well, I take some of that back, almost half of America itself has drunk that particular Kool-Aid. That's what comes of letting the education system be hijacked by left wing 60's radicals starting from the universities on down, and not countering the half baked ideas promoted by Hollywood.

American isolationism: foundations set during the presidencies of Washington and Adams.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIt...mXAKGcfRxKZf9CvITeOoSq8k1HKalOp_ly_s8a8vSBMoG

The only wars fought were with the British, first the Revolutionary War, and then the War of 1812, the latter because of the impressment of U.S. sailors and the attacks against U.S. merchant ships, and which included British troops attacking and burning down parts of Washington, D.C.

In case you think I don't acknowledge the darker aspects of American history, a type of history shared by Canada, by the way, and Australia, and New Zealand in taking over land inhabited by Native Americans:

Manifest Destiny:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIt...mXAKGcfRxKZf9CvITeOoSq8k1HKalOp_ly_s8a8vSBMoG

The vast majority of the land was acquired by purchase from other European powers. The wars were against the Native Americans and the Mexican-American War over the southwestern states and California. I don't think you'd find a single American who thinks the Native Americans were treated fairly.

The Monroe Doctrine: in some ways a restatement of American isolationism versus Europe and in some ways the assumption of a protectionist policy toward the other countries in the Western Hemisphere. Of course, it also protected the economic interests of the U.S.The closest analogy would be the protectionism (and exploitation) of Eastern Europe and the Balkans by the Russian Empire, made more palatable in the Russian case by claims of brotherhood of blood and language.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjt...bmsJKvuAelMk7SuEkVqc44RcQ6Tu4htRO8v1Mqr90ZrOO

The Roosevelt Corollary: imperialism in the Western Hemisphere
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0HEMUoVrh4

On current attitudes toward isolationism versus world engagement. More Republicans (the more conservative Americans) are in favor of isolationism than Democrats:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMqCrSYQxns

As to why America fought in the first and second world wars, I won't go into detail since I assume everyone knows that the U.S. came into World War I late, and only after the American public was inflamed by reports of German atrocities, and the fact that the Germans sank American ships. I also think the special relationship between the U.S. and Britain had a great deal to do with it. Even that late entrance resulted in huge protests by those who vehemently didn't want to get involved. Unfortunately, our President at the time, a liberal Democrat, Woodrow Wilson, was hell bent on saving the world.

The disillusionment that followed thrust the country into its most extreme period of isolationism. Most Americans were totally against getting involved in a second European war, as was exemplified by the "America First" movement. As I said above, had the Japanese not bombed Pearl Harbor, I highly doubt that even the wily Franklin Roosevelt could have gotten a declaration of war through the U.S. Congress.

On the Cold War:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpYCplyBknI

The Policy of Containment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vdXLkWUjrU

This is a very intelligent, informed, and polite discussion, densely packed with content, between William Buckley, Christopher Hitchens, and that touches upon imperialism, the Cold War, and the special relationship between Britain and the U.S. One pithy take away: Stalin pushed America into the Cold War and into an acceptance of Churchill's push to have America take over Britain's role in the world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZMVKwmeprY

The 60s and the left:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JKFSWl4f4o

All you really need to know about Christopher Hitchens is revealed there: he was a Trotskyite and was in Cuban as a supporter of Castro and Che Guevara, although he here tries to distance himself with some unsuccessful fancy footwork. It was people like him, lionizing murderers and autocrats, who helped to turn me against the left. It's one thing to support dictators as the best choice among worse players, it's another thing to admire them and want to adopt their systems.

Angela
All the above are good for you, cause you are an USA citizen,

but what about me who I am not?

Henry Kissinger?
Briezinsky?
Albright who bomb with uranium Balkans
what about Argentina Chile Portugal Spain etc etc
what about the dictators of CIA?
what about Arab spring?

and I ask what the difference among all presidents speeches and all Queen's speeches for british empire? none,
cause the policy is always the same, colonial

and the most simple and easy question
USA always support the 'minorities' of other countries, and call supressors the leader and goverment,
now what If I call Obama a supressor, a dictator against the many ameridian/indians tribes?
what if I call him dictator for the Washington state unright treaty?
will I have right?

 

[Angela]

In my opinion, Merkel, and also Kerry, although it's a less immediate problem for the U.S., want Turkey to stop the flow of refugees, and are also trying to negotiate for a return of refugees to the Near East through Turkey. You don't have to like the people with whom you have to negotiate.

That won't stop the flow from North Africa into Italy by way of the Mediterranean, since they embark from North Africa, mainly Libya, last I heard.There should be patrols in the Mediterranean to interdict these ships, and the passengers should then be taken back to those same ports in North Africa. However, because of the policies of the so called "Arab Spring", which are the fault of both the Obama administration and the European countries, there's really no government with whom to negotiate, so I don't know how the hell that could be done.

If a way was found, why should NATO, much of whose budget is borne by the U.S., foot the bill? What does the EU exist for, precisely? Or does the rest of Europe just propose to let Italy deal with it alone and put up a wall protecting northern Europe?

I don't understand how so many Europeans can be so blind to the problems caused by the increasing Russian sphere of influence in the Near East, and not see what a catastrophe it would be for Europe if Russia had large bases in Turkey. Russia already controls a lot of the energy flow into Europe. If they also have control of the energy sources in the Near East they can make client states of the other European countries. What would be the option? How can your factories, your economies, your cities operate, without energy? The answer is that they can't.

How can it not be clear how different the situation is with regard to the U.S.-European relationship? Of course there is economic competition, but that's healthy for everyone. The more prosperous Europe is, the more of America's goods it can buy, but also the more goods Europe itself can sell. It's a win/win. That's what free trade is all about.

That's why the U.S. is trying to use Turkey to neutralize the Russian presence to some extent. Of course, if the Obama administration hadn't tried to totally disengage from the Middle East, there would have been no power vacuum for Russia to fill. If he hadn't pulled out all the troops from Iraq, ISIS could have been destroyed long ago, and there would have been no refugee tsunami into Europe. Whether the decision to go into Iraq was wise or not, it's like if you drop a porcelain vase in a nice shop: if you break it, you own it. If that means keeping a few thousand troops and bases there, that's what you do. We've had tens of thousands of troops along the DMZ between North and South Korea since the 1950s. What do people think would happen to South Korea if they were removed?

If he had even armed the Kurds, it might have made some difference. Now, he can't, because since the power vacuum exists, and all he can do is try to keep Erdogan out of the clutches of Putin, he can't antagonize Erdogan by arming the Kurds properly. Meanwhile, if his advisers think they can trust Erdogan, they're bigger fools even than I think. Use him to get the worst of the refugees back to the Near East, by all means, but don't trust him; he'll double cross the west in a minute.

@Yetos, from my perspective your view of world affairs in general, of the nature of free markets and of American policy is totally incorrect, and that has nothing to do with whether I am now an American citizen as well as an Italian citizen. It has to do with a political and economic philosophy which I have developed over the years through a lot of reading, but also through a lot of experience both in the U.S. and Italy.

My post wasn't meant to excuse every action ever undertaken by the U.S. government over the centuries, just as I would never attempt to excuse every action ever taken by the various Italian governments. It was meant to rebut the statement that the U.S. is some war mongering country out to invade and subjugate countries.

I can only say again that the U.S. didn't seek out involvement in either World War I or World War II. As for the Cold War, that was created by Joseph Stalin and the politburo, although Russia has sought hegemony in its part of the world for centuries. Communism was a pernicious, dangerous, and destructive doctrine, almost as destructive as fascism, which had to be resisted and contained as much as possible. Churchill was right about that, at least. No one else could do it except the U.S. A rebuilt and prosperous Europe would not fall into the Communist camp. There's no doubt that it would also create a great market for European goods.

I don't think you understand the nature of "colonialism". Colonialism is when a prosperous, advanced nation settles groups of its own people on land belonging to another country, or through military might dominates another country, extracting raw materials at below market prices, and reserves the right to manufacture goods and then dump them into the subjugated countries. A good example of the latter is the British Raj. An example of the former might indeed be the appropriation of the land of the indigenous peoples by the Americans, Canadians, Australians, and virtually all the Latin Americans. Germany planned to make colonies of both Poland and Russia; worse, they planned to exterminate most of the Slavs altogether. Another example is the establishment of Greek city states in the first millennium BC, or the conquests and building of cities by Alexander the Great.

This has nothing to do with the relationship between the U.S. and Europe following the Second World War. The U.S. didn't loot your raw materials, as Russia did in the east, or France did in North Africa and Africa, or the Netherlands did in Indonesia, or the Germans in Africa, or the Italians in East Africa, and on and on. Yes, as I've said, a prosperous Europe means more markets for U.S. goods, but the U.S. helped you build new factories and new infrastructure so that you could also become producers of goods, and prosperous again, more prosperous than you'd ever been. Do you have any idea how much the U.S. imports from Europe? This isn't colonialism, it's free trade.

As for Chile, Nicaragua, etc., if you really knew who Castro was, what he did, what the people suffered through him, maybe you would understand what the U.S. feared in Chile. It also wouldn't hurt to re-read the facts about the Cuban Missile crisis.

I realize that capitalism, free markets are not admired in Europe. I know from personal experience that the teaching of economics in Europe is almost always done from a Marxist perspective. There is an alternative point of view. See:
http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2007/08/capitalism_and_democracy_take

From my perspective, free markets and individual rights and representative government go hand in hand.

Anyway, in a prior post you were complaining about American cultural hegemony. I'm afraid that's the way of the world, Yetos. Railing against it does no good. When Greeks were top dog, and especially because of Alexander, copies of Greek cities, temples, etc. dotted the world. Yes, some other groups feared it, so much so, in the case of the Jews, for example, that they rebelled against the Seleucid Empire. The same happened under Rome. People adopted the Latin language, and architecture, and on and on. Later, during the Renaissance, Italian forms of literature, of art, of architecture, spread across Europe, to be succeeded by a passion for all things French, from language to fashion, to architecture again, only to be supplanted by a wave of English and a whole way of living which fittingly enough came to be called Victorianism. It's how things are...

 

[Yetos]

Russian influence at Africa and middle East is not increasing, plz
it declines, it is decreasing,
they lost Kantafi and Libya and Santam who bought Scud missiles,
and also lost Egypt an ex 3rd world country, and now they lose most of Syrria,

so the myth that USA is using Turkey to stabilize area against Russia is a myth, a BIG MYTH,
simply they create a new ISLAM defender, Erdogan,
since Kantafi and Sandam are dead, (I am not defending them) and Assant lost security at his country, and Jordania king is a peacefull one, afraid to lose his sauvereign,
THEY CREATE a new SULTAN, DEFENDER OF FAITH,
and I ask USA that is giving to much at minority problems, why show much tolerance to Turks and not Kurds?
who is minority? Erdogan or Kurds? so come on, they bargain above and under the table, they made him the petrol 'dava' of today,

@ Angela
I ask if i call Obama and all USA president genociders and supressors of human rights due to amerindian/indian policies even today, will I have right?

about free world? let me laugh, the world stoped to be free after late 50's early 60's cause the only free world was at West, behind iron curtain, I do not even dare to discuss it. neverland there
HOW USA SUPPORTED FREEDOM WHEN ESTABLISHED DICTATORS FROM ARGENTINA TO GREECE AND INDOCHINA?

a coin, a currency, is a mark of a state sauvereign, so when I move capitals from USA to china and Indonesia, or Greece to Swiss etc then I am a traitor,
all those capitalists who speak about free world at USA and generally WEST are traitors, they give the sauvereign of USA citizens and habbitants to foreign just to earn,
and they call it GLOBALIZATION,
come on, there are USAers who starve and can not afford school for children, but they are eager to work, but no job, cause their taxes for a better future fled as capitals abroad,

Angela i know the story about the 'gulf of the pigs'
I HAVE DEAD RELATIVES DUE TO CIVIL WAR, AND BELIEVE ME, Pigs Gulf is nothing infront civil war,
so I can support Russia cause they always force as to revolt against Turkey, and then forgot us,
But I can not support USA and NATO also, cause they create troubles in order to be 'welcomed'

there is a story that my father told about Mussolini and Italians,
when Italians surrender to Germans, they brought some soldiers at local park as prisoners, for about 3-6 months
no soap, little food, etc, prisoners of war,
one of my ungles who fought them as officer at Epirus frontier, every Sunday he wore his army coat and stand against them at the fence as an Olympian and sing a song against Mussolini, a winner, showing them how proud he was for defeating them,and here is Greece, no matter Greece was under German occupation, and as he said he shoot a few at battle,
when church finished about 11 at morning, he was asking all woman to make bread and feed them,
my grand mother once/twice a weak made bread ( that time they made 8-20 kilos per family per weak, and each bread was 2-3 kilos) and gave it to my father who was fast enough, with a bar of soap and a (pork fat made) candlle for beards, (razor were expensive and rare, so they burn the beard with a candle, they clean and wash it, and then with hands apply soft semi-warmed fat/wax to skin for few hours to avoid iritation, chamomile water or jasmin water was ideal under the wax)
my father a twelve years old boy always went and throw above fence the bread, and Italians for thanks they gave him buttons,
one day a German soldier see him and hit him with gun's handlle and he fade, he carried that mark all his life, but the same soldier who hit him, took him under fresh water and gave him a cube of sugar!!! (wow that time was something indeed)
as you see emotions change, ideas change, dogma does not, my ungle who fought them, was also willing to feed them, cause he see 'una raca, una faca' to them, and he could be at their position also,
I wonder if he was a pure dogmatic capitalist/banking thinking like the ones today, or a foundamental communist, what he would?


that was free world,
a poor man that had few fields of grain and few goats, and was away from his fields 2 years, was so free, to be generous, sharing his products, instead of selling them to black market. (there were many that made fortunes from balck market that time).
today most of us are 'slaves', cause through loans and high taxes we stoped to be free, we call them 'economical executioners' cause they are like heroin dealers,
they always say how high they can send you, but they never say what a crush you will have when you fall

and as a free man I prefer not to participate at their 'imperial' games, although I am cause our world is so small,

about economists
when Europe had Adam Smith and Marx and many others USA had not even economical theories, only rich men.
Europe after each WW manage to stand up and raise again due to CAYNES, my favorite economist,
when Europe abbandon caynes, misery and blaim came, cause even the last inventions and big corporations of mobile, NOKIA and ERICKSON, who once gave job at Europes factories, today are sold and are in Asia,
by following Caynes political system, Europe should be ahead of USA and Russia today, but our politicians are puppets of bankers,
today Europe has Pikety, an economist which I admire, yet we are still stucked to chicago economics who brought 'Argentina' to the world,
and all today we know Steve Jobs, and iphone, but 20 years before him Nokia had model 9**, who knows the designer of that wonderfull phone, the first mobile and laptop, upon which tablets are made?
nobody, why? cause bankers will not allow Europe to have legends,

the first strike against world freedom was this

they sunk a ship and send thousands to death to kill 3 economists
why? and who?
and why J P Morgan who owned the ship offered to 3 a luxus room, but although planed to embark he did not? after 3 economists embark?
few years later WW1 at Europe, the fear or the will of Jekyll island 1910? the real ghost of WW, but who knows it?
cause simply we can not tell if WW were planed there? or they try to avoid them? but surely 3 economists who were there died at Titanic,
Have you seen any practice of Jekyll island 1910?

well I can not say who is behind, but surely was not the Russians there, neither Chineses, neither Daesh Jihadists,
But surely I am not free, I am forced to pay a loan who took others for me, spend the money to luxury etc etc, so I am a slave,
as you see I lost my Freedom without a penny drop to my pocket,
if this you believe is free world, then it is all yours, I do not want it,

cause trully real freedom is there, at eidomene

and I am sure that they win or they will find a way to take what they want, cause they are free,
no matter that is not what I want, cause my culture is in danger,

''cause thinks clear, the one who think free'' From Greek revolution

 

[bicicleur 2]

if you try to use Erdogan to controll Putin, I think you'll create yourself a far worse enemy than Putin himself
let me remind you that Al Qaeda was supported by America to fight the Russians in Afghanistan
it was the start of their international carreer
and Europe should not rely on Erdogan to send the refugees back
it should first acknowledge the situation and say the Geneva and other international conventions have to be have to be amended because they simply are unworkable
now they let Erdogan do the dirty work because Erdogan is not tight to the same rules as Europe is tying itself to
it is a very hypocrit construction
Europe does not want to follow the rules, nor does it want to bend them, that is where Erdogan comes in
Europe should create it's own set of rules on how to deal with the refugees and these rules should remain humane, but practical

 

[Alan]

So many stories, what to believe?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk35suofbYQ

Russia Today with the story that CIA helped using Chemical weapons on Iran.

I have this habit, that I am carefull in regards of US involvements in the world when the media outlets are RT or the kind just as I am carefull in regards of stories about Russia when they are told by US media like CNN.

The both countries always through things at each other, but that is not the problem. Problematic it becomes if you believe everything.

 

[Angela]

if you try to use Erdogan to controll Putin, I think you'll create yourself a far worse enemy than Putin himself
let me remind you that Al Qaeda was supported by America to fight the Russians in Afghanistan
it was the start of their international carreer
and Europe should not rely on Erdogan to send the refugees back
it should first acknowledge the situation and say the Geneva and other international conventions have to be have to be amended because they simply are unworkable
now they let Erdogan do the dirty work because Erdogan is not tight to the same rules as Europe is tying itself to
it is a very hypocrit construction
Europe does not want to follow the rules, nor does it want to bend them, that is where Erdogan comes in
Europe should create it's own set of rules on how to deal with the refugees and these rules should remain humane, but practical

I doubt he'd be a worse enemy, but I in no way support the way the Obama administration and Merkel as well are handling any part of this situation, including the faith they seem to be putting in their ability to work with and control Erdogan.

@Yetos,
I'm perfectly willing to debate people who hold points of view different from my own. I'm not willing to debate people who believe conspiracy theories based on fantasies rather than fact or regurgitate propaganda put out by Russian state controlled media.

You people are turning me into an isolationist myself.

 

[Yetos]

come on do you believe that Russian propaganda is smart enough?
or Europe is Russia for you?

about the conspiracy theories,

they all died at Titanic conspiracy coinsidence, divine fate, you tell me, Astor was the richest man of the world that time,
and more

here,
http://www.jekyllislandhistory.com/federalreserve.shtml

there are no practiles, it was considered the top secret,
is it also coincidence that the same person senator Aldrich at 1930 submited?


<<Although Congress did not pass the reform bill submitted by Senator Aldrich, it did approve a similar proposal in 1913 called the Federal Reserve Act. The Federal Reserve System of today mirrors in essence the plan developed on Jekyll Island in 1910.>>

@Yetos,
I'm perfectly willing to debate people who hold points of view different from my own. I'm not willing to debate people who believe conspiracy theories based on fantasies rather than fact or regurgitate propaganda put out by Russian state controlled media.

come on, USA, had put dictators all over world, same did Soviets with 'eternal presidents'
but Castro and Che is another story, as Mandela at Africa, as IRA at Ireland,
when European powers was on top they call them regent and viceroy,

and as USA citizen, I understand you, you must the raise the shield to defend your house,
but claiming that USA is better than Russia or ex European powers, come on,
or did not profit from the WW1 and WW2 in Europe, come on.

 

[ElHorsto]

Russian influence at Africa and middle East is not increasing, plz
it declines, it is decreasing,
they lost Kantafi and Libya and Santam who bought Scud missiles,
and also lost Egypt an ex 3rd world country, and now they lose most of Syrria,

You are spot on, +1. Everywhere Russia intervened (Georgia, Crimea, Syria,...) it was a defensive reaction, a desperate attempt to preserve the status quo, even if the methods might be controversial. Wherever the West intervened, it meant expansion. Certain elites in the west (not all!) smelled blood and play the "all-or-nothing card", betting on Russia's collapse or at least it's retreat behind the Urals. Merkel aligned with them.
Russia has many problems: too large land mass, not enough people, too strong to be no superpower, too weak to remain a superpower. It needs at least neutral buffer zones like Finland (see Mearsheimer, Brzerzinski, Kissinger). It is possible that Russia in the future becomes imperialist like every country does if it can, but for now it is in a defensive situation.

Now the cold war is there, the "cordon sanitaire/Intermarium" between Russia and Europe is built, distrust and sanctions established, which was one goal of the Ukraine coup. Friendly and profitable relations win-win between Europe and Russia are destroyed. Congrats to EU for shooting it's own foot! Islamists sneak to the south of Russia and Caucasus, and Europe. Turkey is linked to this. Congrats to EU for shooting it's second foot!

You are also right that both, the West and Russia are struggling with death.
China recently joined the debt community.
Europe as usual is acting like a fool, eating itself.
Russia was already almost dead under Jelzin, who had even more administrative power than "dictator" Putin, who stopped the collapse.

Money printing stopped working, we entered negative interest rate territory. If not an arms race can buy time for the economy, a hot war could (According to G. Friedman, US escaped the Great Depression due to WW2, not money printing). Also Russia increases arms export in order to compensate losses from oil and gas export.
I prefer helicopter money, not perfect but better than the alternatives.
I disagree with Keynesianism though.

so the myth that USA is using Turkey to stabilize area against Russia is a myth, a BIG MYTH,
simply they create a new ISLAM defender, Erdogan,

 

[Silesian]

come on do you believe ............

At one time Roman Empire was the most powerful in all of Europe. Do you think that Titus Flavius Caesar Vespasianus Augustus- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespasian#/media/File:Vespasianus03_pushkin.jpg and what he did; could have ever imagined that Rome could have been depopulated from 1million to 35,000?

Its population declined from more than a million in 210 AD to 500,000 in 273^[39] to 35,000 after the Gothic War,^[40] reducing the sprawling city to groups of inhabited buildings interspersed among large areas of ruins, vegetation, vineyards and market gardens.^[41]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome
Sometimes things just fall apart. No conspiracy theory needed.
Draco-Draconian
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draco_(lawgiver)

 

[Yetos]

You are spot on, +1. Everywhere Russia intervened (Georgia, Crimea, Syria,...) it was a defensive reaction, a desperate attempt to preserve the status quo, even if the methods might be controversial. Wherever the West intervened, it meant expansion. Certain elites in the west (not all!) smelled blood and play the "all-or-nothing card", betting on Russia's collapse or at least it's retreat behind the Urals. Merkel aligned with them.
Russia has many problems: too large land mass, not enough people, too strong to be no superpower, too weak to remain a superpower. It needs at least neutral buffer zones like Finland (see Mearsheimer, Brzerzinski, Kissinger). It is possible that Russia in the future becomes imperialist like every country does if it can, but for now it is in a defensive situation.

Now the cold war is there, the "cordon sanitaire/Intermarium" between Russia and Europe is built, distrust and sanctions established, which was one goal of the Ukraine coup. Friendly and profitable relations win-win between Europe and Russia are destroyed. Congrats to EU for shooting it's own foot! Islamists sneak to the south of Russia and Caucasus, and Europe. Turkey is linked to this. Congrats to EU for shooting it's second foot!

You are also right that both, the West and Russia are struggling with death.
China recently joined the debt community.
Europe as usual is acting like a fool, eating itself.
Russia was already almost dead under Jelzin, who had even more administrative power than "dictator" Putin, who stopped the collapse.

Money printing stopped working, we entered negative interest rate territory. If not an arms race can buy time for the economy, a hot war could (According to G. Friedman, US escaped the Great Depression due to WW2, not money printing). Also Russia increases arms export in order to compensate losses from oil and gas export.
I prefer helicopter money, not perfect but better than the alternatives.
I disagree with Keynesianism though.

yet it was Keynesianism who rebuilt Europe after WW2.

 

[Yetos]

At one time Roman Empire was the most powerful in all of Europe. Do you think that Titus Flavius Caesar Vespasianus Augustus- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespasian#/media/File:Vespasianus03_pushkin.jpg and what he did; could have ever imagined that Rome could have been depopulated from 1million to 35,000?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome
Sometimes things just fall apart. No conspiracy theory needed.
Draco-Draconian
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draco_(lawgiver)

Rome's power at that time was not its people, its citizens, it was praitors and legions,
with a good amount of denari you could buy a praitorian and become emperror,
and when a state enters that situation, that status, is already with one foot at the tomb,
when I can buy Roman citizenship, and be a Roman, then Rome is dead, and the only way to prove that is alive, is to make expansion wars, which many times are not worthy, just to prove that you are alive,
Julius brougth oyster shells from Albion coasts to show how meaningless it was, but who understood it?
same is today with Europe, soon Europe will be full with 'citizens' who only ask rights, have citizenship, but not care for her, cause Europe is givind citizenship easier than Romans did,
you could buy a vote of a Roman citizen with a bucket of grain,
you can buy a vote of a modern European with 5 E raise to its social state help subvention,
or just with 50 E

about Dracon and his laws, well we all know the story, i can not understand what has to do,

 

[bicicleur 2]

I doubt he'd be a worse enemy, but I in no way support the way the Obama administration and Merkel as well are handling any part of this situation, including the faith they seem to be putting in their ability to work with and control Erdogan.

Russia is merely trying to consolidate it's current influence sphere, something which they won't be able to hold because their military and economical power is decreasing.
Erdogan makes Turkey dream of expansion and a revival of a Muslim Ottoman empire. He has completely destroyed the legacy of Ataturk.

Maybe you are right, maybe I am. It is a complicated matter. It is easier to say what has been done wrong than saying what is the right policy now.

 

[ElHorsto]

yet it was Keynesianism who rebuilt Europe after WW2.

Maybe to some extent, but I think mainly the need of rebuilding itself was driving the economy ("Creative destruction", Schumpeter). Monetary expansion was more a consequence of that, not the cause.

 

[Angela]

Russia is merely trying to consolidate it's current influence sphere, something which they won't be able to hold because their military and economical power is decreasing.
Erdogan makes Turkey dream of expansion and a revival of a Muslim Ottoman empire. He has completely destroyed the legacy of Ataturk.

Maybe you are right, maybe I am. It is a complicated matter. It is easier to say what has been done wrong than saying what is the right policy now.

As to Erdogan, I fear you may be right.

As to Russia, I sincerely hope your more optimistic view turns out to be correct, especially for the Baltic countries and countries like Poland. The latter, especially, has paid the price for Russian aggression too many times.

I would just suggest that in foreign affairs, it's always best to prepare for the worst scenario, not hope for the best one.

Actually, that's my motto in personal life as well. It's never let me down yet.