I1 was not "Germanic" branch,it was hunter gatherer probably,we found I1 in Neolitic Hungary,nothing Germanic here.
Yes nowadays I1 is the most frequent in Germanic countries,but I1-Z63 clade is found all over Europe that's a difference.
If the Goths came from Scandinavia as I1 carriers,we should see this amount of the norse branch of I1 and not of I1-Z63 which is almost absent there,isn't this obvious.
All right but Saxons and Goths are people with totally different history,we should talk separate about this people,Just like we found some branches of I2a din only among north Slavs and not among Southern,or we found I2 from Sardinia to Malta,Crete,Kurdistan.Well nothing Slavic about this haplogroup! we can talk about this to certain degree only for some clades.
Here i agree but I1-Z63 might not be Germanic,but Germanized much like it was Slavicized,Romanized etc,could be a old wandering farmer lineage around Europe,ending up in many countries and peoples.
Around 99% of I1 is DF29+ which is very clearly of Germanic origin about 2650 BC (4600 YBP).
The origins of I1 are unclear at this point. The single BAB5 sample from the LBKT culture is the first found. The next are Angmöllen Sweden. One sample can only be used for speculation because anything is possible.
SF11 found on the island of Götland was a historical side branch, only positive for 7 and negative for 10 modern I1 SNPs. SF11 lived about the same time as BAB5. That is a wide distance for what may have been sporadic I* branches, of which only I1 survived.
Even the distribution of DF29- men appears to have Germanic origins.
Now, some people may take offense to my use of "German" and Scandinavian. These are almost the same people in an ancient context. West and South Germans ended up with more Celtic influence.
What I really mean by "Germanic" in the context of modern I1 is probably northern Germanic and Scandinavian, with hardly a line between them.
The climate in Scandinavia is much more sensitive to changes. A cold snap of a few years could cause most people to vacate large areas due to crop failures. There may not be much Visigothic Y-DNA left because many of them migrated in the large group.
There is no way the Goths were only across the water, unless they only picked up tribes with Z63 as they moved farther.
I will post some cool maps when my computer is repaired and I have more time.
The old German tribes were always combing, splitting, and fighting. That is why they all carried all branches of I1, in addition to a probable common heritage to begin with.
The Anglo-Saxon migrations to England also included Jutes and probably some Frisians. The Danelaw area of England closely tracks the greatest concentrations of L22. That was also where the Angles settled originally. So, we have no way of knowing how much L22 was in the Angles to begin with. Jutes also probably had good amounts of L22.
Many cultures called all Germans by one name, usually the largest tribe they had contact with. The Scotti called them Sassanach (Saxons), the Welsh Sassoneg, etc. The French call Germany Alemmania after one tribe, even though they themselves are now named after a German Tribe.
So, the tribes were not separate at all. The labels by which they are known may not be accurate. The Saxons apparently included many smaller tribes like Chauci. There were lots of Suebi and Longobard/Lombard groups too. And of course Goths.
The bottom line is that modern I1 became Germanic and then moved with Germanic tribes into places such as Serbia. There is Irish Z63 of people who test essentially purely Celtic on modern tests.
Pre-modern I1 may have had non-germanic origins to begin with, but we cannot know at this point. Picking exactly the identity of a haplogroup is tricky because the autosomal component can change, see R1.
We call M269 and M417 european today because that is what they became, like modern I1 became Germanic.
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