23andMe Share your 23andMe Ancestry Composition

Angela, here my attachment (I hope you see):

https://imgur.com/a/ICZnIu6

Grazie, Stuvane. Yes, I see it.

I think these "southern" traces must be very old. Odd, though, that Calabria is at number 3 for both of us. It's not like it was a particularly sea-faring area. Perhaps, as you said, Roman colonies of soldiers from Calabria settled in Emilia/Romagna?
 
Here are mine.



I think France doesn't make sense, 'cause 1) No French in family; 2) My parents don't get this "likely match" in their results.

 
Grazie, Stuvane. Yes, I see it.

I think these "southern" traces must be very old. Odd, though, that Calabria is at number 3 for both of us. It's not like it was a particularly sea-faring area. Perhaps, as you said, Roman colonies of soldiers from Calabria settled in Emilia/Romagna?

Yes, Angela.
In other words, I'm wondering if something similar to Como occurred in Emilia: Julius Caesar, in 59 BC, refounded the Larian city (Novum Comum) with 5,000 settlers, of whom 500 were Greeks (even though they were not permanently in the area). It's a fact reported by Strabo, in his Geography, in the book dedicated to Italy (the Vth one). See here

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper...1999.01.0239:book=5:chapter=1&highlight=comum
 
Yes, Angela.
In other words, I'm wondering if something similar to Como occurred in Emilia: Julius Caesar, in 59 BC, refounded the Larian city (Novum Comum) with 5,000 settlers, of whom 500 were Greeks (even though they were not permanently in the area). It's a fact reported by Strabo, in his Geography, in the book dedicated to Italy (the Vth one). See here

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper...1999.01.0239:book=5:chapter=1&highlight=comum

Very interesting.

I get over 10% French and German too. I think that's also very old. Probably it's excess "Gallic"/"Celtic" from the migrations around the middle of the first millennium BC. That's why they call the Ligurians Celt-Ligurians. (It stretches into the Apuan Alps.) There were migrations into the North too.

I think 23andme picks up things from around the classical era, but before that it's too homogenized.

I think my part Tuscan roots "increase" my "Italian" number. I have a feeling the "centrum" for Italy is around there.
 
Very interesting.

I get over 10% French and German too. I think that's also very old. Probably it's excess "Gallic"/"Celtic" from the migrations around the middle of the first millennium BC. That's why they call the Ligurians Celt-Ligurians. (It stretches into the Apuan Alps.) There were migrations into the North too.

I think 23andme picks up things from around the classical era, but before that it's too homogenized.

I think my part Tuscan roots "increase" my "Italian" number. I have a feeling the "centrum" for Italy is around there.

I had forgotten the following:

"Near to the mountains above Luna is the city of Lucca. Some [of the people of this part of Italy] dwell in villages, nevertheless it is well populated, and furnishes the greater part of the military force, and of equites, of whom the senate is partly composed. "

There's also this, which I found interesting, in addition to all the towns of Emilia and Romagna mentioned:

"
From Placentia to Ariminum there are 1300 stadia. About 36 miles above Placentia, towards the boundaries of the kingdom of Cottius, is the city of Ticinum,65 by which flows a river66 bearing the same name, which falls into the Po, while a little out of the route are Clastidium,67 Derthon,68 and Aquæ-Statiellæ.69" The latter two are Tortona and Acqui, which we've discussed in reference to population isolates and the "Piemonte" sample, which is really in the Ligurian Alps, and speaks a Ligurian dialect.


 
Curiously, 23andMe hasn't detected Lombardy for my father, while his paternal grandmother was born in province of Mantova. His other 3 grandparents were from province of Treviso.
 
I don't know if it's real Italian ancestry in the Greek Aegean Islands. The 23andMe's Italian label peaks in Southern Italians, anywhere between Molise and Abruzzo, followed by Apulians. The 23andMe Italian category is based on Italian-Americans who are mostly of Southern Italian descent, and only secondarily and to some extent on Central Italians.

On 23andMe the Greek label is included in the Balkan category, and Balkan peaks in Montenegrins and Albanians, and in Greece there have been many migrations from Albania in recent centuries.

Autosomal map based on the data of 23andMe users of full Italian ancestry.




sRhb03A.png

This new stuff is confusing me related to Greece. Mainland Greeks and Island Greeks have huge genetic difference. Mainland Greeks are heavily Balkan, Island Greeks barely. Also Regio Calabria region and Eastern Sicily should have been heavily Balkan, since they are Greek settlements, instead they are slightly ,according to the map you have introduced for Italy,.Balkan element in Sicily is among the lowest in Italy. This tells me that Island people are the real Greeks, since their Balkan admixture is equal with that or Eastern Sicily and Calabria, and both are historically known as Greeks. So mainland Greek population is Greek in name only, but not in their blood, and calls "Macedonians are Greeks" looks quite absurd genetically. Or could be that the studies are still incomplete, and the picture on the map does not reflect the reality. We might have to weight some more time until the picture becomes definite. The history stands by Albanian claims that Western Italy was settled by some Illyrian tribes in the past. And indeed western part of Italy is heavily Balkan. If these maps stand Greeks need to be quiet about being Balkan people and not Anatolians.
 
This new stuff is confusing me related to Greece. Mainland Greeks and Island Greeks have huge genetic difference. Mainland Greeks are heavily Balkan, Island Greeks barely. Also Regio Calabria region and Eastern Sicily should have been heavily Balkan, since they are Greek settlements, instead they are slightly ,according to the map you have introduced for Italy,.Balkan element in Sicily is among the lowest in Italy. This tells me that Island people are the real Greeks, since their Balkan admixture is equal with that or Eastern Sicily and Calabria, and both are historically known as Greeks. So mainland Greek population is Greek in name only, but not in their blood, and calls "Macedonians are Greeks" looks quite absurd genetically. Or could be that the studies are still incomplete, and the picture on the map does not reflect the reality. We might have to weight some more time until the picture becomes definite. The history stands by Albanian claims that Western Italy was settled by some Illyrian tribes in the past. And indeed western part of Italy is heavily Balkan. If these maps stand Greeks need to be quiet about being Balkan people and not Anatolians.
 
I don't know if it's real Italian ancestry in the Greek Aegean Islands. The 23andMe's Italian label peaks in Southern Italians, anywhere between Molise and Abruzzo, followed by Apulians. The 23andMe Italian category is based on Italian-Americans who are mostly of Southern Italian descent, and only secondarily and to some extent on Central Italians.

On 23andMe the Greek label is included in the Balkan category, and Balkan peaks in Montenegrins and Albanians, and in Greece there have been many migrations from Albania in recent centuries.

Autosomal map based on the data of 23andMe users of full Italian ancestry.


sRhb03A.png
Explain me something! Why Sicily and Calabria known Greeks settlements are low on Balkans? Does this mean that ancient Greeks were not Balkan people?
And wester Italy where there were Illyrian settlements is higher on Balkan as it should be? Also Island Greeks are equal with Sicily and Calabria with very little Balkan admixture? Does this mean the real Greeks are Island Greeks and mainland Greek in name only?
 
Father


Mother

Most people in the north seem to have sicily and calabria in a minor capacity.............maybe its a goth/lombard etc migration from the past
Is this test only for 500 years or is it longer?
 
Explain me something! Why Sicily and Calabria known Greeks settlements are low on Balkans? Does this mean that ancient Greeks were not Balkan people?
And wester Italy where there were Illyrian settlements is higher on Balkan as it should be? Also Island Greeks are equal with Sicily and Calabria with very little Balkan admixture? Does this mean the real Greeks are Island Greeks and mainland Greek in name only?
it means that sicily and calabria had many different ethnic races from Roman times to present .
the illyrian settlements are part of your dark balkan along the adriatic coast.
Island greek and mainland greeks.....there is still an issue here based on the parents of my( and wife friends ) greek island friends
.
I will ask my next door Greek neighbour after........he is from samothrace island
 
All the academic papers show how close southern Italians, mainland Greeks, and island Greeks are to one another.

The discrepancy in 23andme is because of where they place their clusters. It's because they have an Italian cluster which is heavily based on Southern Italians and to an extent on central Italians, and then a cluster on the Balkans including mainland Greece. That leaves the island Greeks out in the cold, so the algorithm chooses the "closest" clusters and makes them sort of a mix.

If they had a cluster based on northern Italy and one based on mainland Greece, but no southern Italian cluster, then southern Italians would come out with a big chunk of Greek, and a chunk of "Italian", or Northern Italian.

Some companies, like Ancestry, I think, just combine Southern Italy and Greece. I assume that people like Romanians get a chunk of that component?


The ancestry doesn't change: just the labels.

You can't think so linearly, people.

FYI, the Lombards and Goths moved north to south.

Also fyi, my husband's beta map shows a bit of movement north to south, but although widespread, it's not very significant. Colonia as well? Or perhaps in his case it's northerners going into Napoli. It does a great job of showing that he has mixed Calabrian and Campanian ancestry. The Sicily signal makes sense as well: the province of Reggio Calabria isn't all that different from eastern Sicily.

He has 12% "West Asian" i.e. Caucasus, and .7% North African and Arabian. It doesn't seem as if much traveled up into the mainland. Also, Balkan shows up: 2.2%.

I wonder what Sicilians show.

7XnYBnm.png
 
my new 23andme v3 ancestry

....
.
.
.
Clicking on my Italian which increased to 36% ( rounding )
Taking away family members .....2 matches with Trentini ......
.
My 14% french -German
3 matches with Austrians and 2 with Germans ( hmm, no french ) .............2 Austrians have Italian surnames, Cisneros from south-tyrol and Moro from Veneto
.
My 3 % Balkan
matches with 1 each of Croatian, Montenegrin and Romanian ( is Romania really Balkan ?)
.
My 3% UK
all matches just say united kingdom
.
1% Sardinia
zero matches.
.
26% NW-Europe
zero matches.
.
15% south Europe
zero matches
.
1% westAsian.
.
1% east-Asian
 
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I don't think I participated in this thread, if I did please excuse me. :ashamed2:

Italian 70.8%
Broadly Southern European 10.4%
Broadly Northwestern European 1.4%
Broadly European 3.6%
Western Asian & North African 12.9%
Western Asian 10.7%
North African & Arabian 1.1%
Broadly Western Asian & North African 1.2%

My four grandparents were from Italy and Sicily. My maternal side was from Maddaloni, Campania, Caserta. My paternal line was from Collesano, Palermo Sicily. mtDNA is HV4a, yDNA is T1a1a.
 
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Here's mine, both sides of my family come from the same two towns in the province of Bari, from as far back as they can remember.

Compare to AncestryDNA
Merry Christmas :)

zcb1es1.jpg



1bYNye8.jpg


eDcVjaO.jpg


LyLmq0f.jpg


I know, they didn’t include Salento. lol
 
Compare to AncestryDNA
Merry Christmas :)
zcb1es1.jpg

1bYNye8.jpg

eDcVjaO.jpg

LyLmq0f.jpg

I know, they didn’t include Salento. lol
Thanks Salento, Merry Christmas
I'm actually waiting for my AncestryDNA results to come in soon. It will be interesting to compare it to my 23andme results.
 
Clicking on my Italian which increased to 36% ( rounding )
Taking away family members .....2 matches with Trentini ......
.
My 14% french -German
3 matches with Austrians and 2 with Germans ( hmm, no french ) .............2 Austrians have Italian surnames, Cisneros from south-tyrol and Moro from Veneto
.
My 3 % Balkan
matches with 1 each of Croatian, Montenegrin and Romanian ( is Romania really Balkan ?)
.
My 3% UK
all matches just say united kingdom
.
1% Sardinia
zero matches.
.
26% NW-Europe
zero matches.
.
15% south Europe
zero matches
.
1% westAsian.
.
1% east-Asian
South Romania is ''really Balkan''huge population of Pontids in that region.
 
Most people in the north seem to have sicily and calabria in a minor capacity.............maybe its a goth/lombard etc migration from the past
Is this test only for 500 years or is it longer?
In theory, about 500 years, I guess. In theory...
Not sure, but assuming these additional French & German plus NW European %s in Venetians ("additional" compared to most of other Italians) tend to be in fact (Southern) French mostly - rather than Northern French or German -, like my own results suggest, I wonder if it wouldn't be a clue that it has almost nothing to do with the invasions of Lombards, Goths or whatever. And I'm not aware of any big movements from France/Swiss to NE Italy in recent times. Perhaps it's nothing more than shared ancestry with some Central Europeans, notably French and Swiss?
 

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