Stable population structure in Europe since the Iron Age, despite high mobility

Jovialis

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R-PF7566 (R-Y227216)
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H6a1b7

Abstract

Ancient DNA research in the past decade has revealed that European population structure changed dramatically in the prehistoric period (14,000–3000 years before present, YBP), reflecting the widespread introduction of Neolithic farmer and Bronze Age Steppe ancestries. However, little is known about how population structure changed from the historical period onward (3000 YBP - present). To address this, we collected whole genomes from 204 individuals from Europe and the Mediterranean, many of which are the first historical period genomes from their region (e.g. Armenia and France). We found that most regions show remarkable inter-individual heterogeneity. At least 7% of historical individuals carry ancestry uncommon in the region where they were sampled, some indicating cross-Mediterranean contacts. Despite this high level of mobility, overall population structure across western Eurasia is relatively stable through the historical period up to the present, mirroring geography. We show that, under standard population genetics models with local panmixia, the observed level of dispersal would lead to a collapse of population structure. Persistent population structure thus suggests a lower effective migration rate than indicated by the observed dispersal. We hypothesize that this phenomenon can be explained by extensive transient dispersal arising from drastically improved transportation networks and the Roman Empire’s mobilization of people for trade, labor, and military. This work highlights the utility of ancient DNA in elucidating finer scale human population dynamics in recent history.

 
I agree that the urban graveyard effect likely has played a major role in reinforcing robust population profile structures while simultaneously reducing the impact of genetic drifters who had more foreign profiles. That being said, inhumation and its corresponding foreign ethnic correlations in prechristian europe has much elevated the heterogenity of genetic profiles in surviving and sequenced corpses of our modern studies. This is a classic survivorship bias and this population heterogenity should not be taken as a literal representation of wider society. This is also why such heterogenity drops drastically after the standardization of christian inhumations.

One thing I also disagree with the authors on is associating "Eastern Mediterranean" ancestry with the near east. It was already found in Greece in the Bronze age. I think we are well beyond the point to where we should be specifying "Bronze Age Aegean" or "Bronze Age Greek" when we discuss this profile.
 
posted in Genarchivist forum
mtdna types:


R2210 ERR9856926 U5a1a1+152 0.9451
R10506 ERR9856932 U6a3b1 0.9431
R10656 ERR9856810 J1c2 0.9411
R10508 ERR9856966 U6a3b1 0.9362
R2055 ERR9856915 T1a1 0.9351
R10633 ERR9856930 T1a1 0.9351
R11543 ERR9856939 K1a12a 0.9323
R3918 ERR9856984 K2b1 0.9309
R10496 ERR9856861 U5a1c1a 0.9298
R6759 ERR9856879 U5a2a1 0.9275
R10657 ERR9856911 K1a3 0.9269
R2066 ERR9856811 K1a4a1a 0.9268
R11714 ERR9856872 U7a4a1a 0.9268
R11868 ERR9856962 U5a1i1 0.9244
R11121 ERR9856975 U5a1a2a 0.9231
R10665 ERR9856980 U5b2a2a1 0.9218
R3662 ERR9856866 U5a2b 0.9207
R3656 ERR9856904 U5a1 0.9206
R10501 ERR9856947 U6a3b1 0.9203
R2042 ERR9856988 U7b 0.9198
R11119 ERR9856958 T2c1a 0.9193
R11540 ERR9856848 U7a 0.9191
R10502 ERR9856885 K1a+195 0.9178
R3931 ERR9856994 H2a1f2 0.9172
R11668 ERR9856826 W6 0.9167
R3361 ERR9856986 J1b2 0.9167
R10477 ERR9856850 U5a2a1 0.9165
R10832 ERR9856891 H4a1a1a 0.9155
R11875 ERR9856853 J1c5a 0.9138
R10667 ERR9856865 I6b 0.9138
R3542 ERR9856837 U5b2b 0.9137
R1294 ERR9856957 U5a2c3a 0.9133
R2208 ERR9857001 HV9a1 0.9132
R3744 ERR9856815 T1a+152 0.9099
R2209 ERR9856998 W1e1a 0.9097
R12233 ERR9856908 K1a8 0.9077
R10469 ERR9856892 W1h 0.9076
R11675 ERR9856878 U5a1 0.9072
R11112 ERR9856813 T2 0.9048
R11544 ERR9856944 T2a1b2b 0.9031
R1557 ERR9856949 K1a1 0.9030
R10634 ERR9856839 T2b+16362 0.9021
R10507 ERR9856874 T1a1 0.9007
R10625 ERR9856845 H41a 0.9001
R10836 ERR9856881 U5a2a1 0.8997
R10471 ERR9856961 J1b2 0.8976
R11391 ERR9856824 H11a 0.8974
R10467 ERR9856917 N1b1a 0.8962
R11541 ERR9856943 T1a10a 0.8931
R3663 ERR9856825 U5b2a2c 0.8920
R1292 ERR9856858 J2a1a2a 0.8920
R3660 ERR9856959 K2a3 0.8920
R11867 ERR9856867 U5b1d1b 0.8914
R3745 ERR9856830 I4a1 0.8909
R11115 ERR9856914 U6a6a1 0.8903
R1554 ERR9856889 T2a1b1 0.8899
R11116 ERR9856827 T2 0.8897
R3478 ERR9857000 W1+119 0.8894
R9674 ERR9856912 X2d* 0.8890
R11866 ERR9856919 T1a1 0.8885
R10499 ERR9856860 T1a1 0.8873
R10488 ERR9856921 M1a3a 0.8870
R10491 ERR9856888 U5b2a6 0.8864
R12246 ERR9856940 U4b1b2 0.8862
R11872 ERR9856880 H1c4b 0.8857
R10660 ERR9856876 U5b1b1+@16192 0.8849
R10670 ERR9856928 H1a3 0.8832
R11118 ERR9856935 K2 0.8831
R11538 ERR9856897 K1a 0.8826
R11833 ERR9856903 T2c1d+152 0.8822
R10620 ERR9856828 I1a1a 0.8811
R10503 ERR9856838 T2c1d+152 0.8791
R11832 ERR9856834 K2a2a 0.8787
R12245 ERR9856835 T2a1b 0.8786
R3657 ERR9856849 T2b 0.8783
R11558 ERR9856832 H27+16093 0.8782
R10840 ERR9856999 U5a1a1a 0.8782
R11835 ERR9856954 K1a2 0.8772
R11536 ERR9856979 K1a 0.8772
R11560 ERR9856863 U5b1b1+@16192 0.8768
R11120 ERR9856855 L1b1a16 0.8763
R2201 ERR9856854 T2b 0.8760
R9823 ERR9856950 U6a5 0.8744
R10500 ERR9856856 T2e1a 0.8739
R9673 ERR9856973 U5a2d 0.8733
R3477 ERR9856862 U5a1 0.8724
R3742 ERR9856873 J1d1b1 0.8720
R9918 ERR9856831 I1b 0.8707
R11557 ERR9856869 T1a1 0.8699
R3747 ERR9856923 H1t 0.8686
R6769 ERR9856941 U4b1b1 0.8686
R2202 ERR9856907 U2e1b 0.8680
R10766 ERR9856967 N1b1a 0.8679
R11828 ERR9856952 U5b3a2 0.8678
R6756 ERR9856857 J2b1c 0.8662
R3670 ERR9856823 T2 0.8649
R3659 ERR9856821 K1a2a 0.8602
R6693 ERR9856968 K1a2 0.8591
R11552 ERR9856913 H6a1a 0.8588
R2058 ERR9856816 H46 0.8581
R3743 ERR9856890 I1b 0.8580
R9919 ERR9856884 U4a2 0.8573
R9818 ERR9856910 U6a5 0.8572
R3476 ERR9856818 U5a1 0.8557
R10618 ERR9856901 H3b+16129 0.8557
R6737 ERR9856887 H2a2+(16235) 0.8542
R11546 ERR9856976 R1b1 0.8537
R2045 ERR9856937 U5a1 0.8528
R2211 ERR9856898 U4a2b 0.8515
R10631 ERR9856868 H1 0.8500
R10770 ERR9856894 H1 0.8500
R6688 ERR9856955 H1 0.8500
R3544 ERR9856920 T2c1a2 0.8477
R9669 ERR9856931 H+16291 0.8461
R3482 ERR9856978 R0a1a4 0.8446
R11109 ERR9856933 X2m'n 0.8442
R11550 ERR9856871 H26a1 0.8422
R9920 ERR9856996 H11a 0.8421
R2204 ERR9856886 H41a 0.8418
R10838 ERR9856819 U4d1 0.8402
R11535 ERR9856851 H+152 0.8393
R11559 ERR9856900 H6a1a4 0.8391
R10830 ERR9856812 H13a1a1b 0.8376
R11113 ERR9856969 T2b31 0.8370
R11713 ERR9856991 H 0.8365
R10626 ERR9856989 H3h5 0.8358
R10478 ERR9856951 J1c2 0.8349
R10666 ERR9856833 U7a 0.8342
R11678 ERR9856847 H13a1a2 0.8342
R3473 ERR9856844 J1d1b1 0.8293
R11555 ERR9856925 H30b 0.8285
R11554 ERR9856945 H30b 0.8285
R11553 ERR9856990 H30b 0.8285
R2200 ERR9856924 H5c1 0.8261
R3359 ERR9856820 U1a1a3 0.8243
R2057 ERR9856974 H20a2 0.8232
R11829 ERR9856842 HV0a 0.8226
R2206 ERR9856814 X2o1 0.8224
R2207 ERR9856841 U5a1g 0.8224
R10654 ERR9856918 HV0a 0.8212
R11877 ERR9856983 H3h 0.8196
R3481 ERR9856995 U6a2 0.8167
R6764 ERR9856909 H1q 0.8154
R2041 ERR9856893 H5b 0.8100
R11542 ERR9856977 H20 0.8043
R10760 ERR9856906 HV21 0.8020
R6730 ERR9856987 H35 0.8020
R10494 ERR9856922 H1bj 0.7976
R10473 ERR9856997 H20 0.7960
R2040 ERR9856870 H 0.7931
R11563 ERR9856899 H14b 0.7929
R3665 ERR9856875 H7c4 0.7928
R1555 ERR9856927 H7c2 0.7900
R11117 ERR9856971 X1'2'3 0.7888
R10658 ERR9856936 H1cf 0.7885
R3547 ERR9856840 H7b1 0.7871
R1223 ERR9856985 H7a1 0.7854
R10636 ERR9856992 H13b1+200 0.7846
R11873 ERR9856970 HV0a 0.7836
R12229 ERR9856972 J2b1 0.7756
R6681 ERR9856846 H5m 0.7745
R2051 ERR9856953 H7b1 0.7709
R11556 ERR9856822 H70 0.7693
R11545 ERR9856963 HV 0.7665
R11561 ERR9856934 H1 0.7660
R1874 ERR9856942 H1 0.7576
R3906 ERR9856829 H7c 0.7470
R2065 ERR9856982 H1q 0.7408
R1556 ERR9856981 H+195 0.7363
R10487 ERR9856916 H+152 0.7312
R11653 ERR9856895 H15b 0.7291
R3655 ERR9856965 H1 0.7276
R3543 ERR9856902 H60a 0.7269
R3664 ERR9856882 H1q 0.7243
R11651 ERR9856929 HV 0.7238
R9662 ERR9856938 HV0c 0.7141
R3685 ERR9856864 R0a 0.7091
R3746 ERR9856877 U4 0.7076
R11836 ERR9856883 H3 0.7042
R10659 ERR9856859 H 0.6950
R11655 ERR9856843 H 0.6902
R6750 ERR9856905 H 0.6775
R11834 ERR9856956 H 0.6717
R10668 ERR9856964 H 0.6579
R3545 ERR9856852 R 0.6506
R1225 ERR9856836 H 0.6468
R2053 ERR9856948 H 0.6321
R6701 ERR9856896 H 0.6306
R11111 ERR9856960 R0a 0.6051
R10474 ERR9856817 low cov. 0.5170
R2050 ERR9856946 low cov. 0.5000
R1291 ERR9856993 low cov. 0.5000
 
A list of Y-dna would be great too, if any kind soul would like to get on that.
 
@Polska did you or others notice any additional samples that weren't part of the 2022 version? These were the J2b-L283 samples from the paper:

ID R9669 Viminacium, Serbia 130-311 CE (~221 CE) J2b-L283>>Z615>Z597>Z638>Z1297>Y21878>CTS11100>CTS8364(xBY37860)
ID R6693 Sviloš-Kruševlje, Serbia 236-332 CE (~284 CE) J2b-L283>Z600>Z585>?
ID R3481 Doclea Bjelovine, Montenegro 211-321 CE (~266 CE) J2b-L283>>Z615>Z597>Z638>Z1297>Z631>Z1043
ID R2040 Sisak-Pogorelec, Croatia 245-402 CE (~324 CE) J2b-L283>>Z615>Z597>Y15058>Z38240>FT103684>Y263344>FT108131
ID R3543 Gardun (Tilurium), Croatia 431-601 CE (~516 CE) J2b-L283>>Z615>Z597>Y15058>Z38240>FT103684>FTA60432>FTA61140
ID R3544 Gardun (Tilurium), Croatia 550-601 CE (~576 CE) J2b-L283>>Z615>Z597>Z638>Z1297>Z631>Z1043>FGC55778>FT212328
ID R9918 Doclea Bjelovine, Montenegro 997-1151 (~1074 CE) J2b-L283>>Z615>Z597>Y15058>Z38240>CTS6190>Y272857
 
@Polska did you or others notice any additional samples that weren't part of the 2022 version? These were the J2b-L283 samples from the paper:

ID R9669 Viminacium, Serbia 130-311 CE (~221 CE) J2b-L283>>Z615>Z597>Z638>Z1297>Y21878>CTS11100>CTS8364(xBY37860)
ID R6693 Sviloš-Kruševlje, Serbia 236-332 CE (~284 CE) J2b-L283>Z600>Z585>?
ID R3481 Doclea Bjelovine, Montenegro 211-321 CE (~266 CE) J2b-L283>>Z615>Z597>Z638>Z1297>Z631>Z1043
ID R2040 Sisak-Pogorelec, Croatia 245-402 CE (~324 CE) J2b-L283>>Z615>Z597>Y15058>Z38240>FT103684>Y263344>FT108131
ID R3543 Gardun (Tilurium), Croatia 431-601 CE (~516 CE) J2b-L283>>Z615>Z597>Y15058>Z38240>FT103684>FTA60432>FTA61140
ID R3544 Gardun (Tilurium), Croatia 550-601 CE (~576 CE) J2b-L283>>Z615>Z597>Z638>Z1297>Z631>Z1043>FGC55778>FT212328
ID R9918 Doclea Bjelovine, Montenegro 997-1151 (~1074 CE) J2b-L283>>Z615>Z597>Y15058>Z38240>CTS6190>Y272857

Those locations all look familiar to me. So my very unscientific take is that these are all the same samples previously mentioned from 2022.
 
The preprint was already out 2 years ago, if I remember correctly. Interesting but it is based on the aprioristic and very simplistic thesis that every "foreigner" or utlier who died in a particular place then contributed to the formation of modern populations of that place. History of populations is much more complicated than that.
 
The preprint was already out 2 years ago, if I remember correctly. Interesting but it is based on the aprioristic and very simplistic thesis that every "foreigner" or utlier who died in a particular place then contributed to the formation of modern populations of that place. History of populations is much more complicated than that.
The final verdict will come with more uniparental data (yDNA, mtDNA), because that kind of data, when modern and ancient test results being combined and converted into a tree and migration pattern, is irrefutable with enough data points.
Then all those debates can be laid to rest, because if a haplogroup wasn't in Italia before the Roman era, but can be traced back to a Roman migrant from the East, with the lineage surviving to this day. we know for sure.
All we need is way more testing, high resolution testing for both ancients and moderns.

If you think about the Sardinian sample from Cagliari, its fantastic how much you can read out of it. Imagine all Italian (or European) provinces and ethnic groups would have been sampled as thoroughly.

On FTDNA I have quite a few Italian matches, of which only a handful have done a BigY. The closer matches all come from the Sardinian paper, with the Sardinians from Cagliari being largely a stand-in for Genuese/Ligurian Italians.

Italians are one of these groups which just need to test more.
 
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The final verdict will come with more uniparental data (yDNA, mtDNA), because that kind of data, when modern and ancient test results being combined and converted into a tree and migration pattern, is irrefutable with enough data points.
Then all those debates can be laid to rest, because if a haplogroup wasn't in Italia before the Roman era, but can be traced back to a Roman migrant from the East, with the lineage surviving to this day. we know for sure.
All we need is way more testing, high resolution testing for both ancients and moderns.

If you think about the Sardinian sample from Cagliaria, its fantastic how much you can read out of it. Imagine all Italian (or European) provinces and ethnic groups would have been sampled as thoroughly.

A single individual supports according to them that "North African ancestry exists in Western Europe"

“Similar North African ancestry in Western Europe is supported by a single individual, R10667, from Wels, Austria, a site located on the frontier of the Roman Empire"
 
A single individual supports according to them that "North African ancestry exists in Western Europe"

“Similar North African ancestry in Western Europe is supported by a single individual, R10667, from Wels, Austria, a site located on the frontier of the Roman Empire"

They are right, those kind of people roamed around in the whole Empire, that was part of the "Roman way of life" and rule. Just read up on some of the saints and bishops, where those came from. High mobility, especially between urban centres and classes of people, but also slaves, soldiers, merchants etc. was a signature of the later Roman Empire.
There are some better tested populations than Italian and even though the numbers are miniscule, we see that some "exotic" lineages are likely to have spread to areas like Netherlands, France and Germany in the Roman era. Like always, if they made it there, they surely made it to Italy too.
 
They are right, those kind of people roamed around in the whole Empire, that was part of the "Roman way of life" and rule. Just read up on some of the saints and bishops, where those came from. High mobility, especially between urban centres and classes of people, but also slaves, soldiers, merchants etc. was a signature of the later Roman Empire.
There are some better tested populations than Italian and even though the numbers are miniscule, we see that some "exotic" lineages are likely to have spread to areas like Netherlands, France and Germany in the Roman era. Like always, if they made it there, they surely made it to Italy too.

Of course, I can understand that this might be of interest to those who have outlier Y-DNA or mtDNA values, which should not be there.

The fact remains that they have not provided any evidence. Dromedary remains dating back to the 3rd century AD have been found in Austria. But dromedaries no longer existed in Austria, and today I challenge you to find them except in zoos and circuses. A single individual cannot be considered evidence to support anything. Even if the argument is plausible, again none of those you mention has ever been a closed community, geneticists must provide evidence. Whenever they have not done so, ridiculous studies have been published.

After 2,000 years, the genetic contribution, even assuming there really was one, is negligible and unlikely to have influenced the ancestry of the entire modern population of Western Europe.
 
After 2,000 years, the genetic contribution, even assuming there really was one, is negligible and unlikely to have influenced the ancestry of the entire modern population of Western Europe.
A good candidate to be a Roman injection collected in Africa :
Other exemples can be found with few E-M35 subclades.

Obivously the overall contribution was small, but there was still a contribution.
Existence of African ancestry injected in Western Europe, particularly during Roman times, is definitely a given ...

I can understand that this might be of interest to those who have outlier Y-DNA or mtDNA values, which should not be there.

A population can't be reduced to the "dominant" part of it ... but is defined by all the human composing it.

Also, DNA can't be reduced to haplogroups. At the end of the day, haplogroups are just groups of mutations "travelling" together due to some DNA transmission process. They are not more relevant than any other mutations we carry (They are just easier to follow in order to track human migrations).
Except for peoples obsessed by Paternal/Maternal lineages, haplgroups are not particularly relevant at the scale of an individual.
Not more than our bloodtypes, hair/eyes/skin-colors, ...

Humans who injected "exotic" haplogroups also injected other "exotic" mutations, that are likely still lurking around inside many Europeans. I see no reasons to not recognise their contribution, even if very small in total.
It would be like denying our Neanderthal genetic heritage because it is only a small fraction ...
 
A good candidate to be a Roman injection collected in Africa :
Other exemples can be found with few E-M35 subclades.

Obivously the overall contribution was small, but there was still a contribution.
Existence of African ancestry injected in Western Europe, particularly during Roman times, is definitely a given ...

A population can't be reduced to the "dominant" part of it ... but is defined by all the human composing it.

Also, DNA can't be reduced to haplogroups. At the end of the day, haplogroups are just groups of mutations "travelling" together due to some DNA transmission process. They are not more relevant than any other mutations we carry (They are just easier to follow in order to track human migrations).
Except for peoples obsessed by Paternal/Maternal lineages, haplgroups are not particularly relevant at the scale of an individual.
Not more than our bloodtypes, hair/eyes/skin-colors, ...

Humans who injected "exotic" haplogroups also injected other "exotic" mutations, that are likely still lurking around inside many Europeans. I see no reasons to not recognise their contribution, even if very small in total.
It would be like denying our Neanderthal genetic heritage because it is only a small fraction ...


It is not a question of whether or not to recognize certain contributions, as I have already written it is plausible that there are, but to prove them. Let us not kid ourselves, geneticists do not so often emphasize possible non-European contributions in Europeans simply for the sake of truth. They do so for quite other reasons as well.

A population is not just biology or genetics and here it is not an issue of uniparental markers or autosomal DNA; a population cannot be reduced to biological aspects alone.

No one here is denying that Neanderthal heritage exists in modern populations. But can we say that the example of Neanderthal heritage fits with what was being discussed? Neanderthal heritage exists in all Europeans according to geneticists, and coming to what was being discussed, is there evidence that North African heritage exists in all Western Europeans? I have some doubt, and in any case this is not proven, and certainly not from a single sample.
 
There was the Italic genetic make up and the Mycenaean one, and we all know that a lot of the Eastern/Southern ancestry in modern Europeans doesn't come from either, both in the Imperial Roman period and what survived of it in the modern.
And looking at that, we need more uniparental data to pinpoint the exact migration paths.
 
Let us not kid ourselves, geneticists do not so often emphasize possible non-European contributions in Europeans simply for the sake of truth. They do so for quite other reasons as well.
I don't think "politics" or "ideology" when I think of science.
Why are they emphasing some stuff ? Is it some ideological motivations ? I let that up to them ...
Unless the claim is false, I don't see the point of contesting the claim.

A population is not just biology or genetics and here it is not an issue of uniparental markers or autosomal DNA; a population cannot be reduced to biological aspects alone.
I don't think anyone pretended that a population can be reduced to its DNA.
But DNA is a biological aspect, we can't adress DNA contributions using "cultural considerations".

The main issue is people trying hard to equate DNA with cultures, languages, ...
All these stuff are correlated, but they are not bijective properties.

I like to take my own exemple: my autosomal DNA is ~Hallstatt-like, I speak a latin language, inside a country deriving its name from a germanic tribe (which is "standard" diagnostic in my country).

is there evidence that North African heritage exists in all Western Europeans? I have some doubt, and in any case this is not proven, and certainly not from a single sample.

We have significant amount of haplogroup tracing the contact between north Africa and Europe, I would find surprising considering the population movement during Roman era and later during middle age if someone in Europe today manage to have 0 ancestors from north Africa if we go back ~3000 years ago.

Few clade-cross-correlation figures for E-M35 involving Europe (splitted in Western-Europe, Italy, and Balkans) and Maghreb :
Capture-d-e-cran-2024-02-04-a-13-58-43.png

Capture-d-e-cran-2024-02-04-a-13-22-38.png


Capture-d-e-cran-2024-02-04-a-13-22-50.png


How to read :
blue line : diversity present in the "blue area" (here north-western africa)
red line : diversity present in the "red area" (either, western Europe, Italy, or Balkans depending on the figure)
black curves : shared diversity between red and blue area.
Black curve "drops" when clades are decoupling, indicating that red and clue regions are sourced by different branches of the concerned clade.
Therefore, a drop on the black curve indicates that the source population of blue and red region stopped bilogical interactions (often implying a migration).

What do we see :
1. Funnily we see some ~2900/2800 BCE signal, that I wasn't expecting ... Maybe if I have time I'll dig to see what is producing that and if it is (or not) noise dominated.
2. Western Europe was clearly sourced by E-M35 during Roman times, some stuff is also at play since Bronze-age collapse (not all the signal can be explained by E-V13).
3. Italy and Balkans likely received E-M35 via mediteranean trade explaining the First millenium BCE signal, some Roman era signal is also to be noted.

Thus, I think north african DNA injection during European Iron Age is definitely not an open question, it is a certitude.
 
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E-M35 is a bit general though, because there was significant back migration of both E-V13 and E-M34/E-M123 etc. into North Africa. Like I have E-V13 matches and upstream branch members which are clear cases of recent back migrations from Europa.

If we take E-M81 for example, it gets more specific:

On YFull there are 14 samples from Italy, many from Sardinia again (oversampling), but still there are clear cases like this late Roman one:

Early Roman overlap for Napoli and Sardinia:

Made it as far as Aosta, Belgium, Ireland etc.:

For some branches of E-M81, even more so E-M34, we deal with Jewish lineages in Europe.
 
I don't think "politics" or "ideology" when I think of science.
Why are they emphasing some stuff ? Is it some ideological motivations ? I let that up to them ...
Unless the claim is false, I don't see the point of contesting the claim.

You're very naive if you think that science is science and thus devoided of any bias. Science has always been in the service of power. Or have we already forgotten about the scientists serving the Nazis?

The very idea that science as science deserves unconditional trust is anti-scientific.

You absolutely missed my point about the example you gave of Neanderthals.

Neanderthal heritage is believed to be present in all Europeans, and it is admixture that it goes back tens and tens of thousands of years. Can the same be said of the Iron Age and Post-Iron Age North African? Can it really be said that all Western Europeans have a North African heritage?

Do you really understand what I am talking about? It would not seem so.

Western Europe according to this paper

4Hy3KnT.jpeg
 
Made it as far as Aosta, Belgium, Ireland etc.: E-Z5009
Nice one, I clearly see from where is coming the statistical signal I see in my probe :) .
 

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