Religion Study shows that IQ decreases with religiosity

LeBrok said:
As long as you can't see that the main difference between species is genetics we can't continue.
Really, we don't know that yet? Now I understand your confusion. Perhaps I could suggest few books about brain.

Wow, let's stop science. We are not intelligent enough to figure the world out. With such attitude we would have never invented computer and internet for you to discourage others from science.

You are confusing inability of understanding with inability to agree on one definition. That's normal for young sciences and sciences with big complexity of problems. It takes time to discover all and fully define everything. It is a process, you know. And it doesn't mean we don't know a lot already and we can't figure everything out. Not having complete knowledge on a subject doesn't defy knowing a lot already or having correct partial knowledge. It is not black and white issue. We know a lot already, and there is ongoing steady process of new discoveries and understanding.
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Lol...

Fantastic!
 
Runofmillsukrainian said:
I dont think being religous and IQ has correlation. It depends rather on two factors. How blinding from reality the specific religion can be perceived as, whether or not the individual has ability or want to compensate mind effectively to replace an outdated religous rule with a correct scientific proven fact
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There is a correlation,
a nonsense or spurious correlation,
nothing more...

But, as somebody else has written before,
that is not evidence of the cause - yet.

You see a lot of confused people,
who correlate genes with intelligence and, besides a sh*t load of bias,
the only thing they have as proof is... circular logic.

In the same group of people,
you find those who insist on seeing a correlation as proof of causation (right genes : high IQ).

They are usually "champions of science",
who recommend books on brain and intelligence...

They are often "paladins of truth",
who violate the method they defend so much...

But long story short,
ask them to show you exact which genes are responsible for intelligence,
and recommend them to take a DNA test instead of a IQ test...

The irony is,
they wouldn't really pass any of them.
 
castelleone said:
There is a correlation,
a nonsense or spurious correlation,
nothing more...

But, as somebody else has written before,
that is not evidence of the cause - yet.

You see a lot of confused people,
who correlate genes with intelligence and, besides a sh*t load of bias,
the only thing they have as proof is... circular logic.

In the same group of people,
you find those who insist on seeing a correlation as proof of causation (right genes : high IQ).

They are usually "champions of science",
who recommend books on brain and intelligence...

They are often "paladins of truth",
who violate the method they defend so much...

But long story short,
ask them to show you exact which genes are responsible for intelligence,
and recommend them to take a DNA test instead of a IQ test...

The irony is,
they wouldn't really pass any of them.
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Religion and IQ is not related, this is your opinion statement, it doesnt mean every Atheist has higher IQ than Catholic there is no correlation
 
intelligence_god.jpg


IQ_and_theism.png


http://www.humanreligions.info/intelligence.html
 
Maciamo said:
ScienceDirect - The intelligence–religiosity nexus: A representative study of white adolescent Americans



Good summary. It confirms what I have observed since my childhood. I have met a lot of agnostics that were as intelligent as atheists - they just didn't care much about philosophical questions or were less interested in neuroscience than atheists.

I have met some less bright people who didn't believe in god or in anything, but they were not true atheists. They were just people who didn't care and never really reflected on the existence of god. Technically they are implicit atheists (or "atheists by default"), although I wouldn't call them atheists - just lazy minds. This study probably only included explicit atheists.
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And probably guy with the highest IQ on Earth has a Theory exactly about... God's existence.

http://www.ctmu.org/
Whereas standard theology takes the existence of God as axiomatic and then attempts, often naively, to characterize the relationship between its assumed definition and a more or less concrete model of reality, logical theology explores a logical formulation of ultimate reality for any divine properties that might naturally reveal themselves; given that divine law (if it exists) would necessarily incorporate the laws of logic and mathematics on a basic level, it seeks evidence of divinity in the context of a reality-theoretic extension of logic, the CTMU. The implied convergence of theology, mathematics and science yields a reality-based theological framework with the strength and capacity to support realistic solutions to various real-world problems.


Ah the irony...:laughing:
 
I can definitely see intellectual curiosity dropping when you design your life and thought process around religious sets of rules. Not talking about a belief here, but the feeling that everything will be ok as long as you stay within a certain box.
 
how about atheist people becoming religious as me or religious people becoming atheist? I don't feel any change in intelligence (WTF!), instead, research attitudes were widened.
 
The question is: Does IQ really matter for nature? And, what the IQ really is? Or, mankind: what is more important for development of societies, what is the engine of successful development? Believe in something, or have (presumably, statistically and subjectively) high IQ?
And - does this study or sentence "IQ decreases with religiosity" have any sense? Any added value to evolution of species including humans?
 
Show me an atheist who is a genuine genius and I will eat my hat.

Every single one of the most brilliant minds in the history of the Earth have been the most spiritually connected or religious persons; Pythagoras, Leonardo Da Vinci, Sir Isaac Newton, Nikola Tesla etc... Even modern individuals who I'd not quite class as genius's, but people of very high intelligence and accomplishment in limited fields such as Einstein and Max Plank, and Professor Yan Xin, were very spiritual.
 
SYNCHRONIC said:
Show me an atheist who is a genuine genius and I will eat my hat.

Every single one of the most brilliant minds in the history of the Earth have been the most spiritually connected or religious persons; Pythagoras, Leonardo Da Vinci, Sir Isaac Newton, Nikola Tesla etc... Even modern individuals who I'd not quite class as genius's, but people of very high intelligence and accomplishment in limited fields such as Einstein and Max Plank, and Professor Yan Xin, were very spiritual.
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What about DARWIN? For him must have been hard ?
 
Tutkun Arnaut said:
What about DARWIN? For him must have been hard ?
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I don't see the genius in Charles Darwin personally, not to mention that the farther we come along, the more of his theory is put in question, and the more proof that a lot of the early "evidence" for his theories were forgeries. Also he took his ideas from others work/research, not something I consider synonymous with genius.
 
I think these studies (not the first one I have come across with this very same claim) are pretty lazy. What if lower religiosity and higher IQ are both not correlated to each other but instead strongly correlated to something else which broadens one's individualistic thinking and freedom of conscience, thus simply allowing many people who followed a religious belief just because it's the "thing that people do here", i.e. because of social conformity and collectivism in an environment without much freedom to exercise and express one's own thoughts and freely examined conclusions. Not too many people are firm and rationally convinced believers, most just follow what they were taught without much reflection about it. Some great minds who were also believers had that very different attitude, including some cases of former atheists who became religious: they were believers because they made a completely personal investigation about it and reached their own conclusions independently. That's why most of them are hardly the most orthodox and simple-minded believers you may find.

Then, the social and economic conditions that create that situation I described above may also allow people to increase their average IQ. In a traditionally and historically atheist society with strong social cues to have no spiritual or transcendental belief at all I wouldn't be surprised if more people with high IQ would in fact be religious or at least "spiritual", because the real correlation would be "people who are not conformists and are free-minded, thus more prone to oppose the social traditions and the usual way of thinking". I think that explanation is much, much more likely than simply saying that "IQ decreases with religiosity" without any remotely logical explanation to why one thing would cause the other.
 
Ygorcs said:
I think these studies (not the first one I have come across with this very same claim) are pretty lazy. What if lower religiosity and higher IQ are both not correlated to each other but instead strongly correlated to something else which broadens one's individualistic thinking and freedom of conscience, thus simply allowing many people who followed a religious belief just because it's the "thing that people do here", i.e. because of social conformity and collectivism in an environment without much freedom to exercise and express one's own thoughts and freely examined conclusions. Not too many people are firm and rationally convinced believers, most just follow what they were taught without much reflection about it. Some great minds who were also believers had that very different attitude, including some cases of former atheists who became religious: they were believers because they made a completely personal investigation about it and reached their own conclusions independently. That's why most of them are hardly the most orthodox and simple-minded believers you may find.

Then, the social and economic conditions that create that situation I described above may also allow people to increase their average IQ. In a traditionally and historically atheist society with strong social cues to have no spiritual or transcendental belief at all I wouldn't be surprised if more people with high IQ would in fact be religious or at least "spiritual", because the real correlation would be "people who are not conformists and are free-minded, thus more prone to oppose the social traditions and the usual way of thinking". I think that explanation is much, much more likely than simply saying that "IQ decreases with religiosity" without any remotely logical explanation to why one thing would cause the other.
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Hope and hope and more hope here. Let emotions go and follow the clues...

Just a simple fact that 99% of people follow religion of their parents, makes fallacy of their religion and mockery of spirituality. Same phenomenon as learning a language, or other traditions. Doesn't make anything true, special, right or exist. Just helps people to communicate, coexist, believe that their are special and having spirits on their side, which all of this makes their group stronger. The "end game" of human spirituality.
 
LeBrok said:
Hope and hope and more hope here. Let emotions go and follow the clues...

Just a simple fact that 99% of people follow religion of their parents, makes fallacy of their religion and mockery of spirituality. Same phenomenon as learning a language, or other traditions. Doesn't make anything true, special, right or exist. Just helps people to communicate, coexist, believe that their are special and having spirits on their side, which all of this makes their group stronger. The "end game" of human spirituality.
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:petrified: Merry Christmas to you Too!

fyi we’re not all a bunch of hypocrites.
 
LeBrok said:
Hope and hope and more hope here. Let emotions go and follow the clues...

Just a simple fact that 99% of people follow religion of their parents, makes fallacy of their religion and mockery of spirituality. Same phenomenon as learning a language, or other traditions. Doesn't make anything true, special, right or exist. Just helps people to communicate, coexist, believe that their are special and having spirits on their side, which all of this makes their group stronger. The "end game" of human spirituality.
Click to expand...


True spirituality is the seeking of knowledge of this reality and beyond, and the advancement throughout the layers of existence, beginning with the development and nurturing of the soul/spirit. Most mainstream "religions" are nothing more than social clubs rather than anything resembling spiritual development. Eastern Orthodox Christianity and Buddhism might be the only major/widely practise religious systems that offer any real techniques or foundations for spiritual mastery.
 
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