SubgroupE-FT186965

MandM

Regular Member
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Ethnic group
Romanian
Y-DNA haplogroup
E-FTB6334
mtDNA haplogroup
H5a
Hi all
I did bigY a while back and got my subgrups that changed quite rapid, but for a while now it hase stayed on E-FT186965 for a while know, but I dont know anything about it, how old, is it Greek, Albanian, Serbian,Bulgarian, whuld appriciet any input
 
I have asked them now ,it was a nother group i asked befor that didint awnser, thanks for the tip
 
Maybe the administrators
There can help you ?


P.s
Either wat there are e-v13's in our forum who could help
well they were not really to any help, just pointing out that look at my ancestrial origin on ftdna and some obviuse stuff
 
well they were not really to any help, just pointing out that look at my ancestrial origin on ftdna and some obviuse stuff

Sorry to hear ,
I thoght they could help:rolleyes:
Maybe some e-v13 member here
Can help

P.s
Maybe you should upload to yfull
Maybe that could help
 
Sorry to hear ,
I thoght they could help:rolleyes:
Maybe some e-v13 member here
Can help

P.s
Maybe you should upload to yfull
Maybe that could help

Yeah maby thank
 
Hi all
I did bigY a while back and got my subgrups that changed quite rapid, but for a while now it hase stayed on E-FT186965 for a while know, but I dont know anything about it, how old, is it Greek, Albanian, Serbian,Bulgarian, whuld appriciet any input

At this point a lot of E-V13 subclades can't be fully understood, so everything I write must be taken with a grain of salt. You have one unknown match, no information given, do you know his background? That might be helpful, because he's obviously the closest to you.

Otherwise its for sure that your subclade is from an Southern E-V13 clade, no Northern one. It was in the Balkans most likely since the expansion of Belegis II-Gava/Channelled Ware southward. Most likely it was Daco-Thracian at this time. Later it might have been carried by Moesians, Triballi or being assimilated by Illyrians, like among the Dardanians.
Your TMRCA is with the very clearly Albanian subclades is about Late Antiquity. It might get closer with more samples, or even with your unidentified match, but that's the current situation. Your direct ancestors could have been Roman Vlachs or Illyrians. In any case, its likely they survived the migration period, the Slavic settlement, and at some point your ancestor was assimilated into the Slavs. At which point in time can't be said without more samples. It could have been very early, like when the first Slavs came, now it looks like that, or it could have been later, if new close samples from Albanians or Vlachs would appear, which are not there yet.

Its possible that with a better resolution you would have a match with the Viminacium samples from Roman Serbia, but unfortunately their y-chromosome coverage is rather bad. But what we got is ancestral to your lineage:
I15495 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis E-V13,E-Z1057,E-CTS1273,E-BY3880,E-Z5017,E-Z5016,E-Y3762,E-CTS6377,E-CTS9320

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread...the-Genomic-Fo&p=796838&viewfull=1#post796838

That's upstream of your subclade, so in theory this could be a paternal ancestor of yours ;)

You just have added SNP, being further downstream of E-CTS9320.


I guess your paternal lineage lived in or around Serbia since the Early Iron Age, since Belegis II-Gava:
The influence of the Gava-Belegi? II cultural group was
predominant in the Serbian Danube area during the Late
Bronze Age.

https://www.austriaca.at/0xc1aa5576 0x002debf2.pdf

You can also use this tool, which proves how local your lineage is:
http://scaledinnovation.com/gg/snpTracker.html

But it also needs to be taken with a grain of salt, because its based on the available samples only and this could be corrected with any new ancient or modern DNA samples coming in. Its not written in stone at all and some migration paths are quite wrong. But its still useful and you can use the range filters and stuff to make it more appropriate.

Both your SNP and the tool put you around 0-500 in the common era for your latest shared ancestor with Albanians. That's why I think its rather a Vlach lineage, than an Illyrian-Proto-Albanian one, but like I said, new samples could change that and your unknown match is the first to check.
 
At this point a lot of E-V13 subclades can't be fully understood, so everything I write must be taken with a grain of salt. You have one unknown match, no information given, do you know his background? That might be helpful, because he's obviously the closest to you.
Otherwise its for sure that your subclade is from an Southern E-V13 clade, no Northern one. It was in the Balkans most likely since the expansion of Belegis II-Gava/Channelled Ware southward. Most likely it was Daco-Thracian at this time. Later it might have been carried by Moesians, Triballi or being assimilated by Illyrians, like among the Dardanians.
Your TMRCA is with the very clearly Albanian subclades is about Late Antiquity. It might get closer with more samples, or even with your unidentified match, but that's the current situation. Your direct ancestors could have been Roman Vlachs or Illyrians. In any case, its likely they survived the migration period, the Slavic settlement, and at some point your ancestor was assimilated into the Slavs. At which point in time can't be said without more samples. It could have been very early, like when the first Slavs came, now it looks like that, or it could have been later, if new close samples from Albanians or Vlachs would appear, which are not there yet.
Its possible that with a better resolution you would have a match with the Viminacium samples from Roman Serbia, but unfortunately their y-chromosome coverage is rather bad. But what we got is ancestral to your lineage:
That's upstream of your subclade, so in theory this could be a paternal ancestor of yours ;)
You just have added SNP, being further downstream of E-CTS9320.
I guess your paternal lineage lived in or around Serbia since the Early Iron Age, since Belegis II-Gava:
[
You can also use this tool, which proves how local your lineage is:
But it also needs to be taken with a grain of salt, because its based on the available samples only and this could be corrected with any new ancient or modern DNA samples coming in. Its not written in stone at all and some migration paths are quite wrong. But its still useful and you can use the range filters and stuff to make it more appropriate.
Both your SNP and the tool put you around 0-500 in the common era for your latest shared ancestor with Albanians. That's why I think its rather a Vlach lineage, than an Illyrian-Proto-Albanian one, but like I said, new samples could change that and your unknown match is the first to check.
Thank you for all the info will go true the links you provited.
Unfortunately i dont nnow anthing about the one who hase unknown origin, i have tried to find him in groups on ftdna but with no luck, I hope he will soon change so we can see his origin.
Very nice guess with the Vlach, me and my family are Vlach from Serbia. Hopefully when the reich lab paper comes out, there will be holes that we can fall in :)
 
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Could you provide the YFull nomenclature of the subclade?

If you found out the name of the subclade on YFull, try using these tools:

https://phylogeographer.com/scripts/heatmap.php
https://phylogeographer.com/scripts/diversitymap.php

One is a frequency heatmap. Telling you the per capita distribution over geographic region of your subclade and its subbranches.
The other is even better at pinpointing possible origin, as it tells you the diversity over certain areas, the more diversity, the more time it had to mutate, the more time it had to mutate in a certain region, the likelier the region is to be the point of origin. This is better than the heatmap because it avoids demographic shift biases, like founder effects, and focuses on regions that have the most diversity.

Those two tools, and the appropriate images should give you a decent picture of your subclade.
 
Could you provide the YFull nomenclature of the subclade?

If you found out the name of the subclade on YFull, try using these tools:


One is a frequency heatmap. Telling you the per capita distribution over geographic region of your subclade and its subbranches.
The other is even better at pinpointing possible origin, as it tells you the diversity over certain areas, the more diversity, the more time it had to mutate, the more time it had to mutate in a certain region, the likelier the region is to be the point of origin. This is better than the heatmap because it avoids demographic shift biases, like founder effects, and focuses on regions that have the most diversity.

Those two tools, and the appropriate images should give you a decent picture of your subclade.

Sorry but i dont know what the nomenclature is,could you give me an exemplet of how it looks, and last time i looked my subclade was not in Yfull
 
I love how Riverman just spams his nonsense "Daco-Thracian" history (everywhere) without even asking OP which part of Serbia his paternal line hails from.
 
Sorry but i dont know what the nomenclature is,could you give me an exemplet of how it looks, and last time i looked my subclade was not in Yfull

I would have done it, and shown you the maps if I could. Could you tell me your whole path? Like say mine is J2 J-M102 J-Z534 J-Z1825 J-Z593 J-M241 J-L283 J-Z622 J-Z600 J-Z2509 J-Z585 J-Z615 J-Z597 J-Z2507 J-Z638 J-Z1297 J-Z1295 J-Y21878 J-FT29003

Say before Y21878 was on Yfull, when the first guy got assigned Y21878, there was no way for anyone to search such a clade online since it was novell. But one could search the clade just upstream, Z1295.
Now if you can figure out the immediate clade above yours, and input that in the tools I provided the result should be still revealing.


If you fall under this. This looks pre-Slavic, Bosnian region related.
https://phylogeographer.com/scripts/diversitymap.php?newlookup=E-A24066

If you fall under this. This looks proto-Albanian related.
https://phylogeographer.com/scripts/diversitymap.php?newlookup=E-BY4459

I would ask someone on the Serbian FTDNA project to interpret your results and tell you where you fall exactly based on ISOG.
Or, since you did Big Y, it is a marginal investment to sign up for Y-full and let them keep your result up to date.



Edit: I did some more digging, if this is right upstream of you then the clade itself was around Albania, Kosovo, Macedonia around 200CE.

https://phylogeographer.com/scripts/diversitymap.php?newlookup=E-Y97307

I came to this upstream subclade after inputting your SNP here http://scaledinnovation.com/gg/snpTracker.html, going upstream and inputting that in the tools I provided earlier.
Hope this helps.
Also take everything you read on these forums with a grain of salt and do your own research (y)
 
Hi Gedzo, if it helps I?m myself E-V13>>CTS9320>Z17107>Z38456>BY4461. Another thing that might help you is your ancestor?s or clans place of origin. For instance, if you?re originally from Montenegro it will be a good starting point to figure out what you?re looking for. Below you can find a tree (don?t know if it?s updated) created for Albanians of the Z17107 cluster.
E-Z5017.png

276e6ae2-c8e5-45eb-8eb7-51b6ab0f44ed
 
I would have done it, and shown you the maps if I could. Could you tell me your whole path? Like say mine is
Say before Y21878 was on Yfull, when the first guy got assigned Y21878, there was no way for anyone to search such a clade online since it was novell. But one could search the clade just upstream, Z1295.
Now if you can figure out the immediate clade above yours, and input that in the tools I provided the result should be still revealing.
If you fall under this. This looks pre-Slavic, Bosnian region related.
If you fall under this. This looks proto-Albanian related.
I would ask someone on the Serbian FTDNA project to interpret your results and tell you where you fall exactly based on ISOG.
Or, since you did Big Y, it is a marginal investment to sign up for Y-full and let them keep your result up to date.
Edit: I did some more digging, if this is right upstream of you then the clade itself was around Albania, Kosovo, Macedonia around 200CE.
I came to this upstream subclade after inputting your SNP here [, going upstream and inputting that in the tools I provided earlier.
Hope this helps.
Also take everything you read on these forums with a grain of salt and do your own research (y)
thinks its this and I hope its the right, i took all the ones i was positiv on ftdna.
E-FT186965-E-Y97307-E-BY4465-E-BY4459-E-Z38456-E-Y30991-E-Z17107-E-CTS9320-E-SK888-E-Z5016-E-Z5017-E-BY3880-E-CTS5856-E-V13 it goes further back but doing this on cellphone if you eant more i can do it when I come home on my computer..
Thank you for the info tou provided and for takiing your time to look
 
I love how Riverman just spams his nonsense "Daco-Thracian" history (everywhere) without even asking OP which part of Serbia his paternal line hails from.
our ancestors came from East Serbina and moved to south Banat vojvodina in the 1700 somthing i can only trace back my paternel line to 1765
 
Hi Gedzo, if it helps I�m myself E-V13>>CTS9320>Z17107>Z38456>BY4461. Another thing that might help you is your ancestor�s or clans place of origin. For instance, if you�re originally from Montenegro it will be a good starting point to figure out what you�re looking for. Below you can find a tree (don�t know if it�s updated) created for Albanians of the Z17107 cluster.
Our ancestors came to south Banat somewere between 1700-1765 from East Serbia, befor that I dont know
 
thinks its this and I hope its the right, i took all the ones i was positiv on ftdna.
E-FT186965-E-Y97307-E-BY4465-E-BY4459-E-Z38456-E-Y30991-E-Z17107-E-CTS9320-E-SK888-E-Z5016-E-Z5017-E-BY3880-E-CTS5856-E-V13 it goes further back but doing this on cellphone if you eant more i can do it when I come home on my computer..
Thank you for the info tou provided and for takiing your time to look
Ok, so just like me you?re also Y97307, meaning we have a common ancestor minimum 1700 years ago, but for sure you?ll have more information downstream which could bring us closer (or not).

My clan is from North Western Albania and originates from Montenegro, but it?s a Western tribe that still retains memory and connections to Albanians from Montenegro, as well as our dialect, clothes, and regional traditions are purely Western related, as opposed to Eastern ones like the ones from Kosovo, that although live next to us, still have an Easternized dialect for example.

Having said that, I?m assuming there?s a possibility your family came from the West (Montenegro) too.

Check on the bottom left of the tree.
E-Z5017.png
 
Ok, so just like me you�re also Y97307, meaning we have a common ancestor minimum 1700 years ago, but for sure you�ll have more information downstream which could bring us closer (or not).
My clan is from North Western Albania and originates from Montenegro, but it�s a Western tribe that still retains memory and connections to Albanians from Montenegro, as well as our dialect, clothes, and regional traditions are purely Western related, as opposed to Eastern ones like the ones from Kosovo, that although live next to us, still have an Easternized dialect for example.
Having said that, I�m assuming there�s a possibility your family came from the West (Montenegro) too.
Check on the bottom left of the tree.
How interesting! That i have read about the vlach people in Serbia is that they were more south in the early medieval, like in Kosovo and South West Serbia todays Sandzak, could be possible it went furthur in to Montenegro.But when tsar Stefan Dusan came to power his laws were not favourble for the vlach, so we migrated to Eastbalkan todays Romania and East Serbia were they lived for about 200 years, and thats why Vlach in Serbia have very similar or almost identical dialect as West Romanians, then when Hungary hade NorthSerbia "Vojvodina" they offert lot of land to the vlach people so many movied there, but they were not used to work with the land becouse they were sheep herders, so many went back to east serbia but some of us stayd
 
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thinks its this and I hope its the right, i took all the ones i was positiv on ftdna.
E-FT186965-E-Y97307-E-BY4465-E-BY4459-E-Z38456-E-Y30991-E-Z17107-E-CTS9320-E-SK888-E-Z5016-E-Z5017-E-BY3880-E-CTS5856-E-V13 it goes further back but doing this on cellphone if you eant more i can do it when I come home on my computer..
Thank you for the info tou provided and for takiing your time to look

Nice. So it seems my edit was right. Here is the images after using the tools. Definitively the SNP has some connection to the Albanian region around 200CE.

babH0Jx.png

3bWgIC6.png

1) Diversity Map 2) Frequency Heatmap 3) SNP Tracker
fGpt3Vl.png
 
Nice. So it seems my edit was right. Here is the images after using the tools. Definitively the SNP has some connection to the Albanian region around 200CE.
1) Diversity Map 2) Frequency Heatmap 3) SNP Tracker
So what do we get from this info, that thats particilar time in my ancestors life were illyrian, albanian, still vlach or somthing else?? Or just hard to say with the facts that we have today
 

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