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What make the Cimmerians Iranics? Your post doesn't even have an argument. Please, do not respond if you aren't not willing to use any.
The economy was mixed agriculture and livestock breeding. The historical Cimmerians have been suggested as descended from this culture.
A study on DNA variation among ancient Europeans found that, of the 6 samples extracted from Srubna culture sites for whom a Y-DNA hapogroup could be tested, all belonged to haplogroup R1a, and four of them to subclade R1a-Z93, which is common among modern-day Indo-Iranians.[2]
It isn't possible to identify the Cimmerians as the bearers of any specific archaeological culture in the regionthe Srubna culture is well known by any reliable scientists to be proto/pre-Cimmerian
Has been proposed either Thracian or Iranic.Cimmerian language has been identified either as Iranic or a binding link of Iranic_Thracian. Though Iranic has more weight to it and the Thracian connection comes likely from the fact that several Thracian tribes are Scythian or Scythian like descend and therefore Thracians are close to Indo_Iranians altogether.
The Srubna culture is clearly connected to Andronovo, Sintashta, Kura Araxes and especially Yaz culture. Read through the net and studies.
Now the final prove is genetic. Srubna culture dna has been extracted. The samples from this proto-Cimmerian culture belonged predominantly to the Indo_Iranian R1a-z93 branch, which nowhere else beside Indo_Iranians and their genetic descends found.
Even the Getae becomed Iranians? or Massagetae? even their space of settlement isn't properly found,speaking on the Massagetae,yet you know their "original" language.Cimmerian is now an obviously extinct Iranic branch and the only reason why there is any connection to Thracians is because A: they were neighbors B: Thracians were a tribal confederation almost half of them made up of Scythian related groups in fact the biggest group, the Getae are probably descend or related to the Iranic Massagetae (Big/Strong Getae) east of the Caspian. And C: Thracian on it self is likely the closest Indo_European branch to Indo_Iranian. If it wasn't extinct today
You provided no facts.Next time you dispute my words by claiming there is no argument behind it, make sure you are not disputing obvious facts.
That's a comment which is inaccurate, imo. First of all, it wasn't thought that everything was invented in Mesopotamia; it was thought that everything was invented in the Middle East. You know, "Ex oriente lux". It's definitely true for agriculture and metallurgy. The wheel may have been invented in FB, or it may have been invented in the Middle East, or it may have been simultaneously developed in both cases. In my opinion, that's about all that can objectively be determined at this stage.
Second of all, significant developments indeed took place in the vicinity of the Tigris-Euphrates, including some forms of agriculture and metallurgy.
If you doubt any of the above use our search engine. I've provided citations ad nauseam.
As to the rest of the post, I agree. A chariot is indeed a rather light construction, with spoked wheels and barely room for two people. It had to be that way for them to attain the speed which made them apt for war. You can't fight from a lumbering "war cart" with solid wooden wheels. There's also no way on earth that people could live in a chariot.
This whole idea that chariots had anything to do with Corded Ware or other early Indo-European movements into Europe was pushed by internet people peddling a vastly over-simplified and incorrect narrative. The map which Coriolan provided makes it crystal clear.
@Goga,
Neither I nor anyone else has to prove a negative. Sorry, but that's not how it works. The person proposing a theory has to prove it; you haven't proved yours. All you have is your desire that this be the case.
As for me, so far as I can see at present everything points to an origin in Sintashta based on current evidence. If evidence comes to light placing the earliest chariot somewhere else then of course my opinion will change.
Cimmerian is now an obviously extinct Iranic branch and the only reason why there is any connection to Thracians is because A: they were neighbors B: Thracians were a tribal confederation almost half of them made up of Scythian related groups in fact the biggest group, the Getae are probably descend or related to the Iranic Massagetae (Big/Strong Getae) east of the Caspian. And C: Thracian on it self is likely the closest Indo_European branch to Indo_Iranian. If it wasn't extinct today.
List kings of the Kassites with Iranian names: Kadashman , Kashtiliashu , Meli-Shipak , Karaindash etc. are all IRANIAN (Aryan) names. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KassitesGoga, let me know the Iranic names of the Cassite kings... if you can.
For the pretended gods naned Annunaki... everybody knows they were not...
Karaindash
Your chauvinism may get you mad if you are taking pride of fantasies.
You don't get it. Let say I lie and do claim that I'm the son God, it is up to me to prove it that I'm a son of God. Other people don't have to disprove it.@Goga,
Neither I nor anyone else has to prove a negative. Sorry, but that's not how it works. The person proposing a theory has to prove it; you haven't proved yours. All you have is your desire that this be the case.
It is you who spread mistakes and is embarrassing thee Kurds.Why are you even discussing with him, if you by now should exactly know how he ticks. I have stopped even reading his comments, sometimes I ask myself if he is doing this to embarrass the Kurds. He doesn't understand that those ancient people are not Kurds but that Kurds inherited elements of these ancient people. Alone the Medes were a confederation of several Iranic and Hurrian related tribes.
I'm not sure, but weren't the Summerians known before it was even known that agriculture developped in SE Anatolia before?
Long time ago, when I went to high school, we didn't learn anything about Anatolia, or about the Natufians.
I hope they've adjusted the program by now.
And what about domesticated animals? Do we allready know? As haplo R2 has been identified as part of Iran neolithic I wouldn't be surprised if pre-domestication of goats happened in the Kupruk area in northern Afghanistan and that these people moved from there into the Zagros mountains.
Metallurgy we don't know either. It could be southern Iran, it could be Serbia or anywhere in between.
Before discoveries by Russian archeologists became known in the west, charriots were supposed to be invented in Mesopotamia.
Appearantly there are still people who don't want to believe that.
As is clear from this material, the Kassites spoke a language without a genetic relationship to any other known tongue
Animal domestication was being experimented with in the Zagros mountains, but actual animal domestication took place in various areas and times, but always in the general area of the Fertile Crescent:
I don't know the dates for this hypothetical early goat domestication in Afghanistan, the direction of the flow of the technology, or whether they were actually domesticating the goats through selective breeding or just herding wild goats. As I told Goga, we go based on the evidence we have, and not speculations that might accord better with our prejudices.
the Mitanni spoke a Hurrite language
I only mentioned that the horse trainer used Indic terms
please read what I write
I'll do like Berun, I'll take e break
they are non-semitic anatolian language and not related to any south-caucasus language
in map......orange = ancient anatolian languages
yellow = early semitic languages
green = belongs to "iranic" group og languages
orange are the Hittites after the fall of the Mitanni, Anatolian indeed
green are the Assyrians, Semitic, not Iranic
You are clearly NOT familiar with the Iranic/Aryan language.@Goga, just stop trollling, or just give up the hard drug that you take... how in thr world you say that such and such names are Iranic without any etymo, and then you link to Kassites in a wiki page which moreover copies Encyclopaedia Iranica:
And thereafter you are capable to defend the reality of the Annunaki even if being ETs. Wow. For better you need to give up drugs.
Yes, things change. Just an opportune digression: a bit more than 20 years ago, people still thought that chariot warfare was pioneered in eastern Anatolia, and not before the middle of the seventeenth century B.C. See:
Only a few personal names in the Cimmerian language have survived in Assyrian inscriptions:
- Te-ush-pa-a; according to the Hungarian linguist János Harmatta, it goes back to Old Iranian Tavis-paya "swelling with strength".[4] Mentioned in the annals of Esarhaddon, has been compared to the Hurrian war deity Teshub;[citation needed] others interpret it as Iranian, comparing the Achaemenid name Teispes (Herodotus 7.11.2).
- Dug-dam-mei (Dugdammê) king of the Ummân-Manda (nomads) appears in a prayer of Ashurbanipal to Marduk, on a fragment at the British Museum. According to professor Harmatta, it goes back to Old Iranian Duγda-maya "giving happiness".[4] Other spellings include Dugdammi, and Tugdammê. Edwin M. Yamauchi also interprets the name as Iranian, citing Ossetic Tux-domæg "Ruling with Strength."[21] The name appears corrupted to Lygdamis in Strabo 1.3.21.
- Sandaksatru, son of Dugdamme. This is an Iranian reading of the name, and Manfred Mayrhofer (1981) points out that the name may also be read as Sandakurru. Mayrhofer likewise rejects the interpretation of "with pure regency" as a mixing of Iranian and Indo-Aryan. Ivancik suggests an association with the Anatolian deity Sanda. According to Professor J. Harmatta, it goes back to Old Iranian Sanda-Kuru "Splendid Son".[4] Kur/Kuru is still used as "son" in the Kurdish languages, and in modified form in Persian as korr, for the male offspring of horses.
The Massagetae, or Massageteans (Greek: Μασσαγέται, lat. Massagetai),[1] were an ancient Eastern Iranian nomadic confederation,[2][3][4][5][6] who inhabited the steppes of Central Asia, north-east of the Caspian Sea (in modern Turkmenistan, western Uzbekistan, and southern Kazakhstan). The Massagetae are known primarily from the writings of Herodotus who described the Massagetae as living on a sizeable portion of the great plain east of the Caspian Sea.[7]
[1.215] In their dress and mode of living the Massagetae resemble the Scythians. They fight both on horseback and on foot, neither method is strange to them: they use bows and lances, but their favourite weapon is the battle-axe. Their arms are all either of gold or brass. For their spear-points, and arrow-heads, and for their battle-axes, they make use of brass; for head-gear, belts, and girdles, of gold. So too with the caparison of their horses, they give them breastplates of brass, but employ gold about the reins, the bit, and the cheek-plates. They use neither iron nor silver, having none in their country; but they have brass and gold in abundance.
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