Immigration The Lives of German Turks


i think that is accurate and yes it is a bit frightening. its a developement that is taking place also in other parts of europe right now, maybe also in america. but keep in mind, while the far right is gaining ground in some parts of germany it is still far away from beeing the majority and also not all who vote for the afd are racist. in addition i think there are about 30-40% people with migrant background in 10-20 years in germany.
so the nazis will probably not march again soon like the guy says in the article. the danger is coming more from potential terror attacks like the one in Halle from a few weeks ago.
we really have to get away from this idea that ethnicity is an important factor for a persons or nations identity in the future. a lot of this is coming from the fear to lose the identity.
 
I am against any kind of discrimination for any ethnicity or race! But in case of Germany I am not sure ! its a small country territorialy, very densly populated, and in my opinion should not be the host country of the pour. Any foreigner going o live there, including my own who are a sizable chunk of foreign population, disturbs their ethnic fabric, which is distinct from other cultures. Turks and my own people when chose Germany to work should think of going back to their countries when is time for retirement. England left the union because it was on way its population being replaced by newcomers.
So my point is no matter how bad the situation of emigrants is in Germany, Germans are overwhelmed by foreigners and at least we should recognize their right to live in their own country. America can afford keeping the emigrants becase territorialy is 30 times Bigger rthan Germany.
 
I am against any kind of discrimination for any ethnicity or race! But in case of Germany I am not sure ! its a small country territorialy, very densly populated, and in my opinion should not be the host country of the pour. Any foreigner going o live there, including my own who are a sizable chunk of foreign population, disturbs their ethnic fabric, which is distinct from other cultures. Turks and my own people when chose Germany to work should think of going back to their countries when is time for retirement. England left the union because it was on way its population being replaced by newcomers.
So my point is no matter how bad the situation of emigrants is in Germany, Germans are overwhelmed by foreigners and at least we should recognize their right to live in their own country. America can afford keeping the emigrants becase territorialy is 30 times Bigger rthan Germany.

That's all irrelevant. It doesn't excuse to any degree whatsoever what the article describes.

The U.S. may be larger but we also take in many more migrants, legal or illegal, and we have our own underclass which eats up billions.

This is an old story repeated.
 
That's all irrelevant. It doesn't excuse to any degree whatsoever what the article describes.

The U.S. may be larger but we also take in many more migrants, legal or illegal, and we have our own underclass which eats up billions.

This is an old story repeated.

First the Turks in Germany are not all Turks. Many are Kurds from Turkey who in Paper are Turks, in reality are something else. Also many Gypsies, and other ethnicities carrying Turkish passports. Many times the ethnic strife between Turks and Kurds spills on the streets of Germany. Why Germany has to deal with it.? Dont think Turks are all nice, hard working guys. Many are involved in Afghan heroin trade and as such one should be aware of their presence. If you have kids and you are in right mind should try hard to keep kids out of Turkish friends. Otherwise they could end up as heroin consumers. Germans are aware of all nationalities in Germany, not just Turks. Even though this article is focused on Turks, in the same basket are Albanians, Yugoslavs, Arabs and others. I dont have to do the defense attorney for Germany, since I am not one of them, but in reality they need to be aware of foreigners
 
My uncle was an engineer(under general Patton) with the US Army corp of engineers who essentially rebuilt Germany following WW 2 (Marshall Plan). The Germans should be thankful they even exist after the atrocities they committed during WW 2. If anything they should be embracing foreigners particularly Easterners and there is absolutely no room for fascist sentiments in that country (or any other for that matter). My bigger question is why should poor countries (like Greece) be burdened with an influx of immigrants from war torn countries (like Syria) and Germany behave like a spoiled privileged child.
 
That's all irrelevant. It doesn't excuse to any degree whatsoever what the article describes.

The U.S. may be larger but we also take in many more migrants, legal or illegal, and we have our own underclass which eats up billions.

This is an old story repeated.

The US has an advantage of 300 years of experience absorbing and integrating large numbers of immigrants. It's never been easy, as the anti-German discrimination of our early history attests. It's harder when the cultural gulf is great, which I suspect the problem is with absorbing Muslim immigrants, especially when they come from very poor, technologically backward countries. The other great problem Europe has is that many have a bi-polar immigration situation, which is far harder to manage than a multi-polar one.
 
My uncle was an engineer(under general Patton) with the US Army corp of engineers who essentially rebuilt Germany following WW 2 (Marshall Plan). The Germans should be thankful they even exist after the atrocities they committed during WW 2. If anything they should be embracing foreigners particularly Easterners and there is absolutely no room for fascist sentiments in that country (or any other for that matter). My bigger question is why should poor countries (like Greece) be burdened with an influx of immigrants from war torn countries (like Syria) and Germany behave like a spoiled privileged child.

I'm by no means in favor of unrestricted, undocumented immigration by low skilled people to industrialized, technologically based countries where these people will have difficulty supporting themselves, whether it's the U.S. or Europe.

My parents (and I) had to have medical tests, they were checked for undesirable political associations, my father had to prove we would be supported by family members until he could find work or he had to have a certain amount of money, had marketable skills which were in demand, and on and on.

That's all well and fine.

However, in the case of Germany, France, Belgium, etc., decades ago they permitted migration by these kinds of migrants because at the time they needed them. Now they don't.

In the interim children were born who speak only German or French properly, who know life only in Europe, who have married Germans and had children with them.

What did these countries think would happen? People are people, propinquity is a powerful thing.

The article is addressing the problems of a particular population: children of mixed ancestry (Turkish and German), born and educated in Germany who want to be German, considered themselves or want to consider themselves German, but are taunted, harassed, and in some cases in fear of their lives. Mixed couples are increasingly facing the same kind of treatment. A woman can't go into a restaurant or nightclub because her husband has black hair?

It's like Jim Crow in the American south.

How could some of you think this is acceptable???

They chose to let them in, but now they don't like it. What are they going to do, have another Kristallnacht? Pogroms in the street, against Turks this time, not Jews? Maybe round them up in internment camps again?

The more things change, the more things stay the same beneath the surface.

Italy and Greece are the countries who have the most undocumented immigrants by FAR, often because these people are drowning as their barely sea worthy boats sink, and they don't let them drown. They have far fewer resources than the Germans to deal with it also, but the other Union countries don't give a damn and don't want it to be their problem. Just what the hell was the European Union supposed to be about again?

As for the Gypsies, maybe the second try will work? Is that it?

Some immigrants, or low skilled natives for that matter, turn to crime. It's true of a lot of nationalities, right Tutkun??? So, I don't see how it makes sense to throw stones at Turks because some of their people do it.
 
My point is that it is very hard to create a multi-ethnic, multi-cultural country. The US is perhaps the most multi-everything country in the world and every day illustrates the issues that remain unresolved. We should be understanding of the problems faced by countries that have little or no experience in absorbing immigrants. The problem is that the government in Germany handled things poorly when they created this immigration flood and then berated their own people for having qualms about the results. It would have been far better if the peoples' concerns had been addressed, or at least acknowledged. Perhaps then, feeling they had been heard, the people would be more cooperative in resolving the issue (I can dream).

By the way, I'm choosing to ignore Tutkun.
 
I'm by no means in favor of unrestricted, undocumented immigration by low skilled people to industrialized, technologically based countries where these people will have difficulty supporting themselves, whether it's the U.S. or Europe.

My parents (and I) had to have medical tests, they were checked for undesirable political associations, my father had to prove we would be supported by family members until he could find work or he had to have a certain amount of money, had marketable skills which were in demand, and on and on.

That's all well and fine.

However, in the case of Germany, France, Belgium, etc., decades ago they permitted migration by these kinds of migrants because at the time they needed them. Now they don't.

In the interim children were born who speak only German or French properly, who know life only in Europe, who have married Germans and had children with them.

What did these countries think would happen? People are people, propinquity is a powerful thing.

The article is addressing the problems of a particular population: children of mixed ancestry (Turkish and German), born and educated in Germany who want to be German, considered themselves or want to consider themselves German, but are taunted, harassed, and in some cases in fear of their lives. Mixed couples are increasingly facing the same kind of treatment. A woman can't go into a restaurant or nightclub because her husband has black hair?

It's like Jim Crow in the American south.

How could some of you think this is acceptable???

They chose to let them in, but now they don't like it. What are they going to do, have another Kristallnacht? Pogroms in the street, against Turks this time, not Jews? Maybe round them up in internment camps again?

The more things change, the more things stay the same beneath the surface.

Italy and Greece are the countries who have the most undocumented immigrants by FAR, often because these people are drowning as their barely sea worthy boats sink, and they don't let them drown. They have far fewer resources than the Germans to deal with it also, but the other Union countries don't give a damn and don't want it to be their problem. Just what the hell was the European Union supposed to be about again?

As for the Gypsies, maybe the second try will work? Is that it?

Some immigrants, or low skilled natives for that matter, turn to crime. It's true of a lot of nationalities, right Tutkun??? So, I don't see how it makes sense to throw stones at Turks because some of their people do it.

In one Albanian tv there was a group of Albanian students complaining about discrimination in Germany. Among other there was a very beautiful Albanian girl who did not get to rent an apartment in Munich even though she was born in Germany and was a citizen of that country. The owner of the apartment asked her what was her last name, since she could pass as a German in her look. So she told them their nationality and the answer was negative. She also explained the reason of refusal. Many Albanians are involved in theft, so Germans want to avoid having Albanians where they live. So the point is :some Albanians steal, why take the chance of bringing them in German areas"
So, to make my point: Its not only Turks discriminated, all foreigners are. But blame is not all on Germans, the foreigners also bring crime.
On a positive side: All students of that tv program highlighted the fact that German labor market was fair, if capable job is always offered.
 
My point is that it is very hard to create a multi-ethnic, multi-cultural country. The US is perhaps the most multi-everything country in the world and every day illustrates the issues that remain unresolved. We should be understanding of the problems faced by countries that have little or no experience in absorbing immigrants. The problem is that the government in Germany handled things poorly when they created this immigration flood and then berated their own people for having qualms about the results. It would have been far better if the peoples' concerns had been addressed, or at least acknowledged. Perhaps then, feeling they had been heard, the people would be more cooperative in resolving the issue (I can dream).

By the way, I'm choosing to ignore Tutkun.

I take your point.

I should do the same. :)

Shouldn't have responded to two people in one post. Sorry.
 
I disagree with this news. I am not German, but I lived in Germany for a few years. Germans are some of the most open-minded people I know. If a foreigner tries to adapt to their culture, they accept you very easily.

The people that complain about Germans are usually (I would say overwhelmingly) people who do not want to adapt to a new society and a new way of doing things, and they would like that everything is "like at home", and when it is not, they become angry.

These people in the report should complain less about others, and start looking inward.
 
It seems that Greeks and Italians that emigrated to Germany did not have the same problems as other nationalities. They assimilated rather smoothly. It seems to me that nationalities that isolated themselves have had a harder time fitting in. It does not help that Turks have a different religion.
My Dutch friends complained that the Turkish immigrants there were a burden to the social security system because they tended to have many more children than the Dutch and the wives did not work, thus not contributing to social security. I guess each child was subsidized so the Turkish families collected more than they contributed. Let's just say they were not well liked.
Americans did not exactly lay out the red carpet for the Poles, the Italians, the Irish and the Greeks either.
 
My uncle was an engineer(under general Patton) with the US Army corp of engineers who essentially rebuilt Germany following WW 2 (Marshall Plan). The Germans should be thankful they even exist after the atrocities they committed during WW 2. If anything they should be embracing foreigners particularly Easterners and there is absolutely no room for fascist sentiments in that country (or any other for that matter). My bigger question is why should poor countries (like Greece) be burdened with an influx of immigrants from war torn countries (like Syria) and Germany behave like a spoiled privileged child.

can you explain how germany acts like a spoiled child? and how big is the burden that greece or the other poor countries have to carry, not based on theoretical laws but based on what is happening?
and why see the problem only in germany? i understand the EU is dealing with the distribution of refugees really bad right now but there are lots of other countries in the EU not just germany.
 
I'm by no means in favor of unrestricted, undocumented immigration by low skilled people to industrialized, technologically based countries where these people will have difficulty supporting themselves, whether it's the U.S. or Europe.

My parents (and I) had to have medical tests, they were checked for undesirable political associations, my father had to prove we would be supported by family members until he could find work or he had to have a certain amount of money, had marketable skills which were in demand, and on and on.

That's all well and fine.

However, in the case of Germany, France, Belgium, etc., decades ago they permitted migration by these kinds of migrants because at the time they needed them. Now they don't.

they still need them for work and just for the fact that the population is shrinking.

In the interim children were born who speak only German or French properly, who know life only in Europe, who have married Germans and had children with them.

What did these countries think would happen? People are people, propinquity is a powerful thing.

The article is addressing the problems of a particular population: children of mixed ancestry (Turkish and German), born and educated in Germany who want to be German, considered themselves or want to consider themselves German, but are taunted, harassed, and in some cases in fear of their lives. Mixed couples are increasingly facing the same kind of treatment. A woman can't go into a restaurant or nightclub because her husband has black hair?

this is not uncommon in many other places in europe now. it is not just a german thing and it is not the same in all parts of germany. you act as if whole germany is far right but that is not reality.

They chose to let them in, but now they don't like it. What are they going to do, have another Kristallnacht? Pogroms in the street, against Turks this time, not Jews? Maybe round them up in internment camps again?

The more things change, the more things stay the same beneath the surface.

my guess is that those who don't like them and don't want them now because of racist reasons, never wanted them in the country in the frist place. but their number is not high enough to have a real effect and maybe they were less likely to open their mouth in the past. again, differentiate, it sounds as if whole germany is voting for the far right.

Italy and Greece are the countries who have the most undocumented immigrants by FAR, often because these people are drowning as their barely sea worthy boats sink, and they don't let them drown. They have far fewer resources than the Germans to deal with it also, but the other Union countries don't give a damn and don't want it to be their problem. Just what the hell was the European Union supposed to be about again?

i tried to find a number for illegals in italy but couldn't find one. only that salvini was talking about 500000-600000 illegals arriving in italy since 2015. but he had to drastically reduce it to something around 90'000 at max because most have left italy again or requested asylum.
 
The Germans are a very ethnocentric people and despite the thin veneer of tolerance exhibited post-war, I don't think they've ever lost their deeply rooted sense of "Germaness"

Just an observation
 
I wouldn't fit in well in Germany, and I am actually part German. My German ancestors were Lutheran, and Luther worked with the German princes to get his church powerful allies, so German Lutherans tend to uncomplainingly acquiesce to governmental authorities. I take much more after my English side, from my mother; her family's founder in America, Valentine Whitman Sr., was the grandson of the last man in England to be burned to death for his religious beliefs. The Whitman family tends to libertarian conservatism and distrust of government (save for my black sheep cousin, the Bernie bro); I discussed my descent from Edward Wightman on the 23andMe forum and an English guy commented how he had pushed all of his king's buttons and I thought to myself "Oh, yeah, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree!"
 
The Germans are a very ethnocentric people and despite the thin veneer of tolerance exhibited post-war, I don't think they've ever lost their deeply rooted sense of "Germaness"

Just an observation

and your observation is based on what? if you want to say germans are worse in terms of racism relative to other countries, no, that is definitly not the case. these individual stories tell us it is there and it is more and more accepted. but those are individual stories, if you think this reflects whole germany then first also look at all the racism in for example america. or in italy. it's good to bring it up and discuss it but don't make it so completely one sided and undifferentiated.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...of-italians-in-poll-say-racism-is-justifiable

https://theconversation.com/racism-in-italian-football-reflects-the-everyday-migrant-experience-126054

 
The way the Germans treat these Near Eastern people is on a different scale than anything you see in other western European countries. It's just a fact.

As a young teen age girl I myself was verbally abused (today it would be a hate crime as well as sexual harassment) by a German Swiss government official for asking a question in Italian. Since it "is" after all one of the national languages of Switzerland, I thought I was being polite. When I switched to English there was a turn about. If you're wondering how I know what he said, it went the rounds of the Italian community within minutes, and reached my maternal aunt, whom I was visiting.

Italian migrants in general were horribly treated in Switzerland, and in Germany too. It's only within the last few decades that it's been bearable in Germany, but that's because they have even more "exotic" people upon which to unleash their zenophobic feelings, or even perhaps closer, discomfort and dislike of anyone more "southern", or "darker".

This has nothing to do with German-Americans, of course.

As for America, any such comparison is an absurdity. Leaving aside the fact that any such behavior would get you arrested, if someone did something like these people describe, deny entrance to a club, deny an apartment, taunt on the street, the person doing this would be attacked at least verbally by most people in hearing distance. Some would do more than that. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO COMPARISON. PERIOD.

You can believe anything you want, but that's the reality.
 
The way the Germans treat these Near Eastern people is on a different scale than anything you see in other western European countries. It's just a fact.

As a young teen age girl I myself was verbally abused (today it would be a hate crime as well as sexual harassment) by a German Swiss government official for asking a question in Italian. Since it "is" after all one of the national languages of Switzerland, I thought I was being polite. When I switched to English there was a turn about. If you're wondering how I know what he said, it went the rounds of the Italian community within minutes, and reached my maternal aunt, whom I was visiting.

Italian migrants in general were horribly treated in Switzerland, and in Germany too. It's only within the last few decades that it's been bearable in Germany, but that's because they have even more "exotic" people upon which to unleash their zenophobic feelings, or even perhaps closer, discomfort and dislike of anyone more "southern", or "darker".

This has nothing to do with German-Americans, of course.

As for America, any such comparison is an absurdity. Leaving aside the fact that any such behavior would get you arrested, if someone did something like these people describe, deny entrance to a club, deny an apartment, taunt on the street, the person doing this would be attacked at least verbally by most people in hearing distance. Some would do more than that. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO COMPARISON. PERIOD.

You can believe anything you want, but that's the reality.

no it's not "just a fact".

did you also look up the links i gave? how are those not comparable? if you want i can give more.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/23/travel/racism-travel-italy-study-abroad.html
 

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