The mystery of Lactase Persistence (LP) in Europeans

https://www.google.fr/search?q=Gulf...mD8ex0AX2uoDYAw&ved=0CEEQsAQ&biw=1250&bih=874

any theory suffers from these exceptions.
If Norwegian is very distinctly in dominant feature R1b, it is less fact for Swedish who conceal I1 and a little fewer R1a a lot.
Dautre leaves, the cattle need rich regions with fatty pasture and it corresponds in Europe western and going of the centre of Spain to to the south of the Sweden (effect Gulf Stream).
I think that the addition of several reasons can over a period of 4000 years to have influenced populations is placed side by side and they find a similar result for I2a1 in Spain and different from I2a1 in Sardinia.
They will note representativeness of put together MtDNA H1 er H3 which seems to be dominant features among DF27 and L21, is very represented in suede, north Spain and in Finland with its peaks to Basque / iralndais.
Therefore really genetic neighbourhood, geographical / climatic environment; more the time play an important role.
They also see the presence of T2 who is not tolerant in lactose in the east south of the Europe and the Turkey, Ukraine, and who seems to accompany Y DNA J2 and E1 ; in the opposite the presentation of T* / T1, who is very tolerant in lactose, among the Kurds, bashkirs, Balts, Arab (Druse / Palestinian) and who seems to accompany R1a and J1 and also in the steppes and the Ural R1b / Q1a.
And it seems still in that case to separate the populations of stockbreeders with the populations of farmers.
 
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I agree for the most with you, Martiko; allt the way, the problem after years and years is an autosomals and diet one more than any father's Y or mother's mt HG one (even if mt DNA could be considered as an annexe autosomal stuff by its effects on cells functions)
 
LeBrok said:
I think it is sort of "miracle" that in long winter times up North, when nothing much grows to eat, people can feed dry grass to cows and receive steady supply of dairy products, plus meat.
Click to expand...

Yes that's my guess too, food plus warmth all winter.
 
I was looking for some good data about LP to make sure we are talking all about apples. Surprisingly there is not much out there to be certain. Some maps are created on single gene mutation, and not actual reported or measured LP in people, like this one.

1471-2148-10-36-2-l.jpg


And some use very scarce data like from the table from Wiki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactase_persistence
I made this map using wiki data.

Lactose persistence.jpg
 
thank you! it well seems to correspond with all document which I consulted.
But your second geographical card of tolerance lactose seems to me a bit grotesque and even very in exaggeration, it effaces modulation, the first one is distinctly more real.

The first card would very well seem to overlap with the specific gravity conjugated by H1, H3 and R1b
 
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LeBrok said:
I was looking for some good data about LP to make sure we are talking all about apples. Surprisingly there is not much out there to be certain. Some maps are created on single gene mutation, and not actual reported or measured LP in people, like this one.

1471-2148-10-36-2-l.jpg


And some use very scarce data like from the table from Wiki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactase_persistence
I made this map using wiki data.

View attachment 6210
Click to expand...

Interesting map. It shows (to me anyway) how the Atlantic coast must have been particularly suited to cattle at some point for some reason (and also the Hungarian plain and parts of North India and Arabia (although i think that is camel's milk).

One odd thing is if you take away the dark blue it's almost the Coon Caucasian distribution.
 
There's an article about lactase persistence here.

www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0086251

It indicates that lactase persistence had already reached present levels in a town in Germany about 1000 years ago. Here's a copy of the abstract. I don't know whether this tells us anything about the R1b issue, but it does indicate that really widespread lactase persistance was common before the Black Death, at least in one German town, so the Plague may not have affected the modern extent of lactase persistence in Europe.

"Ruminant milk and dairy products are important food resources in many European, African, and Middle Eastern societies. These regions are also associated with derived genetic variants for lactase persistence. In mammals, lactase, the enzyme that hydrolyzes the milk sugar lactose, is normally down-regulated after weaning, but at least five human populations around the world have independently evolved mutations regulating the expression of the lactase-phlorizin-hydrolase gene. These mutations result in a dominant lactase persistence phenotype and continued lactase tolerance in adulthood. A single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) at C/T-13910 is responsible for most lactase persistence in European populations, but when and where the T-13910 polymorphism originated and the evolutionary processes by which it rose to high frequency in Europe have been the subject of strong debate. A history of dairying is presumed to be a prerequisite, but archaeological evidence is lacking. In this study, DNA was extracted from the dentine of 36 individuals excavated at a medieval cemetery in Dalheim, Germany. Eighteen individuals were successfully genotyped for the C/T-13910 SNP by molecular cloning and sequencing, of which 13 (72%) exhibited a European lactase persistence genotype: 44% CT, 28% TT. Previous ancient DNA-based studies found that lactase persistence genotypes fall below detection levels in most regions of Neolithic Europe. Our research shows that by AD 1200, lactase persistence frequency had risen to over 70% in this community in western Central Europe. Given that lactase persistence genotype frequency in present-day Germany and Austria is estimated at 71–80%, our results suggest that genetic lactase persistence likely reached modern levels before the historic population declines associated with the Black Death, thus excluding plague-associated evolutionary forces in the rise of lactase persistence in this region. This new evidence sheds light on the dynamic evolutionary history of the European lactase persistence trait and its global cultural implications."
 
But how have them made?
There is 3500 BCE or 5500 years old, basques or German either Hungarian or Canadian or Mexican and EU either ......

According to you, the black plague that is stopped to the land borders of the west European , and she would have not wanted disembark in Amsterdam, Bilbao, London ....
However, it is proved that the plague is back in makes its entry in Europa by the ports and with the chips of rats.
 
martiko said:
But how have them made?
There is 3500 BCE or 5500 years old, basques or German either Hungarian or Canadian or Mexican and EU either ......

According to you, the black plague that is stopped to the land borders of the west European , and she would have not wanted disembark in Amsterdam, Bilbao, London ....
However, it is proved that the plague is back in makes its entry in Europa by the ports and with the chips of rats.
Click to expand...

I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say. The article simply addresses the theory that the Black Death may have been a quite recent selector for people with lactase persistence, based on the idea that people who could drink fresh milk might have had a better chance of surviving during a period when many people were ill and suffering from malnutrition as a result of the agricultural system having broken down, because of very high mortality rates caused by the Plague. The results these scientists found may call that theory into question, although this is just one study.
 
"Previous ancient DNA-based studies found that lactase persistence genotypes fall below detection levels in most regions of Neolithic Europe."

Judging by the LP map the best place to look might be along the Atlantic coast.

 
Goga said:
La Braña fella who lived in Europe 7000 years ago was probably lactose intolerant. http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/jan/26/swarthy-blue-eyed-caveman-dna-tooth
Click to expand...

He was also a Mesolithic hunter/gatherer type. I think most of us can agree that lactase persistence developed among people who regularly consumed milk, in other words, people who raised cattle. The question is whether lactase persistence was originally specific to R1b pastoralist types or whether it could have also developed among Neolithic farmers who grew crops and also raised cattle.
 
Thanks for doing the work, Le Brok.

I found those statistics in Wiki a little surprising:
Sicilians-29%
Southern French-35%
Northern Italians-45%
Southern Italians-59%
Portuguese-65%
Central Italians-81%
Northern French-83%
Non-Basque Spaniards 85%
Lebanese-78%

Does anyone know if the Lebanese result is an anomaly or if there are similar levels in other Levantines? Perhaps the lower levels in Turkey are the result of the more recent Turkic incursions?

The Italian results are also surprising in a way, as for example in the huge difference between the Sicilians and the southern Italians. The southern Italian number sort of makes sense in that they do consume a lot of cow's milk cheese in Campania, like mozzarella, and ricotta, and perhaps the sample was taken there, where selection took place because of the rearing of cattle for dairy.

The same could probably be said for Toscana, where, although pecorino sheep's milk cheese is more dominant, they do breed cattle. We even have cowboys in Toscana, in the Maremma, which always seems to amuse my friends.
http://www.invitationtotuscany.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/riding.jpg

However, then I don't understand the number for Northern Italy. There's a tremendous amount of dairying in the north. One of the big divides in Italy between north and south is between the use in traditional cuisines of butter, cream and cheeses like Parmigiano in the north and the more heavily olive oil and pecorino dependent south.

You posted another good map up-thread, which looks a little more nuanced.
http://all-that-is-interesting.com/tag/maps/

Perhaps it more accurately charts where exactly this dip occurs in lactase persistence in southern France and northern Italy. It seems to be south eastern France over into Liguria, while the rest of the north has what I would consider normal levels, taking into account their cuisine. Again, it might just come down to terrain and climate and whether you could or needed to do dairy farming. This is a mountainous area with a Mediterranean micro-climate very different from areas just to their north. The olive and the grape reign here, and the only local cheeses are sheep's milk cheese. It's back-breaking work even to grow those, requiring the extensive terracing of hillsides; keeping a dairy herd would be impossible.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Panorama_agricole_delle_Cinque_Terre.jpg
For what it's worth, R1b levels in Liguria approach 50%.

Do you know if it was based on that one snp again or on actual expressed intolerance?

Ed.You have to scroll down the page at this link in order to see the lactase persistence map.
http://all-that-is-interesting.com/tag/maps/
 
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Angela said:
Thanks for doing the work, Le Brok.

I found those statistics in Wiki a little surprising:
Sicilians-29%
Northern Italians-48%
Southern French-35%
Southern Italians-59%
Portuguese-65%
Central Italians-81%
Northern French-83%
Non-Basque Spaniards 85%
Lebanese-78%

Does anyone know if the Lebanese result is an anomaly or if there are similar levels in other Levantines? Perhaps the lower levels in Turkey are the result of the more recent Turkic incursions?

The Italian results are also surprising in a way, as for example in the huge difference between the Sicilians and the southern Italians. The southern Italian number sort of makes sense in that they do consume a lot of cow's milk cheese in Campania, like mozzarella, and ricotta, and perhaps the sample was taken there, where selection took place because of the rearing of cattle for dairy.

The same could probably be said for Toscana, where, although pecorino sheep's milk cheese is more dominant, they do breed cattle. We even have cowboys in Toscana, in the Maremma, which always seems to amuse my friends.
http://www.invitationtotuscany.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/riding.jpg

However, then I don't understand the number for Northern Italy. There's a tremendous amount of dairying in the north. One of the big divides in Italy between north and south is between the use in traditional cuisines of butter, cream and cheeses like Parmigiano in the north and the more heavily olive oil and pecorino dependent south.

You posted another good map up-thread, which looks a little more nuanced.
http://all-that-is-interesting.com/tag/maps/

Perhaps it more accurately charts where exactly this dip occurs in lactase persistence in southern France and northern Italy. It seems to be south eastern France over into Liguria, while the rest of the north has what I would consider normal levels, taking into account their cuisine. Again, it might just come down to terrain and climate and whether you could or needed to do dairy farming. This is a mountainous area with a Mediterranean micro-climate very different from areas just to their north. The olive and the grape reign here, and the only local cheeses are sheep's milk cheese. It's back-breaking work even to grow those, requiring the extensive terracing of hillsides; keeping a dairy herd would be impossible.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Panorama_agricole_delle_Cinque_Terre.jpg
For what it's worth, R1b levels in Liguria approach 50%.

Do you know if it was based on that one snp again or on actual expressed intolerance?
Click to expand...
Exactly same conclusions here about all the maps. It has hugely surprised me how hard it was to find any statistics related to LP. Even self reporting milk drinking stats are few and in between. There is another problem with self reporting studies with different methodologies used in different countries. For example Russia's LP shows at 50% in some stats and at 15% in others.

Probably the best way to look at LP, at the moment, is through LP alleles stats and maps. This one might be the best, as you noticed, although I wish it had way better resolution.
lactose-tolerance-map.jpg


What is surprising from this map is a fairly low level of LP Steppe area, looks like at 50%. If LP showed up first, in R1 people, in cattle rich steppes, shouldn't LP be for "persistent" there? Especially when considering continuity of grazing and herding cultures in this region. Surely there is a visible 50% LP interesting continues stripe from Black Sea to Pacific Ocean, but honestly, I would expect to see it at 90%.
 
Angela said:
Perhaps the lower levels in Turkey are the result of the more recent Turkic incursions?
Click to expand...
Rather Iranic and South Caucasian than Turkic. It's seems that a huge part of Iranic world is lactose intolerant. That would make sense, because Iranic peoples inhabit mostly the mountainous areas in West to Southwest Asia, where sheep are more widespread than cows.
 
I found an article about consumption of dairy products in Britain during the Neolithic. The researchers checked the organic matter at the bottom of a lot of old pots and determined that people in Britain pretty much abandoned the consumption of sea food in favour of dairy as a source of protein at the start of the Neolithic and the consumption of sea food only returned gradually over a long period of time, peaking in the Late Viking period. A lot of the research was done in the Scottish islands, where one would have expected sea food consumption to have continued. The researchers contrasted their results to finds in the Baltic, where hunting and fishing apparently continued to play an important role during the Neolithic. The conclusion was that different patterns of food consumption occurred in different parts of Europe during the Neolithic, with an almost complete change from fishing to farming (or at least pastoralism) in Britain. I don't know whether this tells us anything about lactase persistence but it may - lactase persistence seems to be particularly high in Britain. The question, to me, would be whether the Mesolithic population in Britain easily developed lactase persistence because of some genetic fluke and/or were substantially replaced by farmers who had already developed lactase persistence or whether the apparently almost exclusive reliance on dairy in Britain pushed the development of lactase persistence. I would guess the former idea is the correct one, since it might explain why the shift to dairy was so complete. The link is here.

rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/281/1780/20132372.full
 
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Aberdeen said:
................or whether the apparently almost exclusive reliance on dairy in Britain pushed the development of lactase persistence. I would guess the former idea is the correct one.................

rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/281/1780/20132372.full
Click to expand...

yes I approved
 
What I was saying is that I think it's more probable that either the Mesolithic population of Britain somehow had more of a propensity to develop lactase persistence than other Mesolithic European populations or that (more likely) there was for some reason a more complete replacement of the Mesolithic population in Britain than in the Baltic, and the incoming population of Neolithic farmers had already developed a degree of lactase persistence. I don't think people would have made such a complete switch to dairy proteins unless at least part of the population either already had lactase persistence or the population somehow had the ability to acquire lactase persistence fairly quickly.
 
Aberdeen said:
What I was saying is that I think it's more probable that either the Mesolithic population of Britain somehow had more of a propensity to develop lactase persistence than other Mesolithic European populations or that (more likely) there was for some reason a more complete replacement of the Mesolithic population in Britain than in the Baltic, and the incoming population of Neolithic farmers had already developed a degree of lactase persistence. I don't think people would have made such a complete switch to dairy proteins unless at least part of the population either already had lactase persistence or the population somehow had the ability to acquire lactase persistence fairly quickly.
Click to expand...
Yes, this complete abandoning of fishing and sea food culture points to population replacement. Meaning that new population already came rich in lactose tolerance and dairy traditions.
 
LeBrok said:
Yes, this complete abandoning of fishing and sea food culture points to population replacement. Meaning that new population already came rich in lactose tolerance and dairy traditions.
Click to expand...

I was trying to consider what other possibilities might explain the situation, but yes, a near complete population replacement by people who already have a high level of lactase persistence would seem to be the only probable explanation, assuming that the research is sound, and it seems to be.
 
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