The spread of various subclades of J2 from the Middle East towards Europe

[Yaan]

Caucasus is not in the Middle East. Dude u do have funny ideas about how genetics works. R1b did originate in the Middle East though(Anatolia).

 

[adamo]

I didn't say he was not italian, I said he's one of those J2a M67 Italians, and M67 originated in the Caucasus, just north of the Middle East. The only reason that I refer to the Caucasus as being the most "northern extension" of the Middle East is because the main countries of the Caucasus (Georgia,Armenia,Azerbaijan) have a genetic composition predominantly similar to the rest of the near east, with haplogroups such as J2 and G2 dominating over there.

 

[adamo]

Yaan according to you y-haplogroups means nothing but it traces a direct paternal descent to a particular point of origin, which for him, leads us to the Caucasus. That doesn't mean "nothing", it reveals to us everything.

 

[Luan]

I didn't say he was not italian, I said he's one of those J2a M67 Italians, and M67 originated in the Caucasus, just north of the Middle East. The only reason that I refer to the Caucasus as being the most "northern extension" of the Middle East is because the main countries of the Caucasus (Georgia,Armenia,Azerbaijan) have a genetic composition predominantly similar to the rest of the near east, with haplogroups such as J2 and G2 dominating over there.

So your orgin are from the Caucasus too, the T haplogroup.

 

[adamo]

No. Haplogroup T as neither highest concentration nor diversity in the Caucasus. It either originated in the levant, or Iran. Or Mesopotamia. Info is still scarce on this hg, more studies must be conducted. Haplogroup G originated in Iran, but e G2 mutation took place in the Caucasus where G2 still dominates the region, and from there G2a spread to Europe via turkey. J2a M67 is a subclade of J2a (predominantly middle eastern J2) that originated in the Caucasus region as well. As for hg T, it has no particular link to the Caucasus other than that certain Armenians and Azeris (low %) may have hg T.

 

[Yaan]

I didn't say he was not italian, I said he's one of those J2a M67 Italians, and M67 originated in the Caucasus, just north of the Middle East. The only reason that I refer to the Caucasus as being the most "northern extension" of the Middle East is because the main countries of the Caucasus (Georgia,Armenia,Azerbaijan) have a genetic composition predominantly similar to the rest of the near east, with haplogroups such as J2 and G2 dominating over there.

Caucasus is J2a,I2 and G2a and Middle East is J1c,J2a,E-V22,E-V12,E-M123 so no they are not the same. And haplogorup tells u nothing, If a Gypsy H guy sleeps with a Norwegian U3 girl in 1254 and they have a child which is half Gypsy half Norwegian and this child goes to Czech republic and since 1270 until 2013 all the people in the family are Czech with the exception of 1 Italian 2 Swedish this people are hard core Czechs and the fact that the male line is the gypsy H, means nothing, absolutely nothing.
Culture, language, mentality, self determination, looks make u what u r . Auto somatical DNA and female lines(carried by the whole of humanity) are also important. Male line tells u that in the down of time ur line was in Caucasus or Mesopotamia, yes it is is cool to know and interesting but it tells u nothing. There are I1 Vikings and I 1 Gypsies, J2 Jews,J2 Balkans etc.etc. So no y haplogroup is 2% of ur DNA and 0% of who u r,majority of people do not know their Y haplogorup and will never know it. Plus u r influenced by so much more haplogorups(all the males in ur MOm family etc.etc)
Also about T- Mesopotamia and Levanat are the home to J2, T comes not from there, but even if it come from there this is Middle East. All haplogorups are connected to Africa and the Middle East.

 

[Christos]

Hi Everyone I included a brief introduction as provided by 23andme (whom analyzed my raw data): J2a1b* is a subgroup of J2 IntroductionHaplogroup J originated in the Near East about 20,000 years ago, at a time when much of the northern hemisphere was uninhabitable due to Ice Age climate conditions. The haplogroup is still common today in the region; but some branches have expanded multiple times to other parts of Eurasia and northern Africa.
More recently the expansion of ancient Greece between the 8th and 4th centuries B.C., the Jewish diaspora and the spread of Islam from Arabia to northern Africa and Spain during the 7th and 8th centuries AD have carried haplogroup J2 around the Mediterranean and throughout much of Europe and the Muslim world.
The Jewish DiasporaSeveral branches of haplogroup J2 spread with the Jewish diaspora from the Middle East into Europe, where the population expanded dramatically from the Middle Ages onward. Haplogroup J2 now reaches levels of about 20 percent among the Ashkenazi Jews of central and eastern Europe, and their descendants in other parts of the world.
J2 and the Spread of AgricultureHaplogroup J2 is especially linked to the spread of agriculture in southern Europe. About 18,000 years ago, J2 arose in the Near East or Anatolia. Just a few thousand years later, early male farmers traversed the Mediterranean Sea, bringing their farming expertise and the J2 haplogroup to Crete, Italy, and Cyprus. But some of these men did not travel as far, instead settling in the Balkan region of present-day Georgia, Greece, and Albania. Today, haplogroup J2a - a branch of J2 - is found in about 11% of Georgians, while J2b2 - another branch - exists in about 15% of Albanians. A specific branch of J2 can also be found in the modern-day descendants of the Phoenicians, a sea-faring civilization that established trade colonies everywhere from Tunisia to Sicily to the Levant about 3,500 years ago.

 

[Christos]

Of course u r Italian. Y haplogorups means nothing,it is the first male in ur line. U r Italian, genetics does not work like this. Plus ur group is also seen in Italy Hope u understand that saying u r not Italian because of ur Y DNA is like saying I am not Italian coz my blood type is AB etc.
2.15% of the Italians have it

@Yaan I am a third generation Italian American and have considered myself of Italian lineage as my paternal grandparents were from Campania and Lazio respectively. However, when you say the Y Haplogroups means nothing, you are incorrect. Although my relatives are "from" Italy the clarification should be where the haplogroup originated. It did not originate in Italy per se but rather farther "east" in the present day Balkans, Anatolia, Middle East. I just wanted to share that clarification. Thank you of course for your feedback!

 

[adamo]

Not the Balkans man, your paternal ancestor came directly from west Asia, the northern Middle East, Armenia/Georgia region. Look at that area on a map, that's where M67 originated I won't repeat it again lol

 

[adamo]

Somewhere near extreme northeastern turkey.

 

[adamo]

J2 originated somewhere between southeastern turkey/northern Syria/northwestern Iraq. Your Clade moved north to near /azerbaijan/Georgia/Armenia/Chechnya; (the Chechens are paternally middle easterners from extreme southern Russia bordering Georgia)

 

[Christos]

@adamo thanks as always for your informative feedback. I sometimes get confused w/Balkans and Caucasus.

 

[adamo]

another interesting group is j2-m92. it is the son of m67. it moved from the heart of the caucasus (where m67 originated) and then headed west wards until reaching western turkey on the agean sea, this is where m92 originated. its highest frequencies + diversity is in western turkey. it also has highest frequency in southern italians. oddly, it is not present in greeks, a purely italo-turkish subclade of j2a. among other undeniable evidence, this solidifies a link of a purely turkey to italy migration.

 

[adamo]

its amazing to see the spread of j2a m410, as it spans from western iran and parts of the middle east to apulia and parts of italy.

 

[Christos]

@adamo It (genealogy) is certainly a work in progress but a fun study just the same. Still researching my paternal line, thus far to the 15th-16th century (Italy), before then....that's the missing link. Thanks as always for your posts.