Theory: I1 originally from Paloithic Cro magnon central Europe not Scandinavia

But where did you get that, that Baltic tribes were I1?
 
i1 might have started in Baltic areas, but it was spread mostly throughout Europe by germanics,it could be paleoethic but its spread never really happen until it came in contact with r1b.
 
But what I don't get is what you consider Germanic? Those R1b that supposedly helped I1 spread around Europe? Where they have picked them up? Have they become Germanic before contact with I1, and gave them their language?

You think red R1 picked up I1 somewhere around Lithuania and took them around?

pathR1b.jpg

 
Latvia is like 6 percent i1 and so is lithuiania,i wonder i1 went west after r1a moved in then went south and more west after contacting r1b.
 
Ike said:
But where did you get that, that Baltic tribes were I1?
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process of elimination by the guy that does I1
 
Ike said:
But what I don't get is what you consider Germanic? Those R1b that supposedly helped I1 spread around Europe? Where they have picked them up? Have they become Germanic before contact with I1, and gave them their language?

You think red R1 picked up I1 somewhere around Lithuania and took them around?

View attachment 5967

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what?
As the ice cap melted , northern european became more habitable, so people moved from south to north, you don't think they they where already in the north of europe and then moved from north to south to fill up void spaces in europe do you?
 
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-1809.2007.00429.x/full

Throughout their history, the populations of the Baltic Sea region have been affected by migrations from both Western and Central Europe and from the east. The region was first settled both from the south-east and from the south soon after the retreat of the continental ice sheet some 12 000 years ago.

The most common Y-DNA (paternal) haplogroup among Estonian men is N, found among 34 percent of those tested, followed by R1a, found in about 32 percent. I1 is found in 15%, R1b in 8%, T in 3.5%, I2* and/or I2a in 3%, E1b1b in 2.5%, J2 in 1%, I2b in 0.5%, and Q in 0.5%.

Only areas on the baltic sea ,southern which have low I1 of less than 10% is latvians and lithuanians
 
Sile said:
what?
As the ice cap melted , northern european became more habitable, so people moved from south to north, you don't think they they where already in the north of europe and then moved from north to south to fill up void spaces in europe do you?
Click to expand...

Off course not. As we know by now I1 originated 5,000 years ago in Scandinavia. My problem is only with the name Germanic. I'm wondering when does something becomes Germanic. When they started speaking IE language or practice their religion or whatever? When were they Germanized? If they were Germanized at some point (3000. B.C. for example) that mens there were some Germans back then to Germanize them. Are those R1b? What defined them as Germans at that moment? Or I1 are the original Germans?

Did I1 got the langauge from R1a and then spread it to R1b, or it was the other way around?
 
Ike said:
Off course not. As we know by now I1 originated 5,000 years ago in Scandinavia. My problem is only with the name Germanic. I'm wondering when does something becomes Germanic. When they started speaking IE language or practice their religion or whatever? When were they Germanized? If they were Germanized at some point (3000. B.C. for example) that mens there were some Germans back then to Germanize them. Are those R1b? What defined them as Germans at that moment? Or I1 are the original Germans?

Did I1 got the langauge from R1a and then spread it to R1b, or it was the other way around?
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No, thats old facts, kenN the champion of I HG states ( at July 2013) that I1 originated in pomerania and old-Prussian lands. When it originated there where no germanics or nordics in the area
 
if they where the most northern than I would consider them nordicc,eaither way when they mixed with r1a and r1b and went west was because of Germanic migration,and yes ken knordvedt agrees with that as well.
 
Just looks to me then like a western/southwestern Baltic haplogroup later included in the Germanic peoples for whatever reason.
 
Sile said:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-1809.2007.00429.x/full

Throughout their history, the populations of the Baltic Sea region have been affected by migrations from both Western and Central Europe and from the east. The region was first settled both from the south-east and from the south soon after the retreat of the continental ice sheet some 12 000 years ago.

The most common Y-DNA (paternal) haplogroup among Estonian men is N, found among 34 percent of those tested, followed by R1a, found in about 32 percent. I1 is found in 15%, R1b in 8%, T in 3.5%, I2* and/or I2a in 3%, E1b1b in 2.5%, J2 in 1%, I2b in 0.5%, and Q in 0.5%.
Click to expand...

But Estonians are not Baltic they are Finnic;
So do you mean the non-Indo-European Finnic groups or the Indo-European Baltic groups?


Sile said:
Only areas on the baltic sea ,southern which have low I1 of less than 10% is latvians and lithuanians
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That would be the Indo-European Baltic (Balto-Slavic) groups;
 
old Prussia territory is south east corner of Baltic sea,what does that have to do with finnic Estonia,they got a lot of i1 there right by finland.
 
tjlowery87 said:
old Prussia territory is south east corner of Baltic sea,what does that have to do with finnic Estonia,they got a lot of i1 there right by finland.
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exactly;
however Sile has demonstrated that the modern-day Finnic [non-Indo-European] populations are more I1
than the modern-day Baltic [Indo-European] populations;
however on post #36 and post #40 he concludes that the Indo-European Baltic groups are to be strongly associated with I1;

so what went wrong?
 
Nobody1 said:
exactly;
however Sile has demonstrated that the modern-day Finnic [non-Indo-European] populations are more I1
than the modern-day Baltic [Indo-European] populations;
however on post #36 and post #40 he concludes that the Indo-European Baltic groups are to be strongly associated with I1;

so what went wrong?
Click to expand...

You are far too nationalistic to understand about the ancients, you are the reverse of the slavic theoristes, they claim there never where baltic people from the oder eastwards, only slavic and you are the western germanic theorists who claim everything from Prussia going west was germanic. Both of these groups are always trying to destroy the existanence of any BALTIC people/tribes.

Is Estonia in the BRONZE-AGE map under the term Baltic people or not? YES or NO





So stop deflecting the issue and bringing into play iron-age or modern times this germanic rubbish
 
:LOL:
Sile said:
You are far too nationalistic to understand about the ancients, you are the reverse of the slavic theoristes, they claim there never where baltic people from the oder eastwards, only slavic and you are the western germanic theorists who claim everything from Prussia going west was germanic. Both of these groups are always trying to destroy the existanence of any BALTIC people/tribes.

Is Estonia in the BRONZE-AGE map under the term Baltic people or not? YES or NO





So stop deflecting the issue and bringing into play iron-age or modern times this germanic rubbish
Click to expand...
:LOL:
 
Sile said:
You are far too nationalistic to understand about the ancients, you are the reverse of the slavic theoristes, they claim there never where baltic people from the oder eastwards, only slavic and you are the western germanic theorists who claim everything from Prussia going west was germanic. Both of these groups are always trying to destroy the existanence of any BALTIC people/tribes.
Click to expand...

what you do not understand is - whether Germanic, Baltic or Slavic;
Its All Indo-European;

So if you associate I1 with the Balts you associate it with the Indo-Europeans;

Is that the case?


PS: modern-day Estonians are Finnic; Bronze-age "Estonians" Indo-European Baltic;
do you want to take a guess what happened?
 
Nobody1 said:
what you do not understand is - whether Germanic, Baltic or Slavic;
Its All Indo-European;

So if you associate I1 with the Balts you associate it with the Indo-Europeans;

Is that the case?
Click to expand...

Further deflecting the issue by using Indo-european , I1 as stated and created 4500 years ago is from Baltic lands and peoples.

PS: modern-day Estonians are Finnic; Bronze-age "Estonians" Indo-European Baltic;
do you want to take a guess what happened?
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more deflection - why bring up modern day people ?

Just admit to the existence of the baltic people.
 
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