Politics Turkey's Future

tahir0010

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As the referendum is closing in starting tomorrow what are your opinions on Turkey's future. I am a supporter of Erdoğan, and the AK Parti as I think they have made great accomplishments economically in the country. People criticize Erdoğan, and say that he is a dictator. Atatürk imposed a dress code.... Yet people want to say Erdoğan is a dictator. How? Atatürk imposed a dress code, changed the language, dictated the religion, dictated whether or not women could wear hijab in school, and did nothing for the economy. This sounds more like a dictatorship then what Erdoğan, and Ak Parti has done. Under Erdoğan Turkey now has the fastest growing economy in the world. There export has increased 7 fold. It is one of the fastest growing G20 economies in the world, and is 16th richest country in GDP. Also Erdoğan plan is to be in the top by 2020, and with the economic growth of the g20 it seems this will be a possible goal. As our economy is growing at a tremendously fast rate. Also not a single Turkish bank failed after the credit crunch. Also what makes Anatolians so interesting is that we have combined social conservatism and piety with capitalism and the desire to exploit opportunities from globalization.
 
Erdogan is claiming the last Turkish economical boom for himself, which makes him very popular.
He didn't create that boom, and it is over. Instead he has sewn the seeds of Turkish bankruptcy by financing his megalomane projects and by chasing away foreign investors. He is unable to pay back his debts and I think it will start with a new hyperinflation in Turkey.
In the mean time Erdogan tries to deflect the Turks attention elsewhere by using his agressive rhetoric to the outside world.
He has already eliminated the oposition and the critical press. I hope the Turks won't give him to much to much power, because when pay time will come, he might do some very dangerous moves.
Tell me, did Ataturk also put press and political oponents in jail? Did he also make you nostalgic to the Ottoman Empire?
When Erdogan is finished, Turkey will need a new Ataturk, just like after the bakruptcy of the Ottoman Empire.
 
Down the toilet if they support the dictator Erdogan.
 
@ Tahir

Erdogan is a dangerous man,
in Turkey maybe is the best or the worst according what he does to Turks,
I am not a Turk to attack or to defend him, and if I was a Turk I would vote by the eyes of what he has done
but as concerning him at international level he is dangerous,
his 'big mouth' is isolating Turkey and brings polarization to Europe,

hope the best,
remember, it is Turks who decide the future of Turkey political map/constitution,
not a foreign power,
so hayir or evet, the future historian will write down if it was best or worse, but as a clear decision of Turkish people

but the last year military action against him,
the revence (revenge) acts
the Russia USA Europe diplomatic relations
etc etc is not good for Turkey
Polarization is not a good method,
 
Erdogan is claiming the last Turkish economical boom for himself, which makes him very popular.
He didn't create that boom, and it is over. Instead he has sewn the seeds of Turkish bankruptcy by financing his megalomane projects and by chasing away foreign investors. He is unable to pay back his debts and I think it will start with a new hyperinflation in Turkey.
In the mean time Erdogan tries to deflect the Turks attention elsewhere by using his agressive rhetoric to the outside world.
He has already eliminated the oposition and the critical press. I hope the Turks won't give him to much to much power, because when pay time will come, he might do some very dangerous moves.
Tell me, did Ataturk also put press and political oponents in jail? Did he also make you nostalgic to the Ottoman Empire?
When Erdogan is finished, Turkey will need a new Ataturk, just like after the bakruptcy of the Ottoman Empire.

This is completely false in my opinion Atatürk did was way worse. How many religious scholars were put to death at the hands of that government? How many people were exiled. Why don't you read about the 80,000 Kurds killed in the Dersim Rebellion agains the government, and you want to sit here and criticize Erdogan give me a break. Also you are going to tell me that there has not been a economic rise in Turkey. This has been proven economically that Turkey is one of the strongest G20, and one of the strongest countries GDP wise in the world. Still to this day, and no the boom is not over they are still in the top 10 strongest G20 economies in the world, as of 2017. Also I am editing this part of the post, but Ataturk government controlled the media, so the CHP under the secular constitution I remember Erdogan was jailed of 10 months for reciting a poem, that by the way is taught in public schools. He was jailed for "breaking the secularism of Turkey." So CHP cannot speak about oppression.
 
@ Tahir

Erdogan is a dangerous man,
in Turkey maybe is the best or the worst according what he does to Turks,
I am not a Turk to attack or to defend him, and if I was a Turk I would vote by the eyes of what he has done
but as concerning him at international level he is dangerous,
his 'big mouth' is isolating Turkey and brings polarization to Europe,

hope the best,
remember, it is Turks who decide the future of Turkey political map/constitution,
not a foreign power,
so hayir or evet, the future historian will write down if it was best or worse, but as a clear decision of Turkish people

but the last year military action against him,
the revence (revenge) acts
the Russia USA Europe diplomatic relations
etc etc is not good for Turkey
Polarization is not a good method,

@Yetos I agree with your point no person can say what is good for Turkey who is a not a Turk, as they are not the people living in the country. The people have continued to vote for AK Parti, and Erdogan so it seems that the majority of people in Turkey are happy with him. It would be the same with me trying to discuss politics in Greece. I can see it only from an outside view, and not from a internal prospective. If you do not live in the country it is hard to say what is good for a country. I do not think that secularism was good for the country, and was also extremely oppressive. This is my view, but I can see that the overwhelming majority of turks do support the current government.
 
This is completely false in my opinion Atatürk did was way worse. How many religious scholars were put to death at the hands of that government? How many people were exiled. Why don't you read about the 80,000 Kurds killed in the Dersim Rebellion agains the government, and you want to sit here and criticize Erdogan give me a break.


the number of casualties you cite are grosely exaggerated, it was 14000 maximum, exiled were 12000
and do you know the circumstances under which it happened?
I understand Erdogan offered his sympathy to the victims
when will he recognize the Armenian genocide?
 
@Yetos I agree with your point no person can say what is good for Turkey who is a not a Turk, as they are not the people living in the country. The people have continued to vote for AK Parti, and Erdogan so it seems that the majority of people in Turkey are happy with him. It would be the same with me trying to discuss politics in Greece. I can see it only from an outside view, and not from a internal prospective. If you do not live in the country it is hard to say what is good for a country.

why did you start this thread here on Eupedia then?
 
@Yetos I agree with your point no person can say what is good for Turkey who is a not a Turk, as they are not the people living in the country. The people have continued to vote for AK Parti, and Erdogan so it seems that the majority of people in Turkey are happy with him. It would be the same with me trying to discuss politics in Greece. I can see it only from an outside view, and not from a internal prospective. If you do not live in the country it is hard to say what is good for a country. I do not think that secularism was good for the country, and was also extremely oppressive. This is my view, but I can see that the overwhelming majority of turks do support the current government.
Oh yes we can. See, Europe already experimented with many forms of political and economic systems. We know what works, and what doesn't. Study European history and you will know too.
 
I think he is winning! Huge step forward for Turkey! Big countries like Turkey is hard to govern in parliamentary way! Consensus is not in Southern Europe DNA. Erdogan appears to be a real reformer. Only Germany and England could be run as parliamentarian democracies for the reason of their people being disciplined. Had Italy been a presidential democracy wood have succeeded all Europeans economically for the reason of talented people they have.
 
I think he is winning! Huge step forward for Turkey! Big countries like Turkey is hard to govern in parliamentary way! Consensus is not in Southern Europe DNA. Erdogan appears to be a real reformer. Only Germany and England could be run as parliamentarian democracies for the reason of their people being disciplined. Had Italy been a presidential democracy wood have succeeded all Europeans economically for the reason of talented people they have.

tell me about his reforms
I feel like I'm missing something here
 
I think he is winning! Huge step forward for Turkey! Big countries like Turkey is hard to govern in parliamentary way! Consensus is not in Southern Europe DNA. Erdogan appears to be a real reformer. Only Germany and England could be run as parliamentarian democracies for the reason of their people being disciplined. Had Italy been a presidential democracy wood have succeeded all Europeans economically for the reason of talented people they have.

I think that the choice between parliamentary or presidential republic is worth considering.

It would have been very nice if Erdogan would not have made it a personal choice by declaring his retirement. I think that the presence of Erdogan as a key player has influenced people while the decision will have broad consequences also in the long term (50 - 100 years).

So one question remains: will he candidate for president if the referendum passes? Clearly, if he doesn't it provides huge legitimacy to the process in the public eyes.
 
tell me about his reforms
I feel like I'm missing something here

Don't listen to international propaganda! Turkey is not a liberal democracy, its a conservative democracy! As such you don't expect nudity or legal prostitution, as Canada is for instance! Democracy is not one size fit all! This is their way where the people are asked to express their opinion. All he has to do is surround himself with Harvard educated people and improve the economy.
 
Don't listen to international propaganda! Turkey is not a liberal democracy, its a conservative democracy! As such you don't expect nudity or legal prostitution, as Canada is for instance! Democracy is not one size fit all! This is their way where the people are asked to express their opinion. All he has to do is surround himself with Harvard educated people and improve the economy.

Hahaha

nice joke, :LOL:

All ministers and prime ministers of Greece had Harvard or Yale consouls
and many of them finished Harvard
and the result you can see it,
take Harvard and Yale educated and in ten years you destroy the country :bored:

i go to wash my mouth and hands,
I spell and wrote evil words
 
so, no reforms

No there are many reforms. I will include all the policies that will change from the referendum. Which was very close, and was a real nail bitter.
1Article 9The judiciary is required to act on condition of impartiality.
2Article 75The number of seats in the Parliament is raised from 550 to 600.
3Article 76The age requirement to stand as a candidate in an election to be lowered from 25 to 18, while the condition of having to complete compulsory military service is to be removed. Individuals with relations to the military would be ineligible to run for election.
4Article 77Parliamentary terms are extended from four to five years. Parliamentary and presidential elections will be held on the same day every five years, with presidential elections going to a run-off if no candidate wins a simple majority in the first round.
5Article 87The functions of Parliament are
  • Making, changing, removing laws.
  • Accepting international contracts.
  • Discuss, increase or decrease budget (on Budget Commission) and accept or reject the budget on General Assembly.
  • Appoint 7 members of HSYK
  • And using other powers written in the constitution
5Article 89To overcome a presidential veto, the Parliament needs to adopt the same bill with an absolute majority (301).
6Article 98Parliament now detects cabinet and Vice President with Parliamentary Research, Parliamentary Investigation, General Discussion and Written Question. Interpellation is abolished and replaced with Parliamentary Investigation. VP needs to answer Written Questions within 15 days.
7Article 101In order to stand as a presidential candidate, an individual requires the endorsement of one or more parties that won 5% or more in the preceding parliamentary elections and 100,000 voters. The elected president no longer needs to terminate their party membership if they have one.
8Article 104The President becomes both the head of state and head of government, with the power to appoint and sack ministers and VP. The president can issue decrees about executive. If legislation makes a law about the same topic that President issued an executive order, decree will become invalid and parliamentary law become valid.
9Article 105Parliament can open parliamentary investigation with an absolute majority (301). Parliament discusses proposal in 1 month. Following the completion of Discussion, Parliamentary investigation can begin in Parliament with a hidden three-fifths (360) vote in favor. Following the completion of investigations, the parliament can vote to indict the President with a hidden two-thirds (400) vote in favor.
10Article 106The President can appoint one or more Vice Presidents. If the Presidency falls vacant, then fresh presidential elections must be held within 45 days. If parliamentary elections are due within less than a year, then they too are held on the same day as early presidential elections. If the parliament has over a year left before its term expires, then the newly elected president serves until the end of the parliamentary term, after which both presidential and parliamentary elections are held. This does not count towards the President's two-term limit. Parliamentary investigations into possible crimes committed by Vice Presidents and ministers can begin in Parliament with a three-fifths vote in favor. Following the completion of investigations, the parliament can vote to indict Vice Presidents or ministers with a two-thirds vote in favor. If found guilty, the Vice President or minister in question is only removed from office if their crime is one that bars them from running for election. If a sitting MP is appointed as a minister or Vice President, their parliamentary membership will be terminated.
11Article 116The President and three-fifths of the Parliament can decide to renew elections. In this case, the enactor also dissolves itself until elections.
12Article 119The President's ability to declare state of emergency is now subject to parliamentary approval to take effect. The Parliament can extend, remove or shorten it. States of emergency can be extended for up to four months at a time except during war, where no such limitation will be required. Every presidential decree issues during a state of emergency will need an approval of Parliament.
13Article 125The acts of the President are now subject to judicial review.
13Article 142Military courts are abolished unless they are erected to investigate actions of soldiers under conditions of war.
13Article 146The President used to appoint one Justice from High Military Court of Appeals, and one from the High Military Administrative Court. As military courts are abolished, the number of Justices in the Constitutional Court reduced to 15 from 17. Consequently, presidential appointees reduced to 12 from 14, while the Parliament continues to appoint three.
14Article 159Supreme Board of Judges and Prosecutors is renamed to "Board of Judges and Prosecutors", members are reduced to 13 from 22, departments are reduced to 2 from 3. 4 members are appointed by President, 7 will be appointed by the Grand Assembly. Supreme Board of Judges and Prosecutors (HSYK) candidates will need to get 2/3 (400) votes to pass first round and will need 3/5 (360) votes in second round to be a member of HSYK.(Other 2 members are Justice Minister and Ministry of Justice Undersecretary, which is unchanged).
15Article 161President proposes fiscal budget to Grand Assembly 75 days prior to fiscal new year. Budget Commission members can make changes to budget but Parliamentary members cannot make proposals to change public expenditures. If the budget is not approved, then a temporary budget will be proposed. If the temporary budget is also not approved, the previous year's budget would be used with the previous year's increment ratio.[note 1]
16Several articlesAdaptation of several articles of the constitution with other changes, mainly transferring executive powers of cabinet to President
16Article 123President gets power to create States.
17Temporary Article 21Next presidential and General elections will be held on 3 November 2019. If Grand Assembly decides early elections, both will be held at the same day. Board of Judges and Prosecutors elections will be made within 30 days of approval of this law. Military courts will be abolished once the law comes into force.
18Applicability of amendments 1-17The amendments (2, 4 and 7) will come into force after new elections, other amendments (except temporary article) will come into force once newly elected president swears. Annulled the article which elected Presidents loses their memberships in a political party. This constitutional amendment will be voted in a referendum as a whole.
 
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The BBC is a nice feature article about the reforms proposed by the referendum. Here are the key points.

1. Prime minster role scrapped, new vice president role created

2. President becomes head of government as well as state, and can retain political party ties

3. President given sweeping powers, with ability to enact laws by decree and dismiss parliament

4. Parliament no longer able to scrutinise ministers

5. Parliament given limited powers to investigate or impeach president


Sounds like all the steps needed toward dictatorship.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/Erdogans_Turkey
 
The BBC is a nice feature article about the reforms proposed by the referendum. Here are the key points.

1. Prime minster role scrapped, new vice president role created

2. President becomes head of government as well as state, and can retain political party ties

3. President given sweeping powers, with ability to enact laws by decree and dismiss parliament

4. Parliament no longer able to scrutinise ministers

5. Parliament given limited powers to investigate or impeach president


Sounds like all the steps needed toward dictatorship.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/Erdogans_Turkey
And presidential election is only every 12 years, right?
 
Correct, but I do not think that is a big issue, as the people have continued to elect Ak Parti, and even though Ak Parti won 51 percent to 48 it was the difference of a million votes, and the entire population did not vote I think the voters were only at 48 Million and Turkey has inside a population of 75 million. The people still chose the referendum. The people I believe will reelect Erdogan. As you can see from this referendum people in Turkey are happy with him.
 

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