U5a2a

[Peura]

Hi, new to the forum.

Is anybody interested in talking about U5a2a (or any U5a2 -family)? To get the ball rolling, I learned today that the oldest found remains for this HG was at Hohlenstein-Stadel, Germany, 8,700 YBP, and more recently, at Damsbo, Denmark, 4,200 YBP. The latter is an Iron Age/Viking/Pagan burial ground. See: PLOS web page (soz, can't link.)

The former is Cro-Magnon (see wiki - soz, I am unable to post link, being new.)

The Danish study seems to be a quite recent one. They were trying to ascertain who was local and who a newcomer. In addition, they compared the DNA of present day Danes in the area, with those found on the dig. IIRC U5a2a remains apx 20% today. However, Damsbo, being Iron Age/Viking is relatively recent and dated between 800-1,000 AD, with no signs of Christianity at this site, in terms of uniform direction of burial, and with lots of Viking style grave goods, almost always knives, and perhaps glass or amber beads, trefoil brooches and belt buckles.

Anyone interested in this HG?

I note there has been a new subclade proposed for U5a2a* called Group B. Thoughts? Comments?

 

[Fire Haired14]

Gail Tonnesen belongs to U5a2a, is an admin of the FTDNA U5 project, and probably knows more about U5a2a than anyone. Here's his email: [email protected]. Also here's the FTDNA U5 project page.

There's in total six U5a2 samples from Mesolithic France and Germany, one from Mesolithic Russia, and one from Mesolithic Sweden. See here.

As far as I know most modern European U5a2a belongs to a single subclade and this sublcade (probably)originated in Russia and spread into the rest of Europe 5,000-4,000 years ago. So, most U5a2a came into Europe with the "Steppe"(coast of Black and Caspien sea and land just north of it) migration that brought Y DNA R1 and probably Indo European languages. Gail told me once that there are also other types of U5a2a in Europe which have (non-Russian)local Mesolithic origins.

That's the distant big picture origin of your maternal line(mtDNA). Of course it has a long history after that and before it.

 

[Peura]

Gail Tonnesen belongs to U5a2a, is an admin of the FTDNA U5 project, and probably knows more about U5a2a than anyone. Here's his email: [cannot link]. Also here's the [cannot link]

There's in total six U5a2 samples from Mesolithic France and Germany, one from Mesolithic Russia, and one from Mesolithic Sweden. See [cannot link]

As far as I know most modern European U5a2a belongs to a single subclade and this sublcade (probably)originated in Russia and spread into the rest of Europe 5,000-4,000 years ago. So, most U5a2a came into Europe with the "Steppe"(coast of Black and Caspien sea and land just north of it) migration that brought Y DNA R1 and probably Indo European languages. Gail told me once that there are also other types of U5a2a in Europe which have (non-Russian)local Mesolithic origins.

That's the distant big picture origin of your maternal line(mtDNA). Of course it has a long history after that and before it.

That's really interesting Fire Haired14. I always thought Finno-Ugric roots - and of course, we have to be careful not to confuse language with culture/'race' - originated from the east-west divide of the Ural mountains (hence the term Uralic peoples). I always visualised a movement from east to west from the Urals, so a move from south to north across the steppes from the Black Sea and Caspian is another way of seeing it.

In my least squares population breakdown at GEDMATCH I was baffled to see terms like , 'Moldavia', 'Croatia', 'Tatar', Austria, South Poland, Ukraine, Russia' , and even Chuvash (had to look that up!) at #20 - I guess that would be the south to north movement.

Whilst that breakdown made little sense to me, and was complete news, the two populations breakdown was incredibly accurate, successfully pinpointing 'South West Finland, which matches my family tree over the last four hundred years, at least. Most of my matches on 23andme seem to have Finnish names, so possibly moved as a tribe.

So if that's accurate....

I will look up your links, thanks.

 

[BackToTheForests]

I am U5a2 haplo, oldest known remains were of the Cheddar Man in England. Makes a bit of sense for me, my mother has always claimed Irish ancestry but that doesn't mean that her ancestors didn't make the jump from England. From my research they were around while Ireland was uninhabited, I don't know if it pertains to you directly but look into Creswellian culture.